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-   -   Pay To Win: Star Wars Battlefront 2 Has A Loot Crate Problem (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=248941)

Emabulator 10-09-2017 04:23 PM

Pay To Win: Star Wars Battlefront 2 Has A Loot Crate Problem
 

Pay and pay again. Eurogamer has the story.

Quote:

Star Wars Battlefront 2 has a loot crate problem instead of a progression system.

The only way to get new abilities and weapons in Battlefront 2 is from opening loot crates, bought either with in-game currency or real-world currency, price TBD. Either you randomly receive the ability or weapon directly from the loot crate, or you randomly receive an amount of scrap to go towards eventually crafting it - although scrap costs are high and amounts received torturously low.

Emotes and victory poses are in loot crates too, the sort of harmless fodder we're used to seeing in other full-priced multiplayer games like Overwatch. There, loot box content does not affect gameplay; in Battlefront 2 it most certainly does.

Star Card abilities in Battlefront 2 change not only how regular Assault, Heavy, Officer and Specialist soldier classes play - as well as Interceptor, Bomber and Fighter spaceship classes - they also change how Battle Point-unlocked power-up characters play, all the way up to the iconic Heroes and Villains of Star Wars lore.

If you want all the abilities and don't want to spend any more than the £50 you paid for Battlefront 2 which, let's be honest, is probably all of us, then your options are getting lucky when opening a combination of daily loot crates, gifted loot crates and earned loot crates for levelling up, or when opening loot crates bought with in-game currency. But as in-game currency is awarded at a flat rate for a team regardless of performance, this could take a long time.

It gets worse when you consider there are bronze, silver, and gold versions of each Star Card - plus a fourth tier I'm not sure the name of. For instance, Boba Fett has a Star Card ability called Death From Above which grants him damage reduction while jetpacking and using Rocket Barrage. Its lowest tier damage reduction (bronze) is 50 per cent, and it's highest tier 100 per cent. That's a huge difference.
Click on the Headline for the Video.

Emabulator 10-09-2017 04:23 PM

all caps video code

Emabulator 10-09-2017 05:14 PM

Quote:

It gets worse when you consider there are bronze, silver, and gold versions of each Star Card - plus a fourth tier I'm not sure the name of. For instance, Boba Fett has a Star Card ability called Death From Above which grants him damage reduction while jetpacking and using Rocket Barrage. Its lowest tier damage reduction (bronze) is 50 per cent, and it's highest tier 100 per cent. That's a huge difference.
That sucks moose dick!

Sensei-X 10-09-2017 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emabulator (Post 2494962)
That sucks moose dick!

Yeah, pretty much, might've helped if the original wasn't horseshit. Too bad because it had started to look good in the trailers, now it's crossed off the list. Guess EA is going for a personal best as to how quickly they can run a series into the ground.

Tolgar 10-09-2017 06:58 PM

This deal is getting worse all the time!

Terran 10-09-2017 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tolgar (Post 2494969)
This deal is getting worse all the time!

I lol'd. :)

blackzc 10-09-2017 08:37 PM

I was trolling a BF2 stream last night about this. They were getting super mad. ITS A CELL PHONE GAME! AND YOU PAID MONEY FOR IT! lol.

Evil Avatar 10-09-2017 11:51 PM

I’ll probably still buy it. Destiny 2 only lasted about 2 days and there are no other major releases this holiday season.

I hate the fact that some goober who spends a ton of cash will do 50% more damage as Boba Fett than I will, but since I’ll mostly be playing the space battles and the single player campaign, I think it will work out for me.

Since you can’t even pre-order the darn thing because of the spat Amazon is having with EA, I might end up waiting a few weeks till it drops to $40. At that price point I’m sure to get my money worth.

