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-   -   id Software Crunched "Most of Last Year" to hit Delayed Doom Eternal Date (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=264918)

Evil Avatar 01-23-2020 07:12 AM

id Software Crunched "Most of Last Year" to hit Delayed Doom Eternal Date
 

Quote:

Doom Eternal wouldn’t be the same game without it being delayed, according to executive producer Marty Stratton.

Speaking to VG247, Stratton explained that the team at id Software were working long hours in the lead up to the delay, and that pushing Doom Eternal back has let the team get the game up to the level of quality they feel their effort deserves.

“I say it’s the best game we’ve ever made. I don’t think I’d say that if we didn’t have that extra time,” Stratton said.

“The game was done, we haven’t added anything but what [the delay] allowed us to do was fix a tonne more bugs.

“It allowed us to do a lot of polishing, hardening of the back-end systems and we do testing throughout where we bring in people externally. We did a couple of additional versions of those and made a couple of additions to the game, just balance-type things and patching up a couple of exploits.”

Developer crunch has been a big discussion topic over the last couple of years, with heavy criticism aimed at many triple-A developers for fostering cultures of expected overtime at the expense of staff well being.

Stratton said that while the id studio leadership try to encourage developers to take the time they need, many choose to work late, and some amount of crunch is necessary.

We were crunching pretty hard most of last year. It goes in phases,” Stratton explained.
VG247.

I'm totally willing to sacrifice the health and well being of people I don't know to get the game I want. Totally.

NACIONAL 01-23-2020 07:34 AM

I understan the need of crunch time, but for a full year?... those poor devs must be destroyed.

BadIronTree 01-23-2020 08:09 AM

Some Anthem devs had mental breakdowns and needed months to recover ...

As many people said before... "managers think you can deliver a baby in one month if there are 9 women on it" :P

excalibur1814 01-23-2020 09:04 AM

I'm glad that the game was delayed. it's amazing to finish something... but then return to 'perfect' that amazing thing that you've created. You gain that extra bit of pride, despite wanting it to simply end.

Now... TT needs to release more patches for their Lego games. It gets REALLY annoying when their games crash to desktop over and over again.

MavenACTG 01-23-2020 09:20 AM

Quote:

we do testing throughout where we bring in people externally.
i.e. third-party contractors hiring teenagers.

brandonjclark 01-23-2020 10:16 AM

So, I'm currently on day 21 without a day off. Yes, it's because of a major issue at work, but it's bullshit.

I'm close to quitting.

Just have to find another job first.

BadIronTree 01-23-2020 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brandonjclark (Post 2552361)
So, I'm currently on day 21 without a day off. Yes, it's because of a major issue at work, but it's bullshit.

I'm close to quitting.

Just have to find another job first.

Europe has max hours per week... anything above COST A LOT...

In Bank Of America IT. I had to work ALWAY every 1st and 15th of the month.

Normally 8 hours each day... every extra hour was overtime and if it was Holidays or Weekend I has paid 3x times per hour :D (first job ever :P)

SpectralThundr 01-23-2020 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadIronTree (Post 2552355)
Some Anthem devs had mental breakdowns and needed months to recover ...

As many people said before... "managers think you can deliver a baby in one month if there are 9 women on it" :P

Just imagine the crunch at CIG. *snicker* Oh wait the game is never going to ship.

ascl 01-23-2020 01:07 PM

This is disappointing. It isn't like the studio is desperate for cash, and it's more or less a given the title will make money. I'm fine with delays, delay it till it's ready, but those poor devs. A year of crunch is harsh. I have no issues with asking my team to work outside of normal hours when it is required, but only if I'm doing it as well, and there is a major issue that needs to be resolved ASAP. I can think of maybe 3 occasions in the last year that have required it for some portion of the team. Never the whole team and that is 2-3 more than I'd like.

Sensei-X 01-23-2020 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ascl (Post 2552377)
This is disappointing. It isn't like the studio is desperate for cash, and it's more or less a given the title will make money. I'm fine with delays, delay it till it's ready, but those poor devs. A year of crunch is harsh. I have no issues with asking my team to work outside of normal hours when it is required, but only if I'm doing it as well, and there is a major issue that needs to be resolved ASAP. I can think of maybe 3 occasions in the last year that have required it for some portion of the team. Never the whole team and that is 2-3 more than I'd like.

Often these issues arise when someone without a clue of what it takes to make a game gets to set the date (which is to say, practically always) and then the people actually working on the game are forced to get the game done on time "or else". Consumers generally don't help the issue as the majority of them don't give two fucks about how overworked the people making the game are and will go on social media the second a delay is announced and also if the game makes it on time but is full of bugs because the team wasn't given enough time to fix things. Add to that the now all too common "betas" which generally aren't intended to actually fix anything, just increase pre-orders, and watch as the devs pull their hair out when you have droves of people raging and foaming at the mouth when they feel wronged because the bugs they reported 3 days ago made it into the final game because hey, that's plenty of time to fix bugs right?. /facepalm

DingBat 01-23-2020 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sensei-X (Post 2552379)
Often these issues arise when someone without a clue of what it takes to make a game gets to set the date (which is to say, practically always) and then the people actually working on the game are forced to get the game done on time "or else". Consumers generally don't help the issue as the majority of them don't give two fucks about how overworked the people making the game are and will go on social media the second a delay is announced and also if the game makes it on time but is full of bugs because the team wasn't given enough time to fix things. Add to that the now all too common "betas" which generally aren't intended to actually fix anything, just increase pre-orders, and watch as the devs pull their hair out when you have droves of people raging and foaming at the mouth when they feel wronged because the bugs they reported 3 days ago made it into the final game because hey, that's plenty of time to fix bugs right?. /facepalm

This happens, but probably not nearly as often as you might think.

