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-   -   Epic Games acquires Rocket League developer Psyonix (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=260275)

Evil Avatar 05-01-2019 07:43 PM

Epic Games acquires Rocket League developer Psyonix
 

Quote:

Psyonix is Joining the Epic Family!

Today is a big day for us here at Psyonix because, just as the headline says, we’re officially joining the Epic Games family.

Your first question to news like this might be, "What does this mean for Rocket League and its community?" We’re happy to say that the answers are only positive. Rocket League always has been and always will be a community-driven game, and now that we have joined forces with Epic, we will be able to serve our community in even bigger and better ways!
rocketleague.com.

brandonjclark 05-01-2019 09:28 PM

Nooooooooo!

Rocket League is dear to my heart. I've never spent so much time playing a game with the family. Hell, I've never enjoyed a game more.

It has that perfect balance of gameplay, competition and fun.

Since launch it has been on a well-curated island in the capable hands of Psyonix. Now, despite the obvious nodding benefits, it will be exposed. Hell, it might even become MORE popular.

I will wish it well in the future, but with the knowledge I got to bang it BEFORE it was hot.

Also, what happens to my Steam account RL game? Will I have to rebuy it on that shifty Epic store now in order to see any benefits? Probably.

Scherge 05-02-2019 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brandonjclark (Post 2536636)
I will wish it well in the future, but with the knowledge I got to bang it BEFORE it was hot.

Really? You've played "Supersonic Acrobatic Rocket-Powered Battle-Cars"? Wow, I've never met an actual person who did that!

Seriously, "Rocket League" was "hot" from the minute it launched, because of their PS+ deal with Sony. From then, it was just a matter of all-my-friends-are-playing-it-maybe-I-should-give-it-a-try-to-fit-in syndrome.

I admit I was surprised to hear about this acquisition, but it fits Epic's MO: They're buying goodwill. People are still spending ridiculous amounts of money on "Fortnite BR", and Epic puts the money to good use.

Quote:

Also, what happens to my Steam account RL game? Will I have to rebuy it on that shifty Epic store now in order to see any benefits? Probably.
I really wonder where all that hate towards Epic stems from. As far as I know, they haven't taken anything away from anyone, ever. This is not like when Amazon removed "1984" (of all the books in the world, it had to be this one) from every owner's Kindle list. It's like "The Last Guardian" being announced for PS3, but eventually released on PS4. Yeah, it sucks that you have to buy a new console, but Sony didn't come to your house and rip the Blu-ray out of your PS3 while you were playing the game...

Meusli 05-02-2019 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scherge (Post 2536644)

I really wonder where all that hate towards Epic stems from. As far as I know, they haven't taken anything away from anyone, ever.

The one thing I love about PC gaming is that no one owns it, its a free platform that anyone can develop for.It was on it's arse a fair few years ago and Valve saved it in my opinion, I owe them that loyalty. This eco system, to me, is being threatened by some big players, first it was Facebook and their Oculus exclusives and now we see Epic embark on a similar trajectory of exclusivity. While not exactly the same method I will not be forced on to another platform by them buying stuff away from Steam, I find it quite abhorrent. I might be speaking in hyperbole but I have been around the block a few times to see where all this exclusivity is heading and I don't like it.

Scherge 05-02-2019 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meusli (Post 2536646)
The one thing I love about PC gaming is that no one owns it, its a free platform that anyone can develop for.

I do understand your sentiment and agree with most of the other stuff you wrote, but I take issue with this sentence, because it's simply wrong from a customer's point of view. As a customer, I don't care that everyone and their hamster can develop for a platform. What's important to me is that I own the software are free to use it however I see fit, and that's no longer possible on PC. In fact, it has become an absurdly restricted platform. Want to buy a new version of "Office"? How about a yearly subscription that you can only install on one PC? Want to use "Photoshop" without an online registration? Good luck with that! Want to play "Elite: Dangerous" or "Diablo III" by yourself on your offline gaming rig? Hah! It's a brave new world, and it was Valve's success that made all of this possible.

