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Old 01-28-2020, 10:32 AM   #5881
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Originally Posted by PacerDawn View Post
Maybe you weren't paying attention, but this isn't a bribery case.

Also state the evidence that is overwhelming. Note that allegations are not evidence, so you can't default to "well such-and-such claims this!" Show actual evidence, such as the funds being withheld past the deadline or the Ukraine doing an investigation prior to the funds being released or a recording of Trump demanding quid-pro-quo.

This is your chance to prove yourself. Go for it.
Eyewitness testimony of what people witnessed is evidence in any court in America.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/former-ze...173329344.html
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Old 01-28-2020, 10:41 AM   #5882
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Originally Posted by VenomUSMC View Post
Vidman's concerns are irrelevant. He essentially offered his opinion. He's a Lt. Col, he does not decide U.S. foreign policy. Also, some of what he claimed was false has been rebutted with actual evidence.
In addition, I don't think that Eats knows what Sondland actually said to be bringing him up like that. Not only did he emphasize that he had no evidence or discussions showing quid-pro-quo and he only presumed there was, but he also said this:

Quote:
QUESTION: What did the president say to you on September 9, that you remember?

GORDON SONDLAND: Words to the effect of -- I decided to ask the president in an open-ended fashion because there were so many different scenarios floating around as to what was going on with Ukraine. So rather than ask the president nine different questions, is it this, is it this, is it that, I just said, "what do you want from Ukraine?" I may have even used a four-letter word. And he said, "I want nothing. I want no quid pro quo. I just want Zelensky to do what he ran on," or words to that effect.
I can't blame Eats for not knowing that, though. I looked at liberal sites like CNN for their reporting on the Sondland testimony and, not surprisingly, it was either downplayed or not mentioned in the story at all.

No, CNN isn't biased at all.
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Old 01-28-2020, 10:50 AM   #5883
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Look at the "guns blazing" avatar and how direct his attempts to stir the pot are.
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Old 01-28-2020, 11:05 AM   #5884
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Originally Posted by Eats View Post
Eyewitness testimony of what people witnessed is evidence in any court in America.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/former-ze...173329344.html
Ignoring the fact that your linked story is a literally a "he-said-she-said" and you are selectively choosing which aide to believe based on your bias, eyewitness testimony is also very unreliable.

So basically I have physical evidence that shows you are wrong, while you have no actual evidence and have to rely on unreliable and unproven cherry-picked allegations.

But you are correct and I am wrong?

Gotcha.
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Old 01-28-2020, 12:10 PM   #5885
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Well that's shore mighty neighborly of CNN to start creatin' campaign ads for Trump I recon.
CNN Airs Free Commercial For Trump Campaign

You're right though, this will end up in a campaign ad soon enough.
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Look at the "guns blazing" avatar and how direct his attempts to stir the pot are.
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Old 01-28-2020, 12:14 PM   #5886
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Originally Posted by PacerDawn View Post
Ignoring the fact that your linked story is a literally a "he-said-she-said" and you are selectively choosing which aide to believe based on your bias, eyewitness testimony is also very unreliable.

So basically I have physical evidence that shows you are wrong, while you have no actual evidence and have to rely on unreliable and unproven cherry-picked allegations.

But you are correct and I am wrong?

Gotcha.
Here comes the reply with the same arguments but including the words clearly© and overwhelming® so we know that it's really true.
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Old 01-28-2020, 01:05 PM   #5887
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Here comes the reply with the same arguments but including the words clearly© and overwhelming® so we know that it's really true.
Again repeat the same lies enough and hope people buy it. The left doesn't deal in facts, just narratives of what they wish were true.
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Old 01-28-2020, 01:32 PM   #5888
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Dey sho is gonna git 'im now, I tellya. Rekon he be finisht.

