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-   -   Google Stadia Isnít for me. Hereís why. (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=262389)

Metal Jesus 08-27-2019 07:49 AM

Google Stadia Isnít for me. Hereís why.
 


Is Google Stadia and cloud gaming the future? Man... I hope not! Between the outrageous bandwidth requirements, lack of physical games, potential lag/latency, lack of exclusives and more... it's just not worth it.

Accursed 08-27-2019 09:34 AM

I was excited for Stadia, and after trying the Google streaming demo of Assassins Creed I was optimistic.

Pre-ordered on Day 1, and as more details came out I got dishearted. Finally a couple of weeks ago I cancelled my pre-order.

Initially they where touting "$300 value for $129!" as they where giving you Destiny 2 Complete. Soon after they stopped that Whole "$300 value..." and now the game is part of the monthly subscription.

I'll probably buy the service and maybe the controller, but I can't justify the $129 for the founders edition. I don't need the Chromecast ultra and I don't need to be buying a buddy pass. $69 controller (maybe) and the $10 a month pass and I'm good (also maybe). We will see....

Metal Jesus 08-27-2019 09:47 AM

Like I mentioned in the video...I couldn't get this even if I wanted to. Basically I'd be able to play Stadia every other day for an hour max before hitting my monthly data cap.

Oh... pay for more, you say? I already pay $140 a month...but for another $50 I can supposed get unlimited!? Um, yeah. No.

Accursed 08-27-2019 09:52 AM

I see your point, I don't know what my datacap is and I guess I'll find out. But that huge data number is for 60 fps at 4k. I don't know that that's where I would be. If playing on laptop, cellphone or tablet I think at best I would be at 1080p 6o FPS and that would be 1/4 of the data (in theory).

If I have a 2 hrs 4k 60fps gaming session, I would guess it would use as much as if I stream 4 hrs of netflix 4k? Already 4k streaming is a thing.

Trying to stay optimistic but will stick to the $10 pro, and not buy games for the reasons you stated.

BeardedSonOfNel 08-27-2019 11:28 AM

Great Video MJ!

MadMurdock_0311 08-27-2019 01:09 PM

I ordered one, but, knowing Google (https://killedbygoogle.com), I am expecting them to can this project within a couple years.

Sensei-X 08-27-2019 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadMurdock_0311 (Post 2543181)
I ordered one, but, knowing Google (https://killedbygoogle.com), I am expecting them to can this project within a couple years.

Honestly part of the reason is that Google is run by a bunch of stubborn assholes who think they know better than everyone else and don't seem to respond well to criticism. Just off the top of my head one of the most annoying things about Google Chrome is that download bar at the bottom of the page whenever you download something. Yes, you can manually close it every time, but why not just give you an option under settings to disable it? There's 100s of post around the internet from people who dislike it, but yet here we are years later and they refuse to do that because they apparently consider it a "feature". Not only that a few years ago they doubled down by removing a hidden setting that would disable it.

koorb 08-27-2019 04:11 PM

It would be advantageous for ISPs to offer Stadia through them so that Stadia traffic doesn't count towards bandwidth caps.

PacerDawn 08-27-2019 07:18 PM

My internet was recently down for an entire day. No internet? NO GAMES FOR YOU! No connection, DDOS, connection issues...

Diablo 3 runs on my computer, I play by myself in single player mode. It's not a streaming game, it's single player, and I STILL GET LAG.

Online-only for ALL of my games is bullshit. No thanks.

ElektroDragon 08-27-2019 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metal Jesus (Post 2543167)
Like I mentioned in the video...I couldn't get this even if I wanted to. Basically I'd be able to play Stadia every other day for an hour max before hitting my monthly data cap.

Oh... pay for more, you say? I already pay $140 a month...but for another $50 I can supposed get unlimited!? Um, yeah. No.