Cranium 10-10-2017 05:08 AM

I'm thoroughly disgusted by pay-to-win. Won't touch a game that sports it, even if it should happen to happen to one of my favorite franchises/IPs. Paying for added glitz is fine (e.g. Rocket League), letting bank account size proportionally boost game mechanics is like being given a loaded gun and a Porsche to race Usain Bolt. Proves shit. Proves you're willing to let go of any competitive measurements the game has to offer in favor of dick measuring, using artificially penis-enlarged dicks. This EA, etc. greed-machine system is playing into the baser human instincts, is the polar opposite of why I love gaming and I think more integrity is to be found in the porn industry.

Capt_Thad 10-10-2017 05:27 AM

People really going off on this stuff. The game during beta is very "gamble-to-progress", and that's definitely not great. Gamble-to-progress is a pretty vile system. Word is that you'll have more avenues for progression at launch, according to some leaked private test build. As long as there's ways around the gambling--for example, you can build/upgrade cards with crafting parts, they were just slow to earn in beta--then I can deal with the packs.

It's not really "pay-to-win" though. People buying packs get more chances to gamble, but aren't getting access to anything that anyone else couldn't get access to. I had a few gold cards in the beta. Odds per pack are still going to be the same for any particular card. It's kinda like the shortcut kits in the Battlefield games, except without the guarantee of getting what you're aiming to buy. A very roundabout way to spend significantly more money for the same thing.

When they have purchase-only packs offering exclusive high-power gear, then I'll jump on the pay-to-win anger bandwagon.

Terran 10-10-2017 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capt_Thad (Post 2495004)
"gamble-to-progress"

Sounds like just about every aRPG I've ever played (PoE, Diablo, etc., etc.) where you use up resources attempting to reroll or forge equipment with the proper affixes in order to progress in power/abilities.

In other words, a pain in the ass grind. :o

Mozain 10-10-2017 07:51 AM

Yah I gave it a shot over the weekend (they extended the beta too). Overall I think it's much improved over the first one in every way.

Hell people could just outright buy packs of the upgraded star cards in the first one. So, if idiots want to pay for a *chance* at a card, I see that as an improvement.

vallor 10-10-2017 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Avatar (Post 2494991)
I hate the fact that some goober who spends a ton of cash will do 50% more damage as Boba Fett than I will, but since Iíll mostly be playing the space battles and the single player campaign, I think it will work out for me.

After watching the Totalbiscuit video it looks like the Pay-to-win impacts Space Battles too. For example you can get cards which improve the DPS of your space ship (he was talking specifically about an A-Wing) by 20% or more.

He had ~$1,000 invested in loot crates and said his overall power level was at least 2 if not 5 times higher than a starter in ground and space.

If you can slot anything in SP then it impacts that mode too by giving an easy-easy mode.

This was at the top of my list (along with Destiny PC). I was going to try and get back into FPS for this game but not any more. This is a bridge too far and I never planned on playing online.

vallor 10-10-2017 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terran (Post 2495008)
Sounds like just about every aRPG I've ever played (PoE, Diablo, etc., etc.) where you use up resources attempting to reroll or forge equipment with the proper affixes in order to progress in power/abilities.

In other words, a pain in the ass grind. :o

Except, short of Diablo's RMAH, you couldn't officially spend real money to increase your in-game power level. Re-roll all you want and you'll eventually end up short of gold, gems, or whatever.

blackzc 10-10-2017 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vallor (Post 2495059)
Except, short of Diablo's RMAH, you couldn't officially spend real money to increase your in-game power level. Re-roll all you want and you'll eventually end up short of gold, gems, or whatever.

Ya, i have no problem with loot boxes, id rather know what im working to get but its fine.. its the E-begging for real money that goes along with it.

Again, they are trying to charge for what are basically cheat codes in many cases.

Gran Turismo Sport is launching with 150 cars. They are going to be releasing 500 cars.......For free. That's how you do it.

Terran 10-10-2017 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vallor (Post 2495059)
Re-roll all you want and you'll eventually end up short of gold, gems, or whatever.

You haven't played in a while. :) Nobody ends up short of gold or gems in D3 any longer. I have thousands of each gem and billions upon billions in gold. You do end up with chokepoints, however...souls, deaths breath, and the unique bounty mats...those will all get you eventually from rerolling/reforging items.