I was never a big PC gamer myself (Amiga and consoles mostly), but I stopped playing Valve games altogether for a few years when "Half-Life 2" came out. I even had a copy sent to me by a friend at Sierra/Vivendi/Universal/Havas/Cendant/whatever they were called at the time on launch day. Then it tried to force me into giving up my personal data and set up an online account with some American company headed by an ex-Microsoft man. "Screw them", I thought. I eventually bought "The Orange Box" for Xbox 360, because I urgently wanted to play "Portal", but I haven't tried HL2 to this day. So, yes: Exclusivity on an otherwise open platform sucks! I just don't understand why Epic gets all the hate. They're no more aggressive than Valve was when they screwed over Vivendi with their brilliant contract, or bought up studios that developed games with their engine (another similarity to Epic) and published those.

Sorry about the rant. The way I see it, Steam, Epic, Origin, Uplay and Battle.net are becoming separate PC platforms at this point, while others like GOG, Humble Bundle or Discord may try to stay neutral, but will get crushed unless they develop their own gimmick (sell DRM-free games/offer keys for other platforms/bundle a subscription with a popular chat tool). With these meta-platforms drifting further apart, new claims will be staked. Either PC gamers accept the idea of having a multitude of game launchers installed on their machine, or we'll see the PC version of the console wars.

And to return to the original topic: So far, we haven't seen any purchased games being revoked on Steam due to an Epic exclusivity deal. I'm fairly certain this will never happen, because it would cause a bunch of legal problems (and even bigger shitstorms), and neither Epic nor Valve want to direct more attention to the DRM situation than absolutely necessary...

Tolgar 05-02-2019 06:50 AM

Unfortunately, they ARE removing rocket league from purchase on steam later in the year, probably future dlc as well. Or not, seeing as you can't even purchase DLC on Epicfail's storefront yet. Even EA, when they went full Origin, kept the games up that were already on Steam, just went future forward. This stuff is a new low in PC gaming, and the folks that defend it think it will change Steam. No, BOTH companies have fuck you money.

Fortnite is huge and they obviously have the cash reserves to slap publishers with wads of bills to get them to fuck with the PC landscape in such a fashion. Imagine if minecraft had shipped with lootboxes back in the day. They could have probably bought Microsoft instead of the other way around lol. The folks playing it really don't care about what else is on the launcher though, hell I've heard that the vast majority are on mobile/console ANYWAY. This is just shrill little Tim's revenge porn and we are all soggy tissues to him.

Scherge 05-02-2019 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tolgar (Post 2536655)
This is just shrill little Tim's revenge porn and we are all soggy tissues to him.

A beautiful mental image! :D

Tolgar 05-02-2019 07:58 AM

They are trying to clarify their position but it still is super vague.

From Eurogamer
"In a new statement issued to US Gamer, however, Epic has said, "We are continuing to sell Rocket League on Steam, and have not announced plans to stop selling the game there...Rocket League remains available for new purchasers on Steam, and long-term plans will be announced in the future." All of which feels a lot like a game of semantic evasion, but for now the takeaway is that Rocket League may or may not continue to be sold on Steam post its Epic Games Store debut. Make of that what you will."

So basically, wait till it debuts on Epic store, where they probably just hope we'll have forgotten all of this by then.

Scherge 05-02-2019 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tolgar (Post 2536661)
So basically, wait till it debuts on Epic store, where they probably just hope we'll have forgotten all of this by then.

Just so there's no misunderstanding: brandonjclark's fear was that the game could be REMOVED from his Steam account. That's what I was commenting on. Of course, Epic might cease to sell the game on Steam at some point, but
a) that's usually not what happens with multi-platform products (see "Minecraft"), and
b) the game's been out for almost 4 years now, and it has been on sale quite a few times already. I can understand people with a huge Steam library being reluctant to "abandon" their collection by adding another launcher to their Start menu, but if they haven't bought RL by now, I'd argue they're not even remotely interested in the title. And if they DON'T have a Steam account/library/friends list yet, then I don't see the reason to get all emotional (AKA mourning Betamax).

In my opinion, people should simply buy the games they're interested in, no matter what platform they're on - especially if the platform costs are zero.

Mozain 05-02-2019 10:13 AM

As always, my issue with Epic is the lack of features we have come to expect (they are buying exclusivity instead of competing directly with a superior product), and primarily the price increase of games due to no local currency.