Jesus, you need to move! I pay $75 per month for life for 1 GBps symmetrical FIBER connection over here in Silverdale, with NO data cap, and it routinely tests over 900/900 with fast pings. And it never goes down even when the town is without power thanks to the UPSes on my ONT and router. It's through CenturyLink! But I still wouldn't buy Stadia! LOL

RAV 08-28-2019 02:42 AM

A lot of the technical issues will be solved in the coming years. You will see internet providers compete by increasing caps or offer special exceptions for certain services. Also, by lowering the resolution / framerate, it greatly decreases bandwidth, so that it can even be viable with data caps of now. Even now, it depends from region to region, I haven't had a data cap for the last 15 years or so, and fast broadband widely available.

The new Starlink satellite network will be done soon enough etc. I believe that in 10 years from now, no person will complain about things such as latency, bandwidth, data caps or downtimes -- we will also be playing in 8k @ 120 fps, with fully raytraced graphics.

The remaining list of problems with streaming services will stand off against a list of very cool features, and in the end I think the upsides will largely win such, that the streaming market will be by far the biggest gaming market. Will it be Stadia who's the biggest provider of it? Or Microsoft's, Sony's, Nintento's, or some big publisher's? Right now Google has the best server infrastructure in the world, but the others have all the games and experience in publishing and developing content. We'll see who wins out. The business model of this emerging market is also still in development, how to offer a good arrangement of customer interests and publisher interests, take some years until that's figured out. But I remember similar concerns on the move from boxed games to downloadable content, and eventually these things were ironed out. It should be no different for streaming.

Juan 08-28-2019 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAV (Post 2543207)
A lot of the technical issues will be solved in the coming years. You will see internet providers compete by increasing caps or offer special exceptions for certain services. Also, by lowering the resolution / framerate, it greatly decreases bandwidth, so that it can even be viable with data caps of now. Even now, it depends from region to region, I haven't had a data cap for the last 15 years or so, and fast broadband widely available.

The new Starlink satellite network will be done soon enough etc. I believe that in 10 years from now, no person will complain about things such as latency, bandwidth, data caps or downtimes -- we will also be playing in 8k @ 120 fps, with fully raytraced graphics.

The remaining list of problems with streaming services will stand off against a list of very cool features, and in the end I think the upsides will largely win such, that the streaming market will be by far the biggest gaming market. Will it be Stadia who's the biggest provider of it? Or Microsoft's, Sony's, Nintento's, or some big publisher's? Right now Google has the best server infrastructure in the world, but the others have all the games and experience in publishing and developing content. We'll see who wins out. The business model of this emerging market is also still in development, how to offer a good arrangement of customer interests and publisher interests, take some years until that's figured out. But I remember similar concerns on the move from boxed games to downloadable content, and eventually these things were ironed out. It should be no different for streaming.


I'm not sure you understand the problem. Bandwidth is fairly unimportant regarding game streaming, it's a problem of latency. I see no way that we get to sub 16ms latency on everyone's internet connection EVER. It's a pipedream. There will always be lag when streaming games and i'm not willing to pay for that when my existing experience is superior.

RAV 08-28-2019 05:12 AM

Rather soon-ish, the combination of the Starlink satellite network with distributed datacenters around the world should make latency between 10 to 20 ms on average possible for anyone in the world. Which is enough for many types of games. Bandwidth is still important, in terms of possible image quality and framerates, and since many people currently have caps on their data transfer volume per month; but like latency, this problem won't last forever. Personally I typically already play my online games even now with a latency between 10 and 20 ms. What also many people don't consider enough is, that all multiplayer gaming already is very much constrained by this latency, with various issues... and people are still willing to deal with it as of now, because the online features make it work for them.

I understand the critiques as of now. As it stands, as a current service, and what Stadia will bring at the end of this year, it might just not be viable enough for everyone. But considering all the other features it brings, I don't agree you just pay for an inferior service in principle. So okay, you don't actually own the game but still pay the same price currently -- though this argument was also made on the transition from boxed to download, and the always online features, and see what happened -- and maybe it is not the smoothest experience possible. But what's more interesting for many other people might be, that you need no expensive hardware to play the latest games, basically you can play anything on anything. And also it is instant click and play -- no hours of downloading, installing and patching. Click and you are in the game in less than 5 seconds. I think when people just outright slam the principle idea entirely, they don't quite give a fair consideration of the upsides.

