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Old 05-02-2016, 06:39 AM   #21
BeachGaara
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Oh, can't understate youtube in it too. I know kids who don't play games anymore, just watch Pewdiepie and such like play them and that's good enough.... apparently.
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Old 05-02-2016, 06:52 AM   #22
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I don't know why anyone would find this surprising though. (I know you didn't say you find it surprising.)

Everywhere I went for a decade, you would read gaming journalist talking about how "the average gamer is 25, 30, 35" or however old they were at the time because they wanted gaming to speak to THEM at the expense of anyone else. Nintendo has been the only gaming company that has been created titles for all-ages (not specifically for children) and companies that make game specifically FOR children make them so brain dead that I don't see how anyone can find them enjoyable.

MS and Sony basically blocked kids out of playing games on their machines. There's nothing for them there.
When did Nintendo really make things for all ages? I mean hell they even censored blood color to green in some titles back on the SNES because OH NOES TOO ADULT THINK OF THE KIDS!

The average gamer for the last decade HAS been 25-35 generally, what rock are you living under?
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Old 05-02-2016, 07:23 AM   #23
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When did Nintendo really make things for all ages? I mean hell they even censored blood color to green in some titles back on the SNES because OH NOES TOO ADULT THINK OF THE KIDS!
...This would be part of the "making things suitable for 'all ages' process". Family-friendly or all-ages events typically restrict things like alcohol consumption and family-friend/all-ages games typically tone down things like violence. Essentially, it means that there are aspects that can be appreciated by a wide range of ages. For example, I would never have a problem letting my kid play a Legend of Zelda game, but it's a series I can still definitely appreciate and enjoy as a 32-year-old.
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Old 05-02-2016, 07:49 AM   #24
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Personally i blame the online focus of consoles for killing the split screen aspect that used to make consoles *more* desirable than PC. GC/X box original/360 and 2/4 player split screen and co-op single player kept me entertained for many a friday nights with friends for years!

Now far too many developers seem to want 1 copy sold per person, playing alone in your room, which my pc does just fine.

So this is my first console gen not owning anything new, because the PC was always better, Got old, and split-screen co-op/multiplayer is no longer a standard in the console industry, and i think it is a damn shame.
in the ps3/360/wii gen, the pc was not receiving many AAA ports, and now it is back getting exclusives.
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Old 05-02-2016, 09:34 AM   #25
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Personally i blame the online focus of consoles for killing the split screen aspect that used to make consoles *more* desirable than PC. GC/X box original/360 and 2/4 player split screen and co-op single player kept me entertained for many a friday nights with friends for years!

Now far too many developers seem to want 1 copy sold per person, playing alone in your room, which my pc does just fine.

So this is my first console gen not owning anything new, because the PC was always better, Got old, and split-screen co-op/multiplayer is no longer a standard in the console industry, and i think it is a damn shame.
in the ps3/360/wii gen, the pc was not receiving many AAA ports, and now it is back getting exclusives.
Yah, I've got to wonder if there's some element of influence to this. Aside from "plug and play" convenience that comes with a set top box, the one thing that really divided the line between PC and Console was couch co-op or local MP. Consoles were livingroom hardware designed with multiple controllers in mind. Games were also often designed this way, and PCs were in peoples offices and bedrooms on a desk, where play with friends and family was much more difficult, especially being that PC games were often only designed for single player or online multiplayer.

But I wonder..if it's part of the bigger pictures that the space that divides the console from the PC is ever shrinking. They're coming dangerously close to becoming the same product. I think that's why there has to be valid console innovation. Steam is working fast to completely close the gap, and consoles are doing the same thing. They're working themselves up to be closer to PCs with GUIs, multimedia functions, hardware upgrading, and games focused on online MP.

Another factor..people who still play console and PC games are what I call "power users". I think...as each generation goes by with less and less gamers playing games on their PC and console...and growing up on smart devices, tablets, etc and their games, the total number of "power users" is shrinking.

