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Evil Avatar 05-14-2020 07:59 AM

Unreal Engine 5 Running on the PlayStation 5
 

Quote:

Unreal Engine 5 empowers artists to achieve unprecedented levels of detail and interactivity, and brings these capabilities within practical reach of teams of all sizes through highly productive tools and content libraries.

Join Technical Director of Graphics Brian Karis and Special Projects Art Director Jerome Platteaux (filmed in March 2020) for an in-depth look at "Lumen in the Land of Nanite" - a real-time demonstration running live on PlayStation 5 showcasing two new core technologies that will debut in UE5: Nanite virtualized micropolygon geometry, which frees artists to create as much geometric detail as the eye can see, and Lumen, a fully dynamic global illumination solution that immediately reacts to scene and light changes.

Also present in the demo are next-gen features already available in Unreal Engine 4.25, such as Niagara VFX improvements, Chaos physics and destruction, animation system enhancements, and audio advancements. Unreal Engine 4.25 also includes support for next-gen consoles.
Tim Sweeney also brags up the custom SSD in the PlayStation 5:

Quote:

In an interview with The Verge, Sweeney explained that the PS5 and its custom SSD solution will inform the future of PCs, and that no commercially available products can replicate the speed Sony has achieved yet.

"The storage architecture on the PS5 is far ahead of anything you can buy on anything on PC for any amount of money right now," said Sweeney. "It's going to help drive future PCs. [The PC market is] going to see this thing ship and say, 'Oh wow, SSDs are going to need to catch up with this.'"
GameSpot.

Evil Avatar 05-14-2020 08:01 AM


brandonjclark 05-14-2020 09:15 AM

It's pretty impressive to be sure.

However, if I have one criticism it's how SHARP everything looks.

It's almost like there is no AA in the video.

Anyone watch it on a good monitor and feel the same?

Maybe it's not AA, but something feels off.

shadow763 05-14-2020 09:35 AM

Rocks are pointy.

MechaDangerous 05-14-2020 09:40 AM

Good looking trailer. I don't trust tech demos though for being something other than a pretty video in a small scripted space. While this may look great, what are the possibilities that a full featured game that is hundreds of times larger than this will look the same?

walstib 05-14-2020 10:20 AM

so excited for next gen consoles - PS5 and XsX! And PCs too :)

Amazing - I can still remember at age 6 firing up our 2600 Christmas present and popping Combat in and being entertained for months on that single game alone with my brothers. And now we have this.....

Chief Smash 05-14-2020 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walstib (Post 2559488)
so excited for next gen consoles - PS5 and XsX! And PCs too :)

Amazing - I can still remember at age 6 firing up our 2600 Christmas present and popping Combat in and being entertained for months on that single game alone with my brothers. And now we have this.....

Ah yes. And being the youngest brother, I was always forced to use the bomber against the three planes. Legends tell of the time I almost won once.
http://www.atarimania.com/2600/screens/combat_5.gif

t3kl3r 05-14-2020 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MechaDangerous (Post 2559486)
While this may look great, what are the possibilities that a full featured game that is hundreds of times larger than this will look the same?

Unless the production PS5 is noticeably less capable than the devkit, since this is a playable demo (that apparently would have been available to play at GDC), I assume it's mostly a question of how long it took the UE artists to create this content for such a short session of gameplay, and how that would scale to a full game.

That said, part of what they discussed was how easy it was to import full detail models into the engine without all the extra time usually required for detail reduction for performance. So hopefully that helps.

I'm curious to know how much the PS5 SSD setup is a factor in this demo. The Xbox Series X will have a pretty quick SSD implementation as well (although not nearly as fast), so would there be any difference running this demo on the XBSX? Would we see LOD pop-in or a need for less detail, for example?

It's cool to see how there are going to be different types of rendering approaches that can be utilized for different needs. I can't wait to see more examples of what other teams/engines are implementing or experimenting with.

RAV 05-14-2020 12:31 PM

What he meant was that there have been plenty of tech demos on past generations that didn't really pan out like that, because a demo is a very focused processing, and an actual full featured game much more diverse. I am quite hopeful about this though. Especially in combination with the procedural generation of detail for natural environments, you can afford to have such immense environments.

