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-   -   Xenoblade Chronicles 2 - Nintendo E3 (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246229)

BeardedSonOfNel 06-13-2017 08:53 PM

Xenoblade Chronicles 2 - Nintendo E3
 
https://s14.postimg.org/gh7p7xi4x/Xe...-2-940x529.jpg
Click the headline to watch the video.

Quote:

Journey to Elysium in Xenoblade Chronicles 2, coming to Nintendo Switch this winter.

BeardedSonOfNel 06-13-2017 08:53 PM


ashikenshin 06-13-2017 09:33 PM

these games look so good but I know that treehouse will butcher this game. Already the english dub sounds awful.

Hellstorm 06-14-2017 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashikenshin (Post 2485856)
these games look so good but I know that treehouse will butcher this game. Already the english dub sounds awful.

Should have NoE do the dub like last time.

EL CABONG 06-14-2017 10:56 AM

This and Mario look great. Not sure if its enough to get to buy a switch but this game is making the prospect of getting a switch much more tempting.

Chimpbot 06-14-2017 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EL CABONG (Post 2485924)
This and Mario look great. Not sure if its enough to get to buy a switch but this game is making the prospect of getting a switch much more tempting.

Pfft, you don't want that kiddie shit.

Buy a real man's console, man.

http://i.imgur.com/Bu5Wo3Ul.jpg

PatrickRes9 06-14-2017 06:08 PM

I loved Xenoblade Chronicles X. The scope of that game was ridiculous, and the equipment, skilling, bosses, exploration, and the sheer size and detail of the world were ridiculous. I had 400 hours logged. I still didn't get the final mech I wanted or a few of the mech super weapons.

This is an instant purchase for me day 1.

Also, Nice photo Chimpbot. Bro-dudes sharing the same games their 11 year old nephews play and muttering something about "adult" content. Hahaha. Rich.

LostToys 06-14-2017 07:32 PM

A game aimed at adults and played by kids (not all M-rated games are equal in violence) and games aimed at kids and played by adults (not all kid games lack depth) are not the same. I swear, hyperbole is going to be the death of me! (yar yar).

ashikenshin 06-14-2017 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LostToys (Post 2485981)
A game aimed at adults and played by kids (not all M-rated games are equal in violence) and games aimed at kids and played by adults (not all kid games lack depth) are not the same. I swear, hyperbole is going to be the death of me! (yar yar).

also I fail to see how one can evaluate maturity based on the games played.

Chimpbot 06-14-2017 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashikenshin (Post 2485984)
also I fail to see how one can evaluate maturity based on the games played.

And that's exactly the point.

LostToys 06-14-2017 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashikenshin (Post 2485984)
also I fail to see how one can evaluate maturity based on the games played.

Depends on how you want to define it. It can be as simple as the rating on the box, to adult content and situations, hard to master controls, to nuanced story telling and themes. Obviously, people like to use the ESRB rating to determine maturity as it clearly puts the demographic on display on the front of the box.

PatrickRes9 06-15-2017 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashikenshin (Post 2485984)
also I fail to see how one can evaluate maturity based on the games played.

And that's exactly the point. It's all the same. Some people are just more sensitive to that sort of thing. They can't play an E rated game. To me that sort of thing is entirely irrelevant. Witcher 3 or Mario - Fun factor is the only thing that matters.

Chimpbot 06-15-2017 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LostToys (Post 2485989)
Depends on how you want to define it. It can be as simple as the rating on the box, to adult content and situations, hard to master controls, to nuanced story telling and themes. Obviously, people like to use the ESRB rating to determine maturity as it clearly puts the demographic on display on the front of the box.

ESRB ratings having nothing to do with controls, or nuanced storytelling; the ratings are based entirely around the content, such as violence, crude humor, sexually suggestive (or explicit) content, blood/gore and strong language.

M-rated games aren't automatically better, more difficult or more nuanced than an E-rated game; it just means the former has content that is generally considered to be more acceptable for the 17+ crowd. If you're looking at the rating and assuming the game will be "better" than those with more accessible ratings, I think you're reading far too much into things, if not outright misinterpreting the purpose and intent of the ESRB rating system.