So...most people chalk up declines to mobile users. But look at it this way, would anyone on this website, who are almost all "power users", substitute console/pc for mobile? Absolutely not. Or a very small percentage I'd guess. The mobile gaming experience is still too underwhelming for power users. I think this means less kids are actually becoming power users, and are going straight into mobile gaming.
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Old 05-02-2016, 10:33 AM   #26
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Edit: In my opinion, people are too quick to disregard the last-gen consoles. I still have my PS3 and Xbox 360 connected to my TV. Sure, I mostly watch (3D) Blu-rays on the PS3 (thanks to its excellent remote control and more than adequate processing power), but I also still have a heap of PS3 and Xbox 360 games I hope to finish at some point. And I'll play "Gran Turismo 6" until Polyphony finally admits they won't fill the remaining roster of GT Vision cars.
The reason they disregard those consoles is because these are companies in a profits-driven industry -- revenue channels from those consoles are officially dead. They've made any money that they are going to make there already -- those ships have sailed. That pile of games that you want to get to will only affect them at this point if it keeps you from going out and buying new product, and they don't really have metrics for consumers in that boat.
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Old 05-02-2016, 11:05 AM   #27
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The reason they disregard those consoles is because these are companies in a profits-driven industry -- revenue channels from those consoles are officially dead. They've made any money that they are going to make there already -- those ships have sailed. That pile of games that you want to get to will only affect them at this point if it keeps you from going out and buying new product, and they don't really have metrics for consumers in that boat.
Yeah, but the report mentions "dedicated game consoles", and since it's a survey among end users, I'm wondering where all those PS3s, Xbox 360s and especially Wiis went. Did people just conveniently forget that they owned them? Or did the writers of this report cut them from the overall stats? To me, last-gen machines are still perfectly viable gaming machines (well, the PS3 and X360, at least), so they should be counted. Having fewer households with dedicated gaming consoles now would mean that more machines broke or were thrown away than were purchased last year, and I find that highly unlikely.

Well, maybe all current-gen buyers already had a console last gen, thus cancelling any growth...
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Old 05-02-2016, 11:25 AM   #28
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Personally i blame the online focus of consoles for killing the split screen aspect that used to make consoles *more* desirable than PC. GC/X box original/360 and 2/4 player split screen and co-op single player kept me entertained for many a friday nights with friends for years!

Now far too many developers seem to want 1 copy sold per person, playing alone in your room, which my pc does just fine.

So this is my first console gen not owning anything new, because the PC was always better, Got old, and split-screen co-op/multiplayer is no longer a standard in the console industry, and i think it is a damn shame.
in the ps3/360/wii gen, the pc was not receiving many AAA ports, and now it is back getting exclusives.
My son had a friend over yesterday, and a good chunk of time, they spent talking about what they would do when he got back home, so they could play Destiny together. I couldn't agree more....bring back couch Co-op!!!

Rocket League saw a lot of play yesterday though....good for them.
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Old 05-02-2016, 12:16 PM   #29
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There are a number of reasons for why I have skipped consoles this generation for the first time in a long while (I owned a 2600, SNES, N64 - inherited -, Xbox, 360, so I've been at least on the margins of each generation for a long while):

- My kids aren't interested. They're on their phones/tablets or on my 360. They don't care about the XB1, PS4, or Wii. At all. If Nintendo wanted to be relevant to kids today, they'd release more of their original, high-quality stuff on mobile devices other than their own
- As other correctly pointed out, couch co-op is dying, and if I can't play games locally against my family/friends, I'm just not interested, because I refuse to pay for console multiplayer any longer (dropped years ago), which dovetails into the next point.
- Consoles charge for online play when I can get that for free on the PC (excluding some titles like WoW, which I dropped a while back and will never return to).
- Console hardware is just one more expense (plus the controllers and online play!) when I already own a PC that can play games.
- Consoles aren't offering much in the way of exciting, fresh exclusives. Many of their exclusives are series that are long-in-the-tooth and on their umpteenth iteration, or are already also available on the PC.
- Most games on the PC are cheaper at launch, and in my anecdotal experience, especially with digital distribution, prices are much cheaper on the PC long term than for older digital content on consoles. I'm very price sensitive.
- I've already got my PC connected to my large display screen, so 'couch' comfort is already available to me. I've also got access to gamepads, or k/m, and/or mods (for some games) on my PC.
- My licensed content on the PC carries with me to my new hardware. Not so for much of the content in the walled garden of a console. They're often dead ends. I just do not like that. At all. It offends me.
- Consoles are getting on the upgrade train, lol. They also seem to update even more than my PC. Goodness, my son turns on my 360 and it invariably has an update or the title he wants to play has a 'license check' update. Bunch of BS. Plug and play my arse.