The PS5 SSD is ridiculously powerful by today's standard, and also rather expensive. It now makes sense why Sony cheaped out on the graphics hardware compared to the Xbox. Assuming they'll end up about the same price after all, Sony chose to invest the money they saved on gfx on the SSD. I think it was the right choice actually, removing the biggest bottleneck in the system. A slightly slower gfx is nothing compared to the advantage of this SSD. This SSD almost works like RAM, DDR2 maybe. You can stream in huge content pretty much by frame. This will be the biggest jump in graphics quality, since now levels can have a size and detail we've never seen before. It doesn't matter if your 1000$ graphics card on PC is more powerful, it can't handle the same amount of content since it's starved by its own little memory. PS5 games should look significantly better than anything for a long while. And actually I heard devs talk about how there will be games relying on this that simply can't run at all on PC or Xbox. Talk about exclusives.

This also reminds of the fast load times the N64 cartridge had over the slow PS CD ROM at the time, and how nice that felt for load times. However the cartridge had too little memory for that, which made it a trade off. This time there is no trade off. The PS5 SSD is like the N64 Cartridge, and everything else is like the PS CD ROM, in terms of relative performance, with no real tradeoff in capacity this time. win win.

Eventually PC will catch up in the next 3 years or so. But this generation of consoles is special in so far that it reminds of the good old times, when consoles weren't obsolete hardware on the day of release, but had architectural advantages over regular PC, making up for raw numbers. You didn't think you'd see that again.

On the other side, streaming on principle is nothing new. Games on PS2 even did that. It's really just about the amount you can do. This console generation will also bump up PC games simply by having SSD be the default standard for games.

Chimpbot 05-14-2020 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAV (Post 2559492)
On the other side, streaming on principle is nothing new. Games on PS2 even did that. It's really just about the amount you can do. This console generation will also bump up PC games simply by having SSD be the default standard for games.

Assuming you end up being correct, it could have the opposite effect the 360/PS3 had on PC gaming; those things held on for so long that it more or less held PC gaming back for a while, due to the number of multiplatform releases. The gaming PC I had before my current one easily lasted a year or two longer than it otherwise should have because of this. Sure, there were some PC exclusives that would have overtaxed it, but the vast majority of titles available at that time were kneecapped out of the gate due to the hardware they were developed for at the time.

vallor 05-14-2020 02:25 PM

Anything that helps break the performance bottleneck while letting the artists go be artists is an amazing advancement.

Nanite sounds excellent and may save a lot of the hair pulling that often comes at the end of a product cycle.

Lighting is another big issue in the same vein; the baking process can take forever and really slows down iteration at times when you can least afford that so most people will only do production lighting builds on demo or release builds due to the sheer amount of time it can take.

Really looking forward to seeing this play out. Of course most people won't migrate for at least a year after general release; upgrading to point releases during a product cycle is hard enough, changing to a new engine version is super risky.

My last project spent a few months validating our update to UE 4.25 before fully integrating that version into the main branch. Granted we had a pretty small team being pulled in a lot of directions.

Clancy 05-14-2020 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAV (Post 2559492)
Eventually PC will catch up in the next 3 years or so. But this generation of consoles is special in so far that it reminds of the good old times, when consoles weren't obsolete hardware on the day of release, but had architectural advantages over regular PC, making up for raw numbers. You didn't think you'd see that again.

This is laughable. You can already purchase a PCIe 4 NVMe M.2 SSD, TODAY.

It isn't that expensive either, the Corsair MP600 1TB is going for $200, and can hit 5GB/sec on AMD boards that support PCIe 4.

Shipping very soon is the Adata XPG Sage (which uses the newer Phison controller than the one Corsair is using), and that can hit 7GB/sec (raw), which is faster than what Sony can do raw, they said 5.5GB/sec.

Now, the only other thing missing for PC owners is a reasonably priced video card that is equivalent to what Sony & MS can do today. If you like rumors, they are saying they should have equivalent hardware for under $500 by Xmas, but this is all before the pandemic stuff going on all around the world, so, no idea is they can keep that timeline or not.

RAV 05-14-2020 04:10 PM

Nah dude, this is unlike anything you could compare it to. First of all, I read the PS5 reaches up to 10GB/s, it also has fantastic latencies. But it's really about the custom controller on this thing and the data compression/decompression rate on the fly. On a regular PC you'd need like 6 to 8 cores from your CPU dedicated only to the data stream handling of this, if you want to take full advantage of the bandwidth. On PS5 you need no CPU at all, since this SSD controller manages all data on its own, getting the data off the SSD, decompressing and placing it into RAM. This here is miles beyond anything you can buy on the PC now or the next couple years, since the entire architecture of the PS5 and the custom coding done for it is specifically optimized in a way that's way outside the scope of PC standardization for the time being.

