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-   -   Game of Thrones Season 8 Trailer Shows the Beginning of the End (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259153)

Evil Avatar 03-05-2019 08:54 AM

Game of Thrones Season 8 Trailer Shows the Beginning of the End
 


The final season
4.14

Chief Smash 03-05-2019 09:01 AM

At this point, I'm watching because my wife wants to watch it together and out of the most mild of curiosity to see how it ends. I haven't really had a very high opinion of this series (in book or show) since the first season/book.

Evil Avatar 03-05-2019 09:09 AM

If this was Martin writing the book, the Night King would win and kill everyone. His whole idea behind the series was that it was the anti-Lord of the Rings. The Hero always loses, the bad guy almost always wins and in the end the Mega Evil is going to run right over all of you and make all the petty squabbling and in-fighting seem like it was just a waste of time.

I doubt the TV writers will have the same gravitas to pull off what Martin would have done (Or will do if he ever gets around to writing books again.).

Mad Max RW 03-05-2019 10:32 AM

I stopped watching after the second season partly because of my fiancé wanting to read the final unreleased book before continuing and also after reading the books I feel like watching it is a chore. So many episodes and what’s filmed is still an abridged version. I recently got my hands on the original Polish single season Witcher tv show from the early 2000s. Putting aside the heinous cgi (thank god it’s used very sparingly) the stories are very faithful adaptations of the early books.

brandonjclark 03-05-2019 10:51 AM

Screw all those previous posters, ha!

I LOVE this series and I can't wait to finish it!

Chimpbot 03-05-2019 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Avatar (Post 2532188)
If this was Martin writing the book, the Night King would win and kill everyone. His whole idea behind the series was that it was the anti-Lord of the Rings. The Hero always loses, the bad guy almost always wins and in the end the Mega Evil is going to run right over all of you and make all the petty squabbling and in-fighting seem like it was just a waste of time.

I think that's a pretty big misunderstanding of how he structured the series. He avoided the "good vs evil" conventions as portrayed in Tolkienian fantasy, instead opting for more moral grey areas and ambiguity. It's less about evil, nasty orcs and glowing, statuesque elves than it is about the concept of "the hero on one side of the story is the villain of the other side of the story".

It's not just about the heroes always losing and the bad guys always winning; it's an exceptionally simplistic view and a pretty gross misinterpretation of the material. It's also bad storytelling, to one degree or another.

Quote:

I doubt the TV writers will have the same gravitas to pull off what Martin would have done (Or will do if he ever gets around to writing books again.).
He's consistently referred to the ending as bittersweet, which certainly doesn't imply the Night's King will simply run roughshod over everyone and win outright. In reference to A Dream of Spring and the ending of the story, he explicitly said, "I'm not going to tell you how I'm going to end my book, but I suspect the overall flavor is going to be as much bittersweet as it is happy."

The heroes will likely win, but it won't be a happy victory. It very well could be a Pyrrhic victory, at best.

shadow763 03-05-2019 11:50 AM

Are the odds in favor of him actually finishing the book series or dying beforehand?

Chief Smash 03-05-2019 01:27 PM

If he goes at his current pace, I doubt he’ll finish unless he alters the number of books he has lined up.

As for avoiding the good vs evil idea, I’m not sure he was too successful there. The human characters tend to run grey though not always. Daenerys makes a lot of dumb moves but characters like Jon Snow or Samwell Tarly are on the very light side of gray, if not white. And of course it’s pretty hard to see the Night King as anything but morally black at this point. In fact, he’s a pretty shallow villain at this point from what little we know.

Terran 03-05-2019 01:30 PM

I'm all in, but I agree with Evil that if the story was based on Martin's own continuing ideas the Night King would win and winter would fall for good.

As someone who hasn't read the books, I can tell you with almost complete certainty where the Martin plot line ended and Hollywood's began. There was a clear change from 'major characters shockingly dying' to 'everyone big seems to be surviving.' I'm sure a few will die off in the ending season, but let's be honest, if an army of the undead attacked and could create MORE UNDEAD as it killed the living army, you wouldn't win. You'd lose.

And that's not going to happen. Unless HBO suddenly develops cast iron balls.

Still, it's been such a blast that I'll be subscribing to HBO for a few months to watch it. Can't wait.

Dag-Sabot 03-05-2019 03:09 PM

I'm always up for some fan fiction.

Evil Avatar 03-05-2019 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terran (Post 2532215)
I'm all in, but I agree with Evil that if the story was based on Martin's own continuing ideas the Night King would win and winter would fall for good.

As someone who hasn't read the books, I can tell you with almost complete certainty where the Martin plot line ended and Hollywood's began. There was a clear change from 'major characters shockingly dying' to 'everyone big seems to be surviving.' I'm sure a few will die off in the ending season, but let's be honest, if an army of the undead attacked and could create MORE UNDEAD as it killed the living army, you wouldn't win. You'd lose.

And that's not going to happen. Unless HBO suddenly develops cast iron balls.

Still, it's been such a blast that I'll be subscribing to HBO for a few months to watch it. Can't wait.

To be fair, the premise of the story is that at some time in the past we did beat the Night King back and then we used magic to build a wall between us and him.

However, back then they had Dragons and Magic, two things that are in pretty short supply in the current storyline.

I totally agree with your assessment, you can immediately tell where Martin's story ended and the HBO writers took over. Suddenly, the good guys seem to be winning every battle where before the bad guys would almost always win.