Until things change I can't support this model Epic is going for.

PatrickRes9 05-02-2019 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mozain (Post 2536668)
As always, my issue with Epic is the lack of features we have come to expect (they are buying exclusivity instead of competing directly with a superior product), and primarily the price increase of games due to no local currency.

Until things change I can't support this model Epic is going for.

Exact same sentiment. Im a "power user" and I need the features Steam provides. Im not going to support an inferior product.

Now, I have Rocket League on steam, I have ALL of the DLC, and have purchased 2 of the Rocket Passes. My worry is NOT that the game will disappear off of steam being that I already own it. Im certain it will still be there.

It will be losing out on future updates and DLC once it's on EPIC, and I am NOT rebuying all of that content. I'll likely quit Rocket League permanently if/when there's a Rocket Pass or DLC i really want that I can't get on the Steam platform.

MavenACTG 05-02-2019 03:26 PM

Epic is the new EA. Calling it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mozain (Post 2536668)
As always, my issue with Epic is the lack of features we have come to expect (they are buying exclusivity instead of competing directly with a superior product), and primarily the price increase of games due to no local currency.

Until things change I can't support this model Epic is going for.

When you compete, you have to leverage what you have. Exclusivity is shitty to the general consumer but great for the publisher and "it depends" for the developer. Epic can't fight Steam on features or library, so I don't see what other outcome you were expecting.

If a theater is competing against the other guy, who had first-to-market advantage and simply has you outgunned on capital, that theater might as well show shit the other guy won't (can't, in this case) to build/maintain an audience. Exclusivity is like its own form of marketing expenditure, but for the platform, not the product.

I guess that's a long way of saying you would do exactly the same in the same set of circumstances.

vallor 05-02-2019 04:34 PM

This must have cost Epic a great deal. However Epic and Psyonix have been close partners for years so I think it makes a lot of sense. I do worry about Epic's track record with owned studios, which is shit.

They failed with Impossible Creatures, they failed with People Can Fly, they only succeeded with Chair because Chair does it's own thing. If Epic starts muddling around with Rocket League then I would start to worry again.

Evil Avatar 05-02-2019 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavenACTG (Post 2536687)
Epic is the new EA. Calling it.

While Epic is still making a metric fuck-ton of money from Fortnite, that gravy train isn't going to last forever.

Plus, I imagine that since they are owned by some Chinese company a lot of that profits flew right out the door into the waiting arms of the people who owned them.

From the article I linked to a few days ago, it sounds like they put everything else on hold to support Fortnite. So what will they do when Fortnite up and disappears? Hope that by then Steam has gone away and everyone has moved to the Epic store?

Good luck with that.

Remember, these are the people who didn't want to make Fortnite in the first place and put it on hold for like 3 years to make that other stupid pay-to-win MOBA -- the one that pretty much died on day 1 and is totally gone now.

And Fortnite didn't even ship with Battle Royale, they only added it after the fact when Fortnite was struggling.

I'm not saying they are going anywhere, but they don't seem like much of a forward-thinking company.

I'll add one more thought, I don't think you can buy your way to success. Microsoft did that with the Xbox 360 and it worked for a little while, but it didn't last. The AAA companies they bought cranked out nothing but average games after they were purchased and then died off and disappeared. Look at Minecraft, MS paid some massive amount of money for it and has done nothing with the franchise since then. Yes, they "own" Minecraft, but at this point who cares?

I see the same thing with Epic here... remember when they bought out People Can Fly? Where is that deal now? How did it work out in the long run? They paid a lot of money and got nothing.

vallor 05-02-2019 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Avatar (Post 2536695)
Plus, I imagine that since they are owned by some Chinese company a lot of that profits flew right out the door into the waiting arms of the people who owned them.

I believe you are incorrect. Tencent owns part of Epic however, unlike Riot I last I heard the majority stake of Epic is still owned by Tim Sweeny and several other partners. You should stop saying this unless you have a source that says Tencent has converted to a majority or full owner of Epic.