Consoles are in trouble, not because they won't make money, but because companies retreat even from growing business sectors if they're not growing enough to suit the stockholders and board/executives. I honestly don't even see a need for them any longer. They're redundant and do most things worse than a PC for additional expense.
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Old 05-03-2016, 07:43 AM   #30
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So...most people chalk up declines to mobile users. But look at it this way, would anyone on this website, who are almost all "power users", substitute console/pc for mobile? Absolutely not. Or a very small percentage I'd guess. The mobile gaming experience is still too underwhelming for power users. I think this means less kids are actually becoming power users, and are going straight into mobile gaming.
I like this point a lot, it does a great job of simplifying the differences in our gen, because you are correct, i will never go without my super computer :P .

Terran is always making more than one intelligent critique, and is generally more right than wrong. Many older games such as me, share his exact common sense regarding bang for your buck, So yes, all the cost advantages of having a pc set up to do everything a console does, and more, is also a more enjoyable experience!!

X-box forgot about making it an enjoyable experience when they flooded the damn console with adds, clunky interface, fees, shitty free games of the month, and the list goes on.
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Old 05-03-2016, 07:55 AM   #31
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X-box forgot about making it an enjoyable experience when they flooded the damn console with adds, clunky interface, fees, shitty free games of the month, and the list goes on.
The ads, while present, aren't at all invasive and typically promote Microsoft's own promotions...such as contests to win free headsets, controllers, etc. The games they hand out with the subscription are, more often than not, pretty damn good. Sure, there are some stinkers from time to time...but I've enjoyed most of what they've offered so far.

That's just me, though. Your mileage may vary.
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Old 05-03-2016, 07:55 AM   #32
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When did Nintendo really make things for all ages? I mean hell they even censored blood color to green in some titles back on the SNES because OH NOES TOO ADULT THINK OF THE KIDS!

The average gamer for the last decade HAS been 25-35 generally, what rock are you living under?
Nonsense.

There were dumb quotes saying the average gamer was "25-30" when an entire generation of kids were buying pokemon like it was a religion. For whatever reason, the industry targeted the generation with the most money to spend, 25-30 year olds, and called them "Average". They targeted those young grown adult males at the exclusion of everyone else, despite the fact that the upcoming generation was more saturated with gamers than any generation previous.

Where do you think all those 20-something millennial gamer women you guys hate so much CAME from? They didn't just suddenly appear out of thin air with strong opinions on how the gaming industry has been neglecting them.

And if you think something "All ages" has to mean "bloody" than you are missing the bigger picture by a mile.
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Old 05-03-2016, 09:29 PM   #33
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I dont want consoles to die but what i mean is i want nintendo to stay relevant. The thing is, them going handheld only and offloading hardware to pc/tablets could cause them to rule the world. Or get caught in the gaming ghetto with everyone else..
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Old 05-03-2016, 09:56 PM   #34
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I dont want consoles to die but what i mean is i want nintendo to stay relevant. The thing is, them going handheld only and offloading hardware to pc/tablets could cause them to rule the world. Or get caught in the gaming ghetto with everyone else..
I think of all the console makers, Nintendo has the best chance. And that's because their hardware is cheap compared to other consoles and marketed towards children. As others have said, power users are gravitating towards PC because:

1. They're older and can afford the initial cost of a PC.

2. The same power users realize the value of PC gaming as Terran so eloquently pointed out. Once you get over the cost of entry, the savings are absurd. The most I've spent on a game in the past five or six years has been thirty bucks. That's an expensive purchase for me. Most of my purchases are usually ten bucks or less. I've also upgraded my rig once in six years and only because I chose to. It easily blows anything the XB1 or PS4 could do and can run a few titles at 4K on 30 FPS or greater. That's pretty crazy.
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Old 05-04-2016, 06:15 AM   #35
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I think consoles have just lost much of what made them desirable compared with a PC. They're basically now a small-form-factor PC. I find myself wondering, 'why bother?'
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Old 05-04-2016, 06:43 AM   #36
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I think consoles have just lost much of what made them desirable compared with a PC. They're basically now a small-form-factor PC. I find myself wondering, 'why bother?'
I'll never forget an article I read a few years back, it was titled something along the lines of, "Consoles are just shitty PCs." Your statement made me think of that. lol.

People like to cite convenience as the reason they prefer consoles. But as many have said, you can easily play from your couch and most PC titles now have native controller support. Aside from building a PC (which is incredibly easy - I did my first build after watching a friend and referring to YouTube), I see no difference. It's a preference or brand loyalty people have, which is fine. But I wish people would just go ahead and acknowledge that then. Consoles aren't any more convenient than PCs. The entry fee of building a PC is also pretty much on-par with a new console.
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Old 05-04-2016, 07:00 AM   #37
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I think that consoles, aside from online gaming, can be a bit more social than PCs. With a console, you still have the ability to sit on a couch and play games with someone else, even if it's just one person playing with others watching. My kids often watch me play a game that is beyond their ability to play and I routinely watch them play whatever games they're into at the time. Most of us who are old enough probably have tons of memories of gaming with other people next to us on the couch all of the time. I love watching some of the Lets Play videos out there where one person is controlling the game and another is there, just laughing or helping out. It's just a fun way to play even if it doesn't happen as much these days. And of course, you can do this with a PC but I think most people sit at a desk alone while gaming on the PC.
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Old 05-04-2016, 07:17 AM   #38
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I'll never forget an article I read a few years back, it was titled something along the lines of, "Consoles are just shitty PCs." Your statement made me think of that. lol.
Technically speaking, that's always been the case. Consoles have always been specialized, under-powered PCs.

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People like to cite convenience as the reason they prefer consoles. But as many have said, you can easily play from your couch and most PC titles now have native controller support.
This has only been really prevalent for...what, maybe the past five years or so? It's a relatively new development, all things considered.

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Aside from building a PC (which is incredibly easy - I did my first build after watching a friend and referring to YouTube), I see no difference. It's a preference or brand loyalty people have, which is fine. But I wish people would just go ahead and acknowledge that then. Consoles aren't any more convenient than PCs.
Again, the difficulty of a PC build has only dropped relatively recently; it wasn't that long ago where it was still a pretty big pain in the ass. The ease of building a PC has dramatically increased in...oh, roughly the past five years or so.

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The entry fee of building a PC is also pretty much on-par with a new console.
To be fair, builds like the one you posted are predicated upon already having a mouse, keyboard, monitor and sound system (and sometimes a case). With the prevalence of laptops and mobile devices, it's entirely conceivable that a first-time builder might not have three out of the four items not included on these build lists. Besides, these sorts of build aren't drastically more powerful than the current crop of consoles and feature absolutely zero future-proofing.

I'm one of those weirdos who owns consoles and a gaming PC (which, admittedly, is in dire need some some upgrades. Still.) and is capable of seeing the merits of both. While I think the "convenience" factor of consoles has diminished over the years and is currently overstated to a degree, the entry fee (both in terms of cost and time) for PCs is being understated as well. It'll cost more than $400 to build a PC that outperforms a console...and you still have to build the friggin' thing. Sure, it'll probably only eat up your Saturday afternoon...but that's still a cost of $400+ (looking at the cost of that build you posted) and 4+ hours of your time. It's more costly than a device that only requires you to open the packaging and attach two cables.

For the time being, the closed environments of the consoles are more convenient than the open environments of PCs in terms of reliability and ease of use.
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Old 05-04-2016, 07:29 AM   #39
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Technically speaking, that's always been the case. Consoles have always been specialized, under-powered PCs.



This has only been really prevalent for...what, maybe the past five years or so? It's a relatively new development, all things considered.