Coldeath 08-28-2019 05:20 AM

I think MJ plays more game that have a heavy dependency on input lag (racing or something like this) so would be more affected than me. Good point on how google kills stuff, its something that I had not thought of MJ needs a better ISP tho :D.

shadow763 08-28-2019 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElektroDragon (Post 2543199)
Jesus, you need to move! I pay $75 per month for life for 1 GBps symmetrical FIBER connection over here in Silverdale, with NO data cap, and it routinely tests over 900/900 with fast pings. And it never goes down even when the town is without power thanks to the UPSes on my ONT and router. It's through CenturyLink! But I still wouldn't buy Stadia! LOL

So everyone should cram into the small amount of space where such service is available? Sounds fun!

Exodus 08-28-2019 06:18 AM

See, stadia makes sense for people who can't afford to maintain a high-end computer/console OR they really need the mobility play anywhere of it.

At the end of the day I like pc gaming at home in my chair that is at perfect height for my table with my leg rest on 3 32" monitors running at 144hz wearing my over a grand headphones with my keyboard and mouse.

If I'm out, I'm out doing things I don't need to play a game outside of my home office.

Where stadia COULD get me is if they offer a one platform where I could play with anyone from any platform.

BeardedSonOfNel 08-28-2019 06:48 AM

I haven't had a data cap for over 15 years. I didn't even know that was a thing here in America anymore.

RAV 08-28-2019 07:14 AM

I am a hardcore PC enthusiast. I hope I can mess around with hardware and software for my entire life. But even so I must admit that other people in gaming have other interests: the biggest market with the most money, players and time, is the mobile phone market. So obviously people have different requirements and expectations on their gaming. Many are just very casual about it, their biggest concern is convenience more than anything, and there is nothing wrong about that. They are also not all sensitive the same to issues like latency. And in a variety of games, latency does not have the same importance. You can also already see that with framerates in current games.

But really, the most important point I want to stress here is, that it's not just a matter of getting less for the money. It's not about the same game, but in worse experience. Okay so you cannot have responsive controls as smooth as running local. But you do have features that you cannot have by just running local. That's the point. That's the difference between last generation of streaming attempts and the next one. New features that rely specifically on running in the cloud. Up to entire new genres of games you cannot run local at all, because of the features it offers and requires.

Just one example: every player is now also a potential broadcaster to an arbitrary amount of viewers. And it's very easy, just with one click, no technical knowledge and setup required. Now in addition to that, you are able to temporarily give controls of the game to one of your viewers. You can even share controls of one game with multiple viewers. At first you might just handwave this away as a gimmick, but I think you underestimate just how fun this feature really could be. And there is a large list of other features you cannot have with traditional games. In a way, this cloud stuff is like a dedicated console with special features for special games, unlike anything before. There will be new game experiences you cannot have anywhere else. It's not about playing the same but just worse. So what you will really do is look at the upsides and downsides, and maybe this is something for you or not. But when I look at the current market I already know this type of stuff will be of interest to a lot of people. I really have no doubt it will become the biggest gaming market overall. And even as a hardcore enthusiast, when looking at some of the feature they offer for games, I must say I am impressed, I wish I had some of that. I might even play some of it just for the games and experiences I cannot have anywhere else.

MadMurdock_0311 08-28-2019 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeardedSonOfNel (Post 2543220)
I haven't had a data cap for over 15 years. I didn't even know that was a thing here in America anymore.

For those of us stuck in a city/county/state where Comcast has a monopoly, we get fucked hard.

ElektroDragon 08-28-2019 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeardedSonOfNel (Post 2543220)
I haven't had a data cap for over 15 years. I didn't even know that was a thing here in America anymore.

Oh yes, I can tell from the sound of it that MJ has Comcrap! They have caps and want you to pay $50 extra to remove them.


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