Evil Avatar 05-02-2019 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vallor (Post 2536701)
I believe you are incorrect. Tencent owns part of Epic however, unlike Riot I last I heard the majority stake of Epic is still owned by Tim Sweeny and several other partners. You should stop saying this unless you have a source that says Tencent has converted to a majority or full owner of Epic.

Tencent owns 48.4% of Epic games, so I'm pretty sure it is fair to say that a lot of the Fortnite profits went right to that company.

Mozain 05-03-2019 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavenACTG (Post 2536687)
Epic is the new EA. Calling it.

When you compete, you have to leverage what you have. Exclusivity is shitty to the general consumer but great for the publisher and "it depends" for the developer. Epic can't fight Steam on features or library, so I don't see what other outcome you were expecting.

If a theater is competing against the other guy, who had first-to-market advantage and simply has you outgunned on capital, that theater might as well show shit the other guy won't (can't, in this case) to build/maintain an audience. Exclusivity is like its own form of marketing expenditure, but for the platform, not the product.

I guess that's a long way of saying you would do exactly the same in the same set of circumstances.

To say that Epic lacks capital to compete on their store front is... Well I don't know where to begin with that. It's just wrong? They have the money. What they lack is the time and experience, so they are trying to make up for that with very clearly anti-consumer moves.

Your theatre analogy fails (as all analogies do) because this isn't a threatre (steam) refusing to show (sell) a film and Epic coming in and offering them a home. This is a store that you've been going to for years for a product, that has features you like (clean, cheap, wide aisles, whatever), and a price point you agree with, and another store coming in, buying that product wholesale and saying "Come to my smelly, dimly lit, hobo infested hole and buy the product you like... Only we made it more expensive!"

At least it's like that for me. Again I've said many times the lack of features and local currency is a huge part of my dislike of this whole thing. It's simply an inferior product for the consumer, so I have no idea why someone would support it except some weird, altruistic, "Gotta support the devs at all costs!" mentality.

But I'll never favor developers over customers. Put out a good product and I'll buy it. Put out a shitty product and well... Maybe I'll still buy it, but that's on me for falling for it! ^_^

Terran 05-03-2019 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Avatar (Post 2536702)
Tencent owns 48.4% of Epic games, so I'm pretty sure it is fair to say that a lot of the Fortnite profits went right to that company.

So many Western developers have prostituted themselves out to Tencent, lol. Grinding Gear Games did the same, calling it an "investment" when Tencent bought 80-ish% of the company, lol. :rolleyes:

vallor 05-04-2019 12:45 AM

I am sure many of you know Western companies need to be sponsored by a Chinese company to do business in China. Many times the cost to sponsor is a bite of the company unless the company has a hit game they are moving to the chinese market (ala PUBG).

This is why you see so many game companies owned or partially owned by big Chinese companies. Then, once the developers get a taste of the cash available, just like any company which has suckled at the teat of a very generous publisher after scraping and scrabbling so long to make sure they can make payroll and give out good bonuses, they start thinking "wow, this sure is a lot of work... be nice just to be taken care of for a change. Especially since our last game wasn't such a big hit. There sure are a lot of users in China and even a modest selling title would be some serious bank and it will only cost a small % plus we'd get a cash infusion."

Next thing you know you've given up 10%, 20%, 48.4%, or 80% of your company to Tencent. Eventually, if your name is Riot, Tencent wears you down by offering bigger and bigger piles of money and just gobbles up the rest.

Cranium 05-04-2019 04:50 AM

Unless the unlikely contingency of Epic's Chinese owners being out to actively destroy Rocket League, I'm not so worried about this takeover. There's a rock solid successful formula that's persisted and grown for years here, like... Coca Cola strength. It's not a wizkid developer with the promise of future games at stake, just the management of a very proven product. Epic's not buying Psyonix as much as they're buying Rocket League.

It hasn't been mentioned here (and I don't have a source link) but I've seen plenty reports of Epic planning to 'continue to support RL on Steam for those who have already made the purchase there'. I'd think future purchases would be limited to their own store though, for that store's lifespan.

Grats to Dave Hagewood for closing the deal on what must surely be the most financially successful mod story ever though. Hope Tim takes good care of his baby - think it might do a good job on the farm, unless abused.


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