It's no different than the current fad of people clamoring for R-rated superhero movies, as if the R-rating automatically makes the movie better.

ashikenshin 06-15-2017 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chimpbot (Post 2486015)
It's no different than the current fad of people clamoring for R-rated superhero movies, as if the R-rating automatically makes the movie better.

It doesn't make the movie better but it allows the director more freedom. Having a director cut content from their movie because of a producer wanting a pg-13 rating sucks. I don't think this quite applies to this conversation though.

Chimpbot 06-15-2017 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashikenshin (Post 2486016)
It doesn't make the movie better but it allows the director more freedom. Having a director cut content from their movie because of a producer wanting a pg-13 rating sucks. I don't think this quite applies to this conversation though.

It's analogous, I think.

Regardless of the medium, not having to "reign yourself in" because of content restrictions isn't necessarily a bad thing. Looking at the movie example, most of the content cut or edited due to ratings typically involves gratuitous violence, blood and/or gore. Sure, it might look cool...but nothing of actual value to the plot, story, themes or overall development typically isn't lost. Hell, there are examples where working within the confines of a "lower" rating can actually create much more sinister, terrifying situations. For example, the "I'm gonna make this pencil disappear" scene in The Dark Knight felt so much more violent and brutal without showing any blood - or even the pencil explicitly going into the man's skull - than any gorier version of the scene would have. It was quick and got the point across in a rather elegant manner.

I digress.

In terms of video games, an M-rating doesn't really "free" the writers or developers to do anything, other than utilize more blood, gore, violence, swearing and maybe some tits. It doesn't affect the way the game plays in any meaningful way, whatsoever.

The story or overall experience in any given M-rated game is not inherently or automatically better than any given T- or E-rated game (which covers a huge swath of titles, mind you).

ashikenshin 06-15-2017 09:50 AM

hence why I said it's different. And, rating does limit movies. Usually the removal of blood is done poorly and it shows. Blood and adult themes are often cut in order to pretend to captivate a wider audience.



In games it doesn't work that way. Usually developers know what rating they are aiming for before starting work on it. The only times they have to cut content is when they go into AO territory.

LostToys 06-15-2017 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashikenshin (Post 2486024)
In games it doesn't work that way. Usually developers know what rating they are aiming for before starting work on it. The only times they have to cut content is when they go into AO territory.

Or you are bringing the game over from Japan... *cough* boob slider in Xenoblade Chronicles*cough*.

ashikenshin 06-16-2017 01:22 AM

Which doesn't make any sense, the rating would have been the same. That was Treehouse bullshit which is why I'm not buying Treehouse "localized" butchered content.

I rather have a bad translation than memes and references to gamergate.

btw I hate the left's puritanical war on boobs

JazGalaxy 06-17-2017 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LostToys (Post 2485981)
A game aimed at adults and played by kids (not all M-rated games are equal in violence) and games aimed at kids and played by adults (not all kid games lack depth) are not the same. I swear, hyperbole is going to be the death of me! (yar yar).

The problem with this false equivalency is that Nintendos games aren't "aimed at kids". A few elites gamers look, at it and say "That's for kids". But there is no empirical truth to that statement. It's a judgement that exists only in their head.
Yes, some games are INNALROPRATE for children. But something being inappropriate for children does not make it " mature". Nor does it follow logically that things which are appropriate for all audiences are "childish".

JazGalaxy 06-17-2017 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashikenshin (Post 2486024)
hence why I said it's different. And, rating does limit movies. Usually the removal of blood is done poorly and it shows. Blood and adult themes are often cut in order to pretend to captivate a wider audience.



In games it doesn't work that way. Usually developers know what rating they are aiming for before starting work on it. The only times they have to cut content is when they go into AO territory.

It's a little more. Implicated than that. Films and games are rated differently. Movies must submit a Cut of the film to be rated. If a film gets an undesirable rating, the editors can usually cut seconds of film to get an acceptable rating.

Games submit a video of a vertical slice of the game and the self-selected most egregious content to the ESRB, which they file away. They don't play the games and they don't see EVERYthing. So in a way, the publishers pick the rating they want. If they were found to be scamming, they would face a fine, but there's no real reason to.

