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-   -   MSNBC - Kids don't belong to their parents, kids are owned by the community (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189482)

randir14 04-06-2013 12:26 AM

MSNBC - Kids don't belong to their parents, kids are owned by the community
 

Murmillo 04-06-2013 04:15 AM

So you posted a video without saying anything... Yet it seems like you are trying to hide behind a snarky tag-line.

But for whats its worth, I agree with the video (her). Its how I was raised, its how my children are bring raised (along the small row of houses along the street we live on).

Parents do a poor job trying to do it alone, but every body working together raise more often, more trustworthy balanced children.

lockwoodx 04-06-2013 05:40 AM

Thanks Obama!

randir14 04-06-2013 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murmillo (Post 2200858)
So you posted a video without saying anything... Yet it seems like you are trying to hide behind a snarky tag-line.

But for whats its worth, I agree with the video (her). Its how I was raised, its how my children are bring raised (along the small row of houses along the street we live on).

Parents do a poor job trying to do it alone, but every body working together raise more often, more trustworthy balanced children.

What snarky tag line? Nothing in the topic title wasn't stated in the video. As for you wanting me to say something - I believe the government should stay out of parenting unless a child is being harmed. It is not the "community's" right or obligation to take away the responsibilities of parents.

Here's an article comparing her statements to Communist rhetoric:

Quote:

What's more, the notion of collective responsibility for children was a philosophy that undergirded the Cultural Revolution in Communist China under Chairman Mao. I bring that up because, as you may recall, another Harris-Perry "Lean Forward" spot contains a reference to a "great leap forward," which calls to mind the disastrous agricultural reform plan which starved millions of Chinese to death in the 1950s.
http://newsbusters.org//blogs/ken-sh...ir-communities

Capt_Thad 04-06-2013 11:33 AM

Not to take sides or anything, but "it takes a village" is a very old adage.

Mr. Lake 04-06-2013 11:38 AM

I think the view is slightly skewed... I certainly don't own anyone's kids, but I have a somewhat self-imposed responsibility to help safeguard them from physical harm and be aware of how impressionable they are when I'm having adult conversations within earshot. With respect to education, there are lines to be drawn for sure with respect to sex, science, and religious beliefs - but for math, chemestry, physics, language, history, and culture... I think the insights and introspectives of different people on those subjects is invaluable to kids. In some ways the government has a stake in how well kids are educated because the weight of the country's prosperity will be on their sholders one day. That's my take away from the video at least.

I'm always happy to explain to kids how video games work and what they should study to make them on their own or as a career. When they inderstand that what they want isn't some unattainable arcane magic and they have the tools to make it happen, thats real magic. So yeah, I don't know what the fuss is unless you're hellbent on teaching your kids everything yourself.

brandonjclark 04-06-2013 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Lake (Post 2200896)
I think the view is slightly skewed... I certainly don't own anyone's kids, but I have a somewhat self-imposed responsibility to help safeguard them from physical harm and be aware of how impressionable they are when I'm having adult conversations within earshot. With respect to education, there are lines to be drawn for sure with respect to sex, science, and religious beliefs - but for math, chemestry, physics, language, history, and culture... I think the insights and introspectives of different people on those subjects is invaluable to kids. In some ways the government has a stake in how well kids are educated because the weight of the country's prosperity will be on their sholders one day. That's my take away from the video at least.

I'm always happy to explain to kids how video games work and what they should study to make them on their own or as a career. When they inderstand that what they want isn't some unattainable arcane magic and they have the tools to make it happen, thats real magic. So yeah, I don't know what the fuss is unless you're hellbent on teaching your kids everything yourself.

National prosperity does not come before individual rights. In fact, a nation that upholds liberty will see that prosperity follows.

Mazzicc 04-06-2013 12:03 PM

The problem is the presentation and use of the concept of "ownership" of children. I agree that the issue at hand is that there is a very private view of how people view their children and other people's kids. "My kids deserve everything. I'm not paying for your kids." is very common.

You see this especially in places with a lot of households without kids, such as areas with lots of retirees (cough:arizona:cough). Property taxes commonly fund schools, but if you don't have any kids, you don't see why schools need so much funding when it makes your house cost so much.

People should realize that helping everyone's kids helps them, and helps their own kids. That is the message they're trying to make, even if in a poor way. The individualistic view of "every family for themselves" is short term.

Mr. Lake 04-06-2013 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brandonjclark (Post 2200897)
National prosperity does not come before individual rights. In fact, a nation that upholds liberty will see that prosperity follows.

No one is saying that anyone's kids are going to be taken away from them if they're unwilling to have more a communal upbringing of their kids. I think they'd be sacrificing that kid's future for depriving them of the diversity and impressing upon them the importance of community. Besides, I've seen upholding liberty for corporate masters while crushing the little people so far is doing wonders for our prosperity.

JazGalaxy 04-06-2013 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randir14 (Post 2200894)
What snarky tag line? Nothing in the topic title wasn't stated in the video. As for you wanting me to say something - I believe the government should stay out of parenting unless a child is being harmed. It is not the "community's" right or obligation to take away the responsibilities of parents.