If Martin were still writing the story, you can bet that Sansa would have ended up as dog food.

PacerDawn 03-05-2019 06:26 PM

I haven't watched any of this series yet so please don't spoil it for me.

VenomUSMC 03-05-2019 06:39 PM

The ending of the series was leaked, spoiler ahead: There is a final, epic battle between the Night King and Jon Snow in the throne room with them circling each other around the throne, swords drawn. Then it starts to rain inside, with both combatants looking up as some sort of thick clear liquid drips from the ceiling and the sound of a massive explosion. Suddenly it cuts to George R.R. Martin, who had fallen asleep atop the throne, be awoken as he unleashes the demons spawn from his inside, the children of Taco Bell. I thought it was anti-climatic, but that's just my opinion.

Meeks 03-05-2019 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PacerDawn (Post 2532236)
I haven't watched any of this series yet so please don't spoil it for me.

I envy you. To be able to go back and re-experience the greatest television show ever made from start to finish would be amazing.

For that reason, I plan to wait a good decade and do just that. I'll likely have forgotten enough that it will feel fresh (and I never read the books).

Primus 03-05-2019 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brandonjclark (Post 2532193)
Screw all those previous posters, ha!

I LOVE this series and I can't wait to finish it!

Yeah dude, people are on crack. I AM SO FUCKING READY.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Chimpbot (Post 2532196)
I think that's a pretty big misunderstanding of how he structured the series. He avoided the "good vs evil" conventions as portrayed in Tolkienian fantasy, instead opting for more moral grey areas and ambiguity. It's less about evil, nasty orcs and glowing, statuesque elves than it is about the concept of "the hero on one side of the story is the villain of the other side of the story".

It's not just about the heroes always losing and the bad guys always winning; it's an exceptionally simplistic view and a pretty gross misinterpretation of the material. It's also bad storytelling, to one degree or another.



He's consistently referred to the ending as bittersweet, which certainly doesn't imply the Night's King will simply run roughshod over everyone and win outright. In reference to A Dream of Spring and the ending of the story, he explicitly said, "I'm not going to tell you how I'm going to end my book, but I suspect the overall flavor is going to be as much bittersweet as it is happy."

The heroes will likely win, but it won't be a happy victory. It very well could be a Pyrrhic victory, at best.

Yeah Martin's writing is more about trope circumvention, not just killing people for no reason.

The Night King might end up being defeated and the Seven Kingdoms saved, but I highly doubt we're seeing Jon and Dany moving into King's Landing together, having 10 kids that start a two-thousand year dynasty, with all the good guys inheriting titles and castles, and all the questionable characters dead, destitute, or in a dungeon.

Azzy 03-05-2019 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chimpbot (Post 2532196)
I think that's a pretty big misunderstanding of how he structured the series. He avoided the "good vs evil" conventions as portrayed in Tolkienian fantasy, instead opting for more moral grey areas and ambiguity. It's less about evil, nasty orcs and glowing, statuesque elves than it is about the concept of "the hero on one side of the story is the villain of the other side of the story"...
..It's not just about the heroes always losing and the bad guys always winning; it's an exceptionally simplistic view and a pretty gross misinterpretation of the material...

I'm not sure if you've noticed but Evil has a tendency to post semi inflammatory shit to get people worked up. Worked up people reply, click things, come back to see the replies to their replies, etc. I spend most of my time online being a devil's advocate (or trolling people who are stupid) so take it from me, if somebody constantly thinks that the pretty things are shallow, the expensive things are rip-offs, and the popular stuff is selling out, they're not an opinion you should put stock in.

And that's not me being a dick and trying to take a dig at somebody, it's just that most of his posts look to be a bit self-serving in a this-is-my-business kind of way, which is totally legit. If the person at the top of the heap has strong opinions it's a great way to keep things interesting. If he was a milk toast fence sitter this site (and all of us) wouldn't be here, so it serves a (relatively) valid service.

PatrickRes9 03-06-2019 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VenomUSMC (Post 2532237)
The ending of the series was leaked, spoiler ahead:

Hah - he shits himself on the "throne" after a taco bell bender? Been there before.

vallor 03-06-2019 05:38 PM

You people clearly haven’t been reading much fantasy in the last 30 years if you think GRRM is the first to come up with this “flipping the tropes on their head” in the fantasy genre. He just happens to be one that added tits and blood enough, and killed characters with such casual strokes to get a major tv series first.

The Ugly Truth, humanicentric fantasy (I.e. elves, dwarves, and magic replaced with humans and politics) can be traced back in part to back Tad Williams The Dragonbone Chair in modern days (and further back if you want to get out of the mainstream and do more sluthing) and forward from there as humans fully oust elves and other races and morality becomes a character.

Martin does even do it best. Certainly he doesn’t have much in the last DECADE to show he can write a good GoT story.

Evil Avatar 03-06-2019 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vallor (Post 2532307)
Martin does even do it best. Certainly he doesn’t have much in the last DECADE to show he can write a good GoT story.

He wrote two GoT novella's since the last book came out. They were both great. :p

Primus 03-06-2019 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vallor (Post 2532307)
You people clearly haven’t been reading much fantasy in the last 30 years if you think GRRM is the first to come up with this “flipping the tropes on their head” in the fantasy genre.

I don't think anyone said that. We're just contesting Evil's assertion that Martin wants the bad guy to win, when his narrative decisions are more nuanced to be more grounded in reality and avoid being cliche or predictable.


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