LostToys 06-17-2017 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazGalaxy (Post 2486182)
The problem with this false equivalency is that Nintendos games aren't "aimed at kids". A few elites gamers look, at it and say "That's for kids". But there is no empirical truth to that statement. It's a judgement that exists only in their head.

Games like Ypshi's Wooly World and Kirby's Epic Yarn are definitely aimed at children because the games are streamlined and there are no fail states. That doesn't mean that adults can't find these games fun to play, just like adults can often go into a G or PG film and still be entertained, but it does not stop the fact from being that the games are designed to be played by some of the lower age brackets, and enjoyed by all.

JazGalaxy 06-18-2017 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LostToys (Post 2486190)
Games like Ypshi's Wooly World and Kirby's Epic Yarn are definitely aimed at children because the games are streamlined and there are no fail states. That doesn't mean that adults can't find these games fun to play, just like adults can often go into a G or PG film and still be entertained, but it does not stop the fact from being that the games are designed to be played by some of the lower age brackets, and enjoyed by all.

You're just making stuff up.

"...are definitely aimed at children because the games are streamlined and there are no fail states".

You have made up the association between no fail states and children. There is absolutely nothing to back this up. Not only children want "no fail states", and not all children want "no fail states". Some children respond to no fail states. Some adults respond to no fail states. Some children like fail states. Some adults like fail states.

I can't tell you how many podcasts I listen to where grown adults who have played games their entire lives lament fail states and say that no game should have them. I also can't tell you how many people I've met in my life who find video games anxiety-inducing because they don't like the concept of being able to fail. I recall having to set Rock Band to "no fail mode" so that some of my friends would participate. Failing, in short, was no fun to them.

I'm the completely opposite. I won't play a game unless I can fail. I've been that way ever since I was a kid, and the idea of challenge is what drew me to gaming in the first place.

So we cannot say that Kirby and Yoshi are for children just because they are series that are aimed for less experienced gamers.

My understanding of the Nintendo platforming tier is that Kirby is the easiest and most welcoming for new players. Yoshi is slightly more difficult, but still welcoming. Mario is slightly more difficult and for the widest number of players. Donkey Kong is the hardest and for the most experienced players. Those players could be anyone. Male or female. Young or old.

PatrickRes9 06-18-2017 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LostToys (Post 2486190)
Games like Ypshi's Wooly World and Kirby's Epic Yarn are definitely aimed at children because the games are streamlined and there are no fail states. That doesn't mean that adults can't find these games fun to play, just like adults can often go into a G or PG film and still be entertained, but it does not stop the fact from being that the games are designed to be played by some of the lower age brackets, and enjoyed by all.

Just not sure about that, LostToys. I've played so many "adult" games that had virtually 0 consequence for death or perceived failure aside from having to suffer a loading screen. That just seems like an industry directional thing. When I was a kid, maybe about 5-6, I played NES games. Almost all of them had "hard fails". Failure was a gameover screen and starting all over. Almost all games were like that. You could even use Donkey Kong and Mario as examples, but that extended to games based on popular cartoons, and on and on. Almost all NES games I played were "hard fails".

Now a lot of games (both kid friendly and adult) don't have any "fail states" at all. Consequences are mostly reloading a 20 second old saved state or checkpoint.

What I think Nintendo does extremely well as a developer is offer a multi-layered challenge to their games, including games like Yoshi and Mario. To get through the main story is often relatively easy, but they usually have side objectives that push more "hardcore" gamers. Collecting things that require precise timing and execution, or bonus levels that offer more challenge. For example Super Mario 3D World is relatively easy to beat. Beating the bonus levels and collecting all 3 green stars on every level however, is not very easy at all.

It's that kind of development, where multiple layers of difficulty are baked right into the game (without even having to select a difficulty level) that I really like. My son can play the game with challenge, and I can play the game with challenge, shooting for the more difficult tasks, in an environment with smooth and fun gameplay. That's the other part I enjoy. Nintendo's games are very gameplay-centric. As a working dad with a bout 1/20th the time I used to have for my hobby, I now more than ever appreciate games that are gameplay-centric and high on fun-factor. That's really honestly mostly all I care about. Those features being skinned into a colorful cardboard Yoshi land doesn't bother me at all. Fun/gameplay. That's what I want. I only have so much time to play.