2016 should have been theirs going away, but they acted like arrogant fucktards and blew a winnable election. 2020 they've learned nothing.
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"...boys lining up outside a room to take a turn gang raping a woman?...I went to frat parties where shit like this was going down
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I certainly went to frat parties where girls were getting roofied
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Old 01-28-2020, 02:15 PM   #5889
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In addition, I don't think that Eats knows what Sondland actually said to be bringing him up like that. Not only did he emphasize that he had no evidence or discussions showing quid-pro-quo and he only presumed there was, but he also said this:



I can't blame Eats for not knowing that, though. I looked at liberal sites like CNN for their reporting on the Sondland testimony and, not surprisingly, it was either downplayed or not mentioned in the story at all.

No, CNN isn't biased at all.

Of course I know that. If you say you don't want a quid pro quo and then proceed to describe a quid pro quo using other words it doesn't change what you are doing.

"I know that members of this committee frequently frame these complicated issues in the form of a simple question: Was there a quid pro quo?" Sondland said. "As I testified previously, with regard to the requested White House call and the White House meeting, the answer is yes."
Sondland later said, "Everyone was in the loop. It was no secret."

Now if Sondland was the only one saying this then maybe you would have a point, but everyone is saying this and they are all highly credible witnesses who Trump himself vetted and invited into his circle of trust. Everyone who would be involved in the execution of this plan has testified that it was happening. You are living in a fantasy land with this absurd defense.

How many people does Trump need to tell who testify for you to stop saying this stupid bullshit? Do you need a video of trump saying it into a camera holding up 2 forms of picture id? You are being absurd.
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Old 01-28-2020, 03:47 PM   #5890
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Of course I know that. If you say you don't want a quid pro quo and then proceed to describe a quid pro quo using other words it doesn't change what you are doing.

"I know that members of this committee frequently frame these complicated issues in the form of a simple question: Was there a quid pro quo?" Sondland said. "As I testified previously, with regard to the requested White House call and the White House meeting, the answer is yes."
Sondland later said, "Everyone was in the loop. It was no secret."

Now if Sondland was the only one saying this then maybe you would have a point, but everyone is saying this and they are all highly credible witnesses who Trump himself vetted and invited into his circle of trust. Everyone who would be involved in the execution of this plan has testified that it was happening. You are living in a fantasy land with this absurd defense.

How many people does Trump need to tell who testify for you to stop saying this stupid bullshit? Do you need a video of trump saying it into a camera holding up 2 forms of picture id? You are being absurd.
Or maybe just read the transcript of the actual conversation in question. Oh wait that alone blows your sham impeachment out of the water.
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Old 01-28-2020, 05:20 PM   #5891
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How many people does Trump need to tell who testify for you to stop saying this stupid bullshit? Do you need a video of trump saying it into a camera holding up 2 forms of picture id? You are being absurd.
What an absolute lack of self-awareness you have. Your positions seem solely based on whatever it takes to attack Trump. There is no real logic or consistency outside of that apparent involuntary need to object to anything and everything Orange Man does.

There is a video with audio of then President Obama offering flexibility to Putin with the missile defense in return for less pressure during his re-election. This is what you had to say about that famous video:
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The evidence is not some out of context quotes or someone saying an ambiguous phrase on an open mic or something silly of that nature.
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Originally Posted by Alt-Right Snopes
As he was leaning toward Medvedev in Seoul, Obama was overheard asking for time — “particularly with missile defense” — until he is in a better position politically to resolve such issues.

“I understand your message about space,” replied Medvedev, who will hand over the presidency to Putin in May.

“This is my last election … After my election I have more flexibility,” Obama said, expressing confidence that he would win a second term.

“I will transmit this information to Vladimir,” said Medvedev, Putin’s protégé and long considered number two in Moscow’s power structure.

