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  1. Old Comment
    Anenome's Avatar

    I miss Everquest.

    With WoW, the lower level charrie does get more experience for killing equal or higher level enemies.

    Well, it's more than the higher level player gets less experience. Of course, at max level there's no need to even think about that.

    So, to make your system work all you'd need to do is not reward players for turning in a quest. But that's the majority of XP gained in WoW. Questing is worth a lot more xp than simply killing monsters, and it's like that for a reason.

    The reason is the lottery-like addiction psychology of questing. Just killing monsters is fine, but questing adds a narrative structure to that, giving you a beginning, middle, and end, giving you a purpose, a reason for going and killing those monsters, and rewarding you for doing it.

    The sort of experience you're asking for is the kind that I've found only at max level when going into dungeons.

    It sounds like you haven't played WoW at max level, but I assure you that's exactly what you find. It's that same "hey this was fun, let's do it again" and all you're doing is fighting monsters.

    As a tank in that game, for my guild, a top tank, and a paladin tank especially, I was highly sought after for doing heroic dungeons with a few friends after the nightly raid.

    Those were easily the best times I had They weren't always very challenging, although having a paladin tank made it easier, and more challenging in different ways.

    Actually, paladins changed tanking in WoW because all the other tanks wanted mass threat ability too, and they eventually got it, but I digress.

    Questing isn't even something that lasted very long in my WoW experience. You can only level a charrie to max xp, after that it's dungeons and gear. Heck, I helped level a lot of people with my max level character just to hang out with them, that's the best of both worlds in a whole lot of ways.

    And then WoW introduced daily quests and the like, and we'd all do that together.

    I get it though, we all like what we're used to. You were "raised" on EQ. But EQ isn't something you can play casually. WoW succeeds because it made an EQ-like experience available to the casual player.

    I mean, I considered many 25 man raids unreasonably difficult. But they were still easier than the old 50 man raids. And EQ had, what, 200 man raids? That's completely ridiculous :P The fact that a single healer being late could doom the whole raid, and that you had to setup complicated healing macros to individually message people and wait for your healing rotation in order to be exactly on time is craziness.

    Still, now they have 10 man raids. They keep dialing the difficulty down in order to increase participation.

    I see no reason why they can't add another layer of difficulty too. They should never have removed the 50 man raids.
    Posted 05-08-2010 at 11:30 PM by Anenome Anenome is offline
  2. Old Comment

    I miss Everquest.

    You're bringing up some good points there.

    Originally Posted by Anenome View Comment
    I often made characters to level with someone that only got played when that person was leveling, and would keep that as a side alt. That's the compromise position.
    Being a cooperative player, this bugs me to no end, though. See, the EQ System worked this way: If you're within a few levels of each other, the players with the lower level get *more* experience. So everything evens out. Not so with a quest system, even moreso if not everyone is able to participate in the quest. Maybe a viable compromise would be to reward helping players with experience (not the full amount, but worth the effort), even if they do not 'have' the quest.

    Then there's the other part. I'm a explorer/adventurer type. I want to have fun playing a game. Remembering 'hey that [whatever] was fun the last time, let's do that again'. Impossible with quests again, you have to follow the virtual cookie trail .
    Posted 05-08-2010 at 03:27 AM by Strider Strider is offline
  3. Old Comment
    Anenome's Avatar

    I miss Everquest.

    That's true, but it's almost always possible to help them do a quest you've already done. So there's that.

    I often made characters to level with someone that only got played when that person was leveling, and would keep that as a side alt. That's the compromise position.

    Although, the new phasing reality system WoW put in with FT makes helping characters with a quest you've already done literally impossible :P

    Still, I met a lot of cool people grouping up for quests I needed done. And the new LFG system makes that a thousand times easier than it was when I was playing actively. Arguably you meet more new friends under the current system than you'd lose with its splintering, as you put it.

    Lastly, once the real game begins at max level you're all in the game together no matter what. Everyone levels at different speeds, that always gonna be true. Hell, I leveled as a ret pally never realizing just how slow it really was. Thank god I never played a DPS class until later. In fact, when I went protection as a pally I was able to kill things faster by doing it all in a giant group of enemies, killing 20+ at the same time was faster than being ret trying to kill one at a time :P

    So, you can still play with your friends as long as you're doing it at max level.
    Posted 05-07-2010 at 02:59 PM by Anenome Anenome is offline
  4. Old Comment

    I miss Everquest.

    Well, doing different quests is an illusion. It's all the same anyway (kill this deliver that) you might as well have them either randomly generated for a given group or not have them at all, both ensuring far greater flexibility. However, my point still stands - the current system(s) are not helping groups, rather tearing them apart.

    Yes, EQ was too 'hardcore', I agree completely. Nonwithstanding that playing Everquest I could simply play with my friends, and that's not possible in any current MMORPG.
    Posted 05-07-2010 at 02:41 PM by Strider Strider is offline
  5. Old Comment
    Anenome's Avatar

    I miss Everquest.

    However, since everyone wants the best exp/time ratio, of course everyone (including me) attends to quests. This is where it goes bad. Every of your characters will sooner or later do the same quests you already know. So it gets pretty dull too. But not only that, you have to follow that cookie trail and are very restricted in what you actually can do.
    Ya, but there's so many quests that you could level at least two characters without doing the same quests. Well, all the race start areas will get you to about level 10 or 20 without doing the same quest area.

    I finally want excitement again! Not following a fixed path everyone has tread through. Players discovering what they're capable of, not pressing the same 5 buttons without thinking every fight.
    Ya, my old WoW guild leader was a hardcore EQ guy too, I've heard many of the same stories you tell here at length.

    You had to be hard-core to succeed at EQ. I've never played it, but it all seemed like too much. It's not good to have to be an addict to succeed at the game. People can at least hold a job and still be a good WoW player :P
    Posted 05-07-2010 at 03:48 AM by Anenome Anenome is offline

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