Scherge 06-18-2017 12:35 PM

I believe you're all overthinking it. In a perfect world, we'd rate games for the gameplay's sake. But not many people do this, just like not many people rate movies by their depth, implications or character development. They see a film like "Spirited Away" and say: "The protagonist is a little girl, everything's very colorful - that's kids' stuff!" Take away the colors, add sex and/or violence, and they'll say: "I wouldn't show this to my kid - that's mature stuff", even if the story is a straight-forward power fantasy (Marvel), about black-or-white justice (DC) or simply nonsense (porn).

We all judge things by looking at them (and I dare anyone here who is without sin to cast the first stone against this claim). If you look at more or less everything Nintendo has developed since "Twilight Princess", what do you see? Bright colors and - more often than not - ridiculous excuses for stories (abducted prince/princess, kingdom in peril, let's race/fight/compete for no reason), mostly set in non-threatening environments*. That IS kids' stuff.

It doesn't matter that adults can enjoy it, too. Who am I to tell you what to spend your time on? I loved "LocoRoco 2", but many "core" gamers wouldn't even give it a chance due to its looks and sounds.

Were where we? Ah yes, "Xenoblade Chronicles 2". I'll almost certainly buy a Xenoblade game when I get a Switch or - more likely at the moment - a Wii U. For this one, they even streamlined the character design... whether you like it or not. :confused:

*) Again, it's not about the gameplay threat or challenge. Yoshi's Wooly World is simply not as harrowing as a cave in Tomb Raider.

LostToys 06-18-2017 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazGalaxy (Post 2486193)
You're just making stuff up.

So I am making stuff up because I have an opinion that the two games (among others) I mentioned are designed for Children but they can be enjoyed by Adults based on several factors such as no fail states, game aesthetics designed to remind the player of their childhood (ex. Yoshi being wooly - ie a stuff animal - and Kirby using soft colorful fabrics - something you might have snuggled up to or played with as a kid), and a co-op designed for someone of low-skill to still be helpful to their partner (ex. the second player does not actually play with the main player, but controls a secondary character that can do things like pick up items or temporarily stun enemies)?

Again, just because the game is geared towards children does not meant that the game is not good, does not have depth, or is not also for adults.

JazGalaxy 06-19-2017 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LostToys (Post 2486250)
So I am making stuff up because I have an opinion that the two games (among others) I mentioned are designed for Children but they can be enjoyed by Adults based on several factors such as no fail states, game aesthetics designed to remind the player of their childhood (ex. Yoshi being wooly - ie a stuff animal - and Kirby using soft colorful fabrics - something you might have snuggled up to or played with as a kid), and a co-op designed for someone of low-skill to still be helpful to their partner (ex. the second player does not actually play with the main player, but controls a secondary character that can do things like pick up items or temporarily stun enemies)?

Again, just because the game is geared towards children does not meant that the game is not good, does not have depth, or is not also for adults.

Well, no, you are making stuff up because you keep saying that Yoshi and Kirby are "geared toward children" and then using a bunch of completely random and subjective points that you are making up in order to prove your point. Many of which are objectively false.

The only reasonable thing you can say is "I don't like the look of Kirby or Yoshi". That is a perfectly fine opinion.

But you are adding in the element about "...because it's childish" in order to mitigate your opinion and add in an element of suggesting that you are more "mature" and sophisticated than other adult gamers who like those games.

I get it. I can't help but feel superior to people who like Metal Gear Solid. But that's a personal opinion that has no merit outside my own head. I can't go around pretending that's a fact.

Yoshi and Kirby are Japanese games developed by Japanese people. In Japan, there is no such association between "adulthood" and "dark" or "macho". They make those games for people who want to play those games. And I don't think many people would argue with the idea that many adult women would be more interested in playing Yoshi's Wooly World than, say, God of War. So are they less "adult" or less "mature" because they don't want to play they power/sex fantasy of a middle aged man?