The exchange, parts of it inaudible, was monitored by a White House pool of television journalists as well as Russian reporters listening live from their press center.
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What is Obama offering? "flexibility" is not consideration. "space" is not something you can ask for in a contract. Also this doesn't even seem to be on the recording, so it is also double hearsay, in addition to not meeting the standard of any kind of agreement.
The transcript of the Ukrainian call involving President Trump has been released. Where does Trump say he's going to give or withhold money based on an investigation into Biden? Vidman testified in favor of the transcript being accurate. Back to you tripping over yourself on the Obama Defense Front:

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That most likely means Obama thinks a deal should be made, but he doesn't want to look soft before an election and give the GOP a talking point. He never asked the Russians to "give him space" or to help him at all. There is no evidence of a quid pro quo here.
Obama didn't say verbatim if Putin gives him space, he'll return the favor concerning the U.S. missile defense system, and thus is ambiguous to you despite your own admission that you believe Obama had domestic political concerns which occurred during his re-election bid. It's innuendo to you; it's "double hearsay."

A literal transcript of the Trump-Ukrainian discussion has been released and Vidman testified to its accuracy. Where in the transcript does Trump say do X for $? I'd like the Obama standard, if you'd be so kind:

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Originally Posted by Eats
Crimes are not innuendo. Contracts require consideration(typically money, but not always). What is the consideration specifically. What is Obama offering? "flexibility" is not consideration. "space" is not something you can ask for in a contract. Also this doesn't even seem to be on the recording, so it is also double hearsay, in addition to not meeting the standard of any kind of agreement.
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Old 01-28-2020, 06:49 PM   #5892
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Is it of national interest to know what the fuck Biden was doing in terms of Ukraine? Damn right it was.

And...that's the end of impeachment right there. Do politicians do things that benefit them? OMG, they do! Shock! Was there a national interest in investigating WTF Biden and his son were doing in Ukraine?

Damn straight. DONE.

Bring on the next 'we gots him now...you betcha!' bullshit from the Dems, lol.
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Old 01-28-2020, 09:16 PM   #5893
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https://www.marketwatch.com/story/i-...of2&yptr=yahoo

Kelly believes Bolton too, but we all know that we should believe trump, the most honest man in the world.
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Old 01-28-2020, 09:21 PM   #5894
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What an absolute lack of self-awareness you have. Your positions seem solely based on whatever it takes to attack Trump. There is no real logic or consistency outside of that apparent involuntary need to object to anything and everything Orange Man does.

There is a video with audio of then President Obama offering flexibility to Putin with the missile defense in return for less pressure during his re-election. This is what you had to say about that famous video:



The transcript of the Ukrainian call involving President Trump has been released. Where does Trump say he's going to give or withhold money based on an investigation into Biden? Vidman testified in favor of the transcript being accurate. Back to you tripping over yourself on the Obama Defense Front:

Obama didn't say verbatim if Putin gives him space, he'll return the favor concerning the U.S. missile defense system, and thus is ambiguous to you despite your own admission that you believe Obama had domestic political concerns which occurred during his re-election bid. It's innuendo to you; it's "double hearsay."

A literal transcript of the Trump-Ukrainian discussion has been released and Vidman testified to its accuracy. Where in the transcript does Trump say do X for $? I'd like the Obama standard, if you'd be so kind:

If there were a ton of reliable witnesses telling us they knew what that was about and it was a quid pro quo and Obama basically told them it was then I would agree with you. This isn't half a sentence out of context. This is everyone involved in the operation telling us straight up what was happening. This is trumps own diplomats and cabinet members. I know you guys are on your knees trying to stuff trumps cock into your mouths but this shit is ridiculous.

Terran is one of the most absurd of you but at least he isn't pretending this shit didn't happen.
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Old 01-28-2020, 09:25 PM   #5895
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https://www.yahoo.com/news/rudy-giul...021158809.html

I mean look at this shit. You don't say a liar is stabbing you in the back, yet here Giuliani is saying Bolton stabbed them in the back. Too bad Trump fired his front stabber.
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Old 01-28-2020, 09:46 PM   #5896
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Is it of national interest to know what the fuck Biden was doing in terms of Ukraine? Damn right it was.

And...that's the end of impeachment right there. Do politicians do things that benefit them? OMG, they do! Shock! Was there a national interest in investigating WTF Biden and his son were doing in Ukraine?

