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-   -   Star Citizen funding hits $18 Million- adds FPS-mode? (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197844)

Rommel 09-09-2013 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terran (Post 2244183)
You're investing in the creation of something for the privilege of obtaining the created product. That's STUPID for an investor, which is what you are if you provide the money to produce something, because it makes you a consumer who provides the capital to make a product for nothing but...the product. No ROI. Zip.

Also, donations are for charities, not profit-seeking businesses. I'm not donating a dime to any company. Ever.

Personal designs about what to do with your money is fine, perfectly fine. Labeling it a "Scam," despite it in no way being so, less finer. LESS FINER!

Mazzicc 09-09-2013 02:33 PM

I'm largely pulling out of this conversation due to the degredation to name-calling, but I would like to point out that I see it as an "investment", but not in a profit-sharing manner.

It's not cleanly in either of the broad definitions of investment given on Wikipedia, but I view it as investing in the creation of a worthwile product, and the general betterment of the industry and your entertainment. The return on investment is the product itself, which might not otherwise be created, and the enjoyment you get out of it.

As an analogy, think about how often people use the phrase "I've invested a lot of time in a game", without meaning they're expecting monetary payback, but that they're expecting entertainment payback.

Terran 09-09-2013 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mazzicc (Post 2244205)
I'm largely pulling out of this conversation due to the degredation to name-calling

Huh? I believe I said "stupid" once, in an impersonal/non-specific way ("That's STUPID for an investor"), and Rommel is just...Rommel! He's nuts; don't take it personally! I sure didn't.

Hey Rommel...have a pop tart!

vallor 09-09-2013 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mazzicc (Post 2244205)
I'm largely pulling out of this conversation due to the degredation to name-calling, but I would like to point out that I see it as an "investment", but not in a profit-sharing manner.

There are a lot of ways of being invested in something without having a $ printed on it somewhere. As you say, emotional investment is just as powerful, if not more.

Terran 09-09-2013 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vallor (Post 2244216)
There are a lot of ways of being invested in something without having a $ printed on it somewhere. As you say, emotional investment is just as powerful, if not more.

True, but we're not talking about calling these guys up, offering verbal praise, and getting a game in return. We're talking about cash. Cold, hard cash. They don't offer you the game for kicks, giggles, and happy text messages you send their way.

They want investors. Who are consumers. Whose only return is an end-user consumer product. In other words, they want to keep all of the profit from a product, rather than profit-share with a publisher, a bank, a venture capital firm, or the like, while using the capital of others to create the product.

Genius! Capitalism is grand!

Also, for those who categorically deny the word 'scam' being anywhere near Kickstarters, please Google it (you'll also enjoy the Onion article on the topic, lol!). There have been a number of potentially criminal scams, not just figurative scams, on the site.

vallor 09-09-2013 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terran (Post 2244222)
They want investors. Who are consumers. Whose only return is an end-user consumer product.

Backing a Kickstarter is to investing as donating $20 to PBS for a labeled coffee cup and the biodegradable totebag is "investing" in Downton Abby.

You are donating with no promise of result (and trusting PBS to do what you want with your $20) which is pretty much what Kickstarter does. Of course with Kickstarter you can decide more specifically which show you support.

Quote:

Backing something In other words, they want to keep all of the profit from a product, rather than profit-share with a publisher, a bank, a venture capital firm, or the like, while using the capital of others to create the product.
That's why they call it "backing" instead of investing. There are some crowd funding sites that do go into the investment part. But that's not Kickstarter or Indiegogo or the more common ones.

This lack of accountability or sometimes the overall ethic around some Kickstarters is why I don't back many anymore but that doesn't mean there aren't any worthwhile projects to back.

Terran 09-09-2013 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vallor (Post 2244226)
Backing a Kickstarter is to investing as donating $20 to PBS for a labeled coffee cup and the biodegradable totebag is "investing" in Downton Abby.

That's a pretty decent analogy, actually.

On the other hand, I don't give to PBS, either. :shrugs:

PacerDawn 09-10-2013 07:30 PM

Honestly, I didn't expect much, but even still, I'm a bit underwhelmed by the hanger module myself. You climb a ladder, walk on a catwalk, open the ship airlock, walk around inside and out. You sit at the controls or lie on the bed. That's it. And it's incredibly buggy, huge bugs such as the ship vanishing sometimes and having to restart to get it back.

Yes yes, I understand it's alpha, but it's barely anything. I've seen single developers put together better stuff in a weekend using free tools (just look at Ludum Dare or 7DFPS), and these guys have a team working with millions of dollars. And as tiny as it is, you would think they could have spent a couple of days working out the major bugs at least. But it's like they didn't even bother to debug it before releasing it to clients. I'd be fired if I did something like that at my job.

Of course, they already have my money now so I can't threaten not to buy it, but they still need word of mouth, and right now I'm just not very impressed.

And first impressions are really hard to overcome.

Well, they say they are going to be adding things to it over time, so we will see how things go. It would be awesome if they would add a little something every week, instead of 3-4 month stints.

Terran 09-10-2013 08:17 PM

Quote:

Of course, they already have my money now so I can't threaten not to buy it
See? GENIUS!

Capitalism. Ain't we got fun?


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