Again, the difficulty of a PC build has only dropped relatively recently; it wasn't that long ago where it was still a pretty big pain in the ass. The ease of building a PC has dramatically increased in...oh, roughly the past five years or so.



To be fair, builds like the one you posted are predicated upon already having a mouse, keyboard, monitor and sound system (and sometimes a case). With the prevalence of laptops and mobile devices, it's entirely conceivable that a first-time builder might not have three out of the four items not included on these build lists. Besides, these sorts of build aren't drastically more powerful than the current crop of consoles and feature absolutely zero future-proofing.

I'm one of those weirdos who owns consoles and a gaming PC (which, admittedly, is in dire need some some upgrades. Still.) and is capable of seeing the merits of both. While I think the "convenience" factor of consoles has diminished over the years and is currently overstated to a degree, the entry fee (both in terms of cost and time) for PCs is being understated as well. It'll cost more than $400 to build a PC that outperforms a console...and you still have to build the friggin' thing. Sure, it'll probably only eat up your Saturday afternoon...but that's still a cost of $400+ (looking at the cost of that build you posted) and 4+ hours of your time. It's more costly than a device that only requires you to open the packaging and attach two cables.

For the time being, the closed environments of the consoles are more convenient than the open environments of PCs in terms of reliability and ease of use.
All good points. Also keep in mind that we all look at PC gaming as a bit of a no brainer. You'd be surprised at the number of people out there who like games but don't really know anything about PC innards. We know that building a gaming PC is easy but there are a lot of gamers who don't even know the first step. Also, the initial cost can be deceiving. Yes you can go cheap on a gaming PC but if you know how to build a gaming PC, you likely won't just go cheap and be satisfied. In my experience, once you start planning the build, the cost quietly goes up and up.
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Old 05-04-2016, 07:35 AM   #40
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Technically speaking, that's always been the case. Consoles have always been specialized, under-powered PCs.



This has only been really prevalent for...what, maybe the past five years or so? It's a relatively new development, all things considered.



Again, the difficulty of a PC build has only dropped relatively recently; it wasn't that long ago where it was still a pretty big pain in the ass. The ease of building a PC has dramatically increased in...oh, roughly the past five years or so.



To be fair, builds like the one you posted are predicated upon already having a mouse, keyboard, monitor and sound system (and sometimes a case). With the prevalence of laptops and mobile devices, it's entirely conceivable that a first-time builder might not have three out of the four items not included on these build lists. Besides, these sorts of build aren't drastically more powerful than the current crop of consoles and feature absolutely zero future-proofing.

I'm one of those weirdos who owns consoles and a gaming PC (which, admittedly, is in dire need some some upgrades. Still.) and is capable of seeing the merits of both. While I think the "convenience" factor of consoles has diminished over the years and is currently overstated to a degree, the entry fee (both in terms of cost and time) for PCs is being understated as well. It'll cost more than $400 to build a PC that outperforms a console...and you still have to build the friggin' thing. Sure, it'll probably only eat up your Saturday afternoon...but that's still a cost of $400+ (looking at the cost of that build you posted) and 4+ hours of your time. It's more costly than a device that only requires you to open the packaging and attach two cables.

For the time being, the closed environments of the consoles are more convenient than the open environments of PCs in terms of reliability and ease of use.
I can get that. Depending on your set-up though, you can easily run audio to the tv or your sound system and a KB/Mouse is like another ten or twenty bucks total. The build I linked states it can run most modern titles at 1080p/60 FPS.

For the past year, I ran my PC directly to the TV. I had extension cables for my KB/mouse. So you can run very close to the build I listed in terms of price. You can also upgrade incrementally if you want better visuals. I still feel that a lot of hardcore console gamers like to make excuses for what is their preference, which again, is fine. But just say it that way.

I had my PC up and running in six hours. Doesn't go against what you said, and there's certainly been bumps, but when I think back to my console days, and that I stopped counting after 21+ RRoD, I wasted a LOT of money. Granted, those were under warranty. But that's just absurd. Something breaks on your PC? If you can figure out what went kaput, just swap the part and go. No warranties voided.
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