Here's an article comparing her statements to Communist rhetoric:



http://newsbusters.org//blogs/ken-sh...ir-communities

I don't understand why any idea associated with communism is automatically bad.

But more to the point, how is this idea about children belonging to the community is a new thing? 100 years ago is was an unspoken and unquestioned fact of life. It was not uncommon in the slightest for a neighbor to spank your kids if they saw them doing something wrong and you weren't around, and it was common for you to then go and THANK that neighbor.

The whole "don't you dare tell my kid what to do", "I know what's best for my child and nobody else does", "my child is my property and nobody else's business" is as new a concept as the "everyone wins and everyone gets a trophy" philosophy.

Anenome 04-06-2013 09:19 PM

Straight socialism view of families.

JazGalaxy 04-06-2013 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mazzicc (Post 2200905)
The problem is the presentation and use of the concept of "ownership" of children. I agree that the issue at hand is that there is a very private view of how people view their children and other people's kids. "My kids deserve everything. I'm not paying for your kids." is very common.

You see this especially in places with a lot of households without kids, such as areas with lots of retirees (cough:arizona:cough). Property taxes commonly fund schools, but if you don't have any kids, you don't see why schools need so much funding when it makes your house cost so much.

People should realize that helping everyone's kids helps them, and helps their own kids. That is the message they're trying to make, even if in a poor way. The individualistic view of "every family for themselves" is short term.

Right. There is a certain amount of "socialism" (ugh) that economic science dictates is NECESSARY for a healthy economy. It can be mathematically proven. Everyone benefits when people work together.

VenomUSMC 04-06-2013 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazGalaxy (Post 2201000)
I don't understand why any idea associated with communism is automatically bad.

Because millions of dead bodies comes to mind with communism.

inscribed 04-06-2013 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazGalaxy (Post 2201004)
Right. There is a certain amount of "socialism" (ugh) that economic science dictates is NECESSARY for a healthy economy. It can be mathematically proven. Everyone benefits when people work together.

Everyone benefits when they work together through free choice. No one benefits when forced to work together. One is called the free market. The other is called socialism. You seem to be confusing the two.

JazGalaxy 04-06-2013 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VenomUSMC (Post 2201005)
Because millions of dead bodies comes to mind with communism.

That seems as wrong headed as saying capitalism breeds slavery.

JazGalaxy 04-06-2013 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inscribed (Post 2201006)
Everyone benefits when they work together through free choice. No one benefits when forced to work together. One is called the free market. The other is called socialism. You seem to be confusing the two.

"free markets" are not dictated by economic science. Economic science can simply be used to model the outcome of free markets. In the same way, controlled markets can also be modeled. There are instances where both are beneficial.

Agnostic Pope 04-06-2013 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazGalaxy (Post 2201010)
That seems as wrong headed as saying capitalism breeds slavery.

Mao, Stalin and every other dictatorship never happened? Although not entirely free (dependence on money/trade things are illegal when they shouldn't matter) we still have some sort of free will...rather than a rut that is communism. On the other hand are we not slaves to capitalism? Indoctrination works fine on some people I guess. Trade/barter system that is controlled by old money with just a hint of illusions of freedom. God I love America!

Kreigmstr 04-07-2013 05:21 AM

They are my kid's because the community is not bearing any of the financial, emotional, or potential legal burden of raising them. Myself and my wife are the ones that make the sacrifices to raise our 2 kids. The problem comes when people aren't being a proper parent. They put careers and money ahead of being there for their child.

The concept of communism is a good one. Everyone works together for the good of everyone. It works great for ants and bee's. Both of which have no significant difference in the individuals of their species. Throw in differences in ability and interests. Then add in greed, jealousy, and various other parts of the human condition. And you have a system that is designed for oppression of many by a select few. That's why communism is generally viewed as bad and right up there with Fascism as a bad government model.

VenomUSMC 04-07-2013 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazGalaxy (Post 2201010)
That seems as wrong headed as saying capitalism breeds slavery.

Except that communism always seems to bring about the mass killings of their own people. Real capitalism seems to move further away from slavery while communism reduces most people to slaves to the government.

Terran 04-07-2013 12:55 PM

This is an old idea, the notion that kids need to be removed from the influence of their parents and absorbed into the collective/community, and it's one of the primary foundational reasons for public education in our society today, extending back to Dewey, Mann, and others. Parents were then, and are now, perceived as an impediment to imposing upon children the will of progressive ideologues and washing the taint of their family off of them in order to program into them 'proper' perspectives as determined by the progressives themselves. It's a bipolar/schizophrenic worldview that sees parents who do not submit their children to the public school as the 'problem' while simultaneously refusing to recognize the problem of illegitimacy or the cost in children's lives of abortion.

Quote:

Besides, I've seen upholding liberty for corporate masters while crushing the little people so far is doing wonders for our prosperity.
That's an unfair criticism of the Democrats. Stop it.


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