In my experience, developers are ridiculously optimistic. That's part of the reason we can do what we do. We don't think "that can't be done." We think "yeah, we could totally do that."

The problem is that this leaks into estimation.

DingBat 01-23-2020 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ascl (Post 2552377)
This is disappointing. It isn't like the studio is desperate for cash, and it's more or less a given the title will make money. I'm fine with delays, delay it till it's ready, but those poor devs. A year of crunch is harsh. I have no issues with asking my team to work outside of normal hours when it is required, but only if I'm doing it as well, and there is a major issue that needs to be resolved ASAP. I can think of maybe 3 occasions in the last year that have required it for some portion of the team. Never the whole team and that is 2-3 more than I'd like.

Right. This is reasonable. An emergency requires special treatment.

Working overtime for a year is not an emergency. That's just over-optimism, overreach, really bad planning, and many people who could do something about it just refusing to face the truth.

Evil Avatar 01-23-2020 07:37 PM

Yea, I had to work 6 days this week and a couple of those were 10.5 hour days. Big pain in the butt. I feel for these people, though let's be fair, most of them make a lot of money so it kinda goes with the paycheck.

I'm so glad that I got out to see the movie on Monday, because I ended up working that night.

vallor 01-23-2020 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Avatar (Post 2552400)
I feel for these people, though let's be fair, most of them make a lot of money so it kinda goes with the paycheck.

You'd be surprised. Game developers get fucked on salary because they have the (dubious) honor of working on video games. Very few are actually keeping ahead of the economy if they are working in one of America video game hubs and even a much smaller fraction than that are going to see big bucks, maybe half a %.

When I worked in medical the money was way better. People can fall out of college with their CS degree into a $175k/year salary working in finance which is about what a Technical Director, someone with a decade of experience under their belt, would likely make in games.

When I was young, I was proud of how much I crunched. Now that I am a manager, I consider it a fail if people on my team crunch.

About 10 years ago I was "broken" by an extended crunch and I don't think I recovered.

RAV 01-23-2020 08:26 PM

I heard that again and again, that people with CS degree make more money, have a higher quality of life, by going into any other field than the games industry. A friend of mine who considered breaking into the industry after his modding years, rather decided to go into security instead. He made more money in his first year than the directors in Blizzard. Work is just as interesting. He also told me that another upside of working in security is that you don't have to deal with liberal douchebags, since the standards for personnel must be higher and you can't afford risks with mentally ill people. I always dream about making some game, but I would never go into the games industry for a living, and I stay far away from indie games communities.

I crunched pretty hard on personal projects at times. When you are on your own trying to start something up, it's hard, it's all on you, all the risk and reward, and to get anything going you gotta put more effort into it than any regular person would. I would never do that as a simple employee though. Fuck that.

Antdude 01-23-2020 10:08 PM

It's like the industry learned absolutely nothing from the @easpouse debacle. All these years later, nothing has changed.

Chimpbot 01-24-2020 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sensei-X (Post 2552379)
Often these issues arise when someone without a clue of what it takes to make a game gets to set the date (which is to say, practically always) and then the people actually working on the game are forced to get the game done on time "or else".

On the other side of the coin, we've seen the effects of a lack of accountability and fluid deadlines; it almost always turns into a situation of vaporware. At the end of the day, they're working on a product intended to be sold, and someone has to make the decision on when it needs to make it to market.

ascl 01-24-2020 01:24 PM

Quote:

In my experience, developers are ridiculously optimistic. That's part of the reason we can do what we do. We don't think "that can't be done." We think "yeah, we could totally do that."
Quote:

On the other side of the coin, we've seen the effects of a lack of accountability and fluid deadlines; it almost always turns into a situation of vaporware. At the end of the day, they're working on a product intended to be sold, and someone has to make the decision on when it needs to make it to market.
Both of these statements are very true, however that is the job of the leaders, to find the balance between crunch and no deadlines that works. An extended crunch is exploitation and a failure of leadership/planning IMHO. And, as someone else mentioned, jobs in gaming are sought after, which makes them an easy target to underpay and overwork.

stalazon 01-24-2020 05:29 PM

If you don't like the hours vs pay, quit.

Cranium 01-25-2020 05:22 AM

Everybody knows that the dice are loaded
Everybody rolls with their fingers crossed
Everybody knows the war is over
Everybody knows the good guys lost
Everybody knows the fight was fixed
The poor stay poor, the rich get rich
That's how it goes
Everybody knows

Everybody knows that the boat is leaking
Everybody knows that the captain lied
Everybody got this broken feeling
Like their father or their dog just died
Everybody talking to their pockets
Everybody wants a box of chocolates
And a long-stem rose
Everybody knows

Everybody knows that you love me baby
Everybody knows that you really do
Everybody knows that you've been faithful
Oh, give or take a night or two
Everybody knows you've been discreet
But there were so many people you just had to meet
Without your clothes
Everybody knows
That's how it goes

And everybody knows that it's now or never
Everybody knows that it's me or you
And everybody knows that you live forever
When you've done a line or two
Everybody knows the deal is rotten
Old Black Joe's still pickin' cotton
For your ribbons and bows
And everybody knows

And everybody knows that the Plague is coming
Everybody knows that it's moving fast
Everybody knows that the naked man and woman
Are just a shining artifact of the past
Everybody knows the scene is dead
But there's gonna be a meter on your bed
That will disclose
What everybody knows

And everybody knows that you're in trouble
Everybody knows what you've been through
From the bloody cross on top of Calvary
To the beach of Malibu
Everybody knows it's coming apart
Take one last look at this Sacred Heart
Before it blows
Everybody knows


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