Tough to pay for that stuff, as it's account bound. You can still pay for leveling/grifting services, though. Why I have no idea, but some do apparently.

blackzc 10-10-2017 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terran (Post 2495074)
You haven't played in a while. :) Nobody ends up short of gold or gems in D3 any longer. I have thousands of each gem and billions upon billions in gold. You do end up with chokepoints, however...souls, deaths breath, and the unique bounty mats...those will all get you eventually from rerolling/reforging items.

Tough to pay for that stuff, as it's account bound. You can still pay for leveling/grifting services, though. Why I have no idea, but some do apparently.

You make me wish i had just kept playing D3. Its really all anyone needs. It is worth getting into at this point?

Terran 10-10-2017 06:28 PM

It's pretty long in the tooth. The community roars to life around the first few weeks of each 'season' (with seasonal characters, not regular characters), then rapidly drifts away as the season drags on through its typical three month run. I've been done with 'guardian' (highest level for the season) for a very long time and decided to bail and play some PoE.

D3 is a great game, but my time with it grows short, I think. I've earned the extra stash tabs from seasonal achievements and I've gotten to the point where I'm just tinkering around the edges with characters now...trying to perfect gear and getting only incremental increases in power with each change.

Karai Pantsu 10-11-2017 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mozain (Post 2495020)
Yah I gave it a shot over the weekend (they extended the beta too). Overall I think it's much improved over the first one in every way.

Hell people could just outright buy packs of the upgraded star cards in the first one. So, if idiots want to pay for a *chance* at a card, I see that as an improvement.

This is exceptionally dangerous thinking in regards to gaming as a money making experience, and I'm surprised no one else has commented on it yet. The only people who win out when this idea becomes the status quo is the corporations who get your money when you gamble it away. There is far less consumer value in this than even the original horse armor DLC that sparked such a fevered debate all those years ago about paying for cosmetic changes in games.

vallor 10-11-2017 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capt_Thad (Post 2495004)
It's not really "pay-to-win" though. People buying packs get more chances to gamble, but aren't getting access to anything that anyone else couldn't get access to.

This is a cop out and the thin line that keeps the masses from outright rebellion and (I suspect) protections from Government regulation.

The amount of time->pack exchange is usually pretty significant and for a game where the power delta for the haves and have nots, such as it appears is the case in Battlefront 2, I'm not sure this is a good path to go. Some people play the long way, earning stuff through sheer game time, we saw that here when Heroes of the Storm went to the Loot Box system, but obviously the shiny immediate gratification is extremely attractive considering it has funded F2P games for a decade and has infiltrated retail games to various degrees for the last, what, 5 years?

One thing I believe can be a saving grace of loot box systems that few take into account is the secondary market. For example in CS:GO you can sell your doodads in the Steam Marketplace which allows you to offload your extras or rare items for up to $1,800 (or OPSkins for really expensive items). In that space you can dump your unwanted stuff to fund more loot box purchasing. In fact it's estimated 20% to 25% of the players there basically keep the entire secondary market flush and moving along. I've heard of some of the rarest items, like stat tracking rare skin knives, sell for $10,000. There are people who make a real good living selling those items. This helps the dev because they get a cut of the sale, it helps Steam because they get a cut, but more importantly it helps the player because they can make money off stuff that would otherwise be duplicate or useless to them.

EDIT:
FULL DISCLOSURE: One of the games I'm working on now uses a fairly standard lottery loot box system which only contain cosmetics. There are tiers of rarity; bronze, silver, gold which award from different loot pools (though bronze and silver have a chance give you something from loot tier above them). The player is rewarded with a box after n hours of gameplay or, of course, they can purchase more from the in-game marketplace.

I don't have the personality to understand the attraction to the blackbox loot system but I also am relatively risk averse so don't get the thrill of opening and seeing what comes out of the package. I'd rather spend twice as much for the sure thing.


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