All I'm arguing against is the concept of using personal taste and personal cultural beliefs as supposedly empirical facts that the rest of the world should simply accept.

Judas 06-19-2017 09:30 AM

I don't like the childish looking anime art style here. It looks like 10 year olds in battle. I preferred the more mature theme of the characters in the first Xenoblade Chronicles X. Will pass on this one, as an older gamer, I have a hard time trying to immerse myself in this fiction.

LostToys 06-19-2017 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazGalaxy (Post 2486261)
Well, no, you are making stuff up because you keep saying that Yoshi and Kirby are "geared toward children" and then using a bunch of completely random and subjective points that you are making up in order to prove your point. Many of which are objectively false.

The only reasonable thing you can say is "I don't like the look of Kirby or Yoshi". That is a perfectly fine opinion.

When did I ever say this? I never said anything about not liking the aesthetic. All I am pointing out is that the aesthetic for these two games are designed for children. It is like saying that Candy Crush Saga is designed for Women. That was its designed base. There is nothing wrong with that, much like there is nothing wrong with you enjoying it.

Quote:

But you are adding in the element about "...because it's childish" in order to mitigate your opinion and add in an element of suggesting that you are more "mature" and sophisticated than other adult gamers who like those games.
When did I suggest I was more mature and sophisticated for the game? I have been stating, several times in fact, that just because the game has a target audience of children, it does not mean that the mechanics, story and other elements do not offer tangible challenges.

ashikenshin 06-19-2017 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LostToys (Post 2486292)
When did I suggest I was more mature and sophisticated for the game? I have been stating, several times in fact, that just because the game has a target audience of children, it does not mean that the mechanics, story and other elements do not offer tangible challenges.

Maybe some are insecure about their tastes that anything stating the truth about the things they like is taken as an insult. In this case being made for children in mind is seen as an offense that will not be tolerated.

These games are made with children in mind, that is a fact. If you find this truth offensive then maybe there is some issues you have to deal with.



Seems Nintendo (treehouse) is all to eager to butcher this game for everybody.

LostToys 06-19-2017 02:33 PM

That is how I feel. Just own the fact that you enjoying it. Nothing else matters. I know the deep down feeling of wanting to be defensive about something that you love and enjoy, but I've learned to just not bother if you feel the other person being rude and condescending. But if they are showing an actual interest, then keep the conversation going.

blackzc 06-19-2017 02:34 PM

Here are two problems i had with Xenoblade 1.

The text was too small for my 55 in TV. Even pulling the recliner up to the TV.
The names of item. Root bar dingle arm? Turbo encabulator? Get the fuck outta here with that shit. Name the goddam item in a way so it makes sense as to what they do.

Part 2 is looking like a more streamlined, concise game. Will buy.

JazGalaxy 06-20-2017 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashikenshin (Post 2486331)
Maybe some are insecure about their tastes that anything stating the truth about the things they like is taken as an insult.

I find his, and now your, statements to be offensive to logic and reason more than I do personally offensive to my taste in games.

It is simply NOT a "fact" that these games are "made with children in mind". If you really continue to maintain this, then you DO NOT KNOW WHAT A FACT IS.

These games, as Nintendo continually says, are made for EVERYONE in mind. Children and adults. That does not make them "for children". It does not make them "focused on children". They are simply inoffensive games. They are made for women. They are made for girls. They are made for boys. They are made for men.

MEN buy Yoshi's Wooly World. MEN by Kirby.

To continue to say that they are games made for children is to admit that you have mental delusions and cannot separate actual FACTS from your personal opinions.

ashikenshin 06-20-2017 02:42 AM

They are made for the lowest common denominator, which in this case is children. They are made with children in mind. Man you are triggered by this.

JazGalaxy 06-20-2017 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashikenshin (Post 2486388)
They are made for the lowest common denominator, which in this case is children. They are made with children in mind. Man you are triggered by this.

...the hell?

You people are utter idiots. This sentence is so full of stupidity that I can't even parse it.

Children are the "lowest common denominator", now? A game that is inoffensive is now "low" art?

You really CAN'T separate your opinions from facts can you? This is staggering.


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