GinRummy 05-14-2020 04:32 PM

Link broken now.

Hellstorm 05-15-2020 02:39 AM

I am sure Sony is going to make their custom SSD drives veeeeery "affordable", right? Like they have done with all their custom storage formats.

karaliusbronius 05-15-2020 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clancy (Post 2559500)
This is laughable. You can already purchase a PCIe 4 NVMe M.2 SSD, TODAY.

It isn't that expensive either, the Corsair MP600 1TB is going for $200, and can hit 5GB/sec on AMD boards that support PCIe 4.

Shipping very soon is the Adata XPG Sage (which uses the newer Phison controller than the one Corsair is using), and that can hit 7GB/sec (raw), which is faster than what Sony can do raw, they said 5.5GB/sec.

Now, the only other thing missing for PC owners is a reasonably priced video card that is equivalent to what Sony & MS can do today. If you like rumors, they are saying they should have equivalent hardware for under $500 by Xmas, but this is all before the pandemic stuff going on all around the world, so, no idea is they can keep that timeline or not.


So the thing about it is that EVERY PS5 will have those hard drives so developers will be able to use that as a baseline. Developers will not be able to count on that for games on PC because of the wide gambit of hard drives out there and their speeds. Developers releasing their games on PC still have to account for people with 7200rpm hard drives. I'll be getting one of these fancy hard drives once the 7GB/sec ones come out but I will only be a part of the 1%. It will be a long time before that's the norm. Plus when the 7GB/sec ones come out, I'll be throwing one of those in my PS5 too :)

RAV 05-15-2020 03:38 AM

Okay I wanna clarify this. When the talk is about the custom SSD, it really is just shorthand term. The actual magic is the custom controller for handling SSDs. The PS5 SSD itself isn't all that special. As was mentioned, it gets you 5gb/s raw data throughput. But what makes it so special is how the PS5 handles the data stream by its unique controller, which is how it almost doubles its compressed speed in practice at no cost. And that by itself is just part of the awesome speed advantages of the controller for processing IO. In other words, put in a SSD with better base speed, and again it will greatly outperform within the PS5 compared to putting the same into a PC, because of that custom controller handling everything. To have any hopes to somehow emulate the compressed bandwidth on PC, you'd need like a 16 core CPU monster, and it would still perform worse by latencies and such.

excalibur1814 05-15-2020 05:03 AM

2 seconds after the PS5 arrives, Samsung will (more than likely), release a new m.2 ssd that beats it.

I've (we've) heard all of this before.

DrizziTx 05-15-2020 05:17 AM

Gotta say I wasn't too impressed, as someone who heard/seen game engine/sales pitch many times before, it mostly sounds like a smarter engine but not something we didn't see thus far.
There's still smeared textures up close, still seeing juggies, insects escaping the light has been done before, an engine that renders as far as the eye can see has been done well enough times.

The pitch here from my POV is on the tech side, making the engine less complicated to work with, to export art assets into, but to us, the end user/gamer, it's not so amazing as far as innovation goes or bringing something never before seen to the table, feel free to correct me :)

RAV 05-15-2020 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by excalibur1814 (Post 2559535)
2 seconds after the PS5 arrives, Samsung will (more than likely), release a new m.2 ssd that beats it.

I've (we've) heard all of this before.

As long as PC motherboards don't get a similar controller to program for, it doesn't matter. There are more examples in the past when PCs took a while to adopt innovations coming in from the consoles. From widespread adoption of CDROM to various graphics accelerators to larger multicore CPUs, etc. Now it's this controller. Eventually it will come and be standard, but not in 2 seconds, no. The PS will enjoy a feature advantage for some time, just as it did with bringing DVD to the masses before and such. Actually, in some cases, like the loading speed of cardridges, it took us decades to get to that on PC. I don't think the wait will be anywhere this long on this case, but it won't be 2 seconds, because this just isn't about the SSD as such, it's an architectural problem of the system. I think the PS5 will enjoy an advantage in IO processing for the first half of its lifetime. And we'll see custom engines for Sony exclusive titles do some really cool stuff with it you don't see anywhere else for a while. We've seen this happen before.


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