Damn straight. DONE.

Bring on the next 'we gots him now...you betcha!' bullshit from the Dems, lol.
It's of national interest not only with Biden's ties to Ukraine but also John Kerry, Nancy Peolosi and Mitt Romney. Also John Bolten, the warhawk who's done nothing but shill for intervention around the world for decades.
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Old 01-28-2020, 09:47 PM   #5897
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https://www.yahoo.com/news/rudy-giul...021158809.html

I mean look at this shit. You don't say a liar is stabbing you in the back, yet here Giuliani is saying Bolton stabbed them in the back. Too bad Trump fired his front stabber.
Bolton has done more for the military industrial complex than almost any neocon, it's cute that all of a sudden you think he's trust worthy or a reliable source of anything. In other words as usual you're a fucking moron.
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Old 01-28-2020, 10:58 PM   #5898
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Bolton has done more for the military industrial complex than almost any neocon, it's cute that all of a sudden you think he's trust worthy or a reliable source of anything. In other words as usual you're a fucking moron.
I agree with the first part. I don't understand why that makes him unreliable though. He has always been forthright about that and has a reputation for honesty. He has been extremely consistent about his views forever.

Kelly is also a pretty honorable person who is backing up Bolton. All of these people are more reliable and honest than Trump.
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Old 01-29-2020, 01:00 AM   #5899
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I agree with the first part. I don't understand why that makes him unreliable though. He has always been forthright about that and has a reputation for honesty. He has been extremely consistent about his views forever.

Kelly is also a pretty honorable person who is backing up Bolton. All of these people are more reliable and honest than Trump.
Bolton's always been a scumbag warhawk and would say anything to get us into further conflicts around the world. It's likely part of why Trump fired him, Trump as much as you liberal lunatics hate him is trying to pull our guys out of the ME, it's the Zionist and MIC that wants us there forever.
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Old 01-29-2020, 02:16 AM   #5900
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If there were a ton of reliable witnesses telling us they knew what that was about and it was a quid pro quo and Obama basically told them it was then I would agree with you.
Reliable witnesses? We have video with audio. This is great, really. Please continue to show how absurd your position is.

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This isn't half a sentence out of context.
What Obama stated wasn't out of context, and people understand that --unless you're rabidly political like yourself.
Alt-Right News Source CBS: Obama asks Russia for "space" on missile defense
Possible white nationalist reporting source ABC: President Obama Asks Medvedev for 'Space' on Missile Defense - 'After My Election I Have More Flexibility'
Anti-LGBT news source POLITICO: President Barack Obama offered a private request Monday to Russian President Dmitry Medvedev for some “space” on missile defense ahead of November’s elections.
Nazi-aligned WAPO: Caught on open mike, Obama tells Medvedev he needs ‘space' on missile defense
Crazed anti-Obama rag the NYT: “On all these issues, but particularly missile defense, this can be solved, but it’s important for him to give me space,” Mr. Obama could be heard saying to Mr. Medvedev, according a reporter from ABC News, who was traveling with the president. “Yeah, I understand,” the departing Russian president said. “I understand your message about space. Space for you ... .” Mr. Obama then elaborated in a portion of the exchange picked up by the cameras: “This is my last election. After my election I have more flexibility.” “I understand. I will transmit this information to Vladimir,” Mr. Medvedev said, referring to Prime Minister Vladimir V. Putin, who just won an election to succeed Mr. Medvedev.

So, are you rabidly political, stupid, or both? Out of context you say. Ambiguous you say. A fool you are.

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This is everyone involved in the operation telling us straight up what was happening. This is trumps own diplomats and cabinet members. I know you guys are on your knees trying to stuff trumps cock into your mouths but this shit is ridiculous.
Where in the transcript, that Vidman testified to its accuracy, did Trump tie investigating Biden's son to money to Ukraine?

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Terran is one of the most absurd of you but at least he isn't pretending this shit didn't happen.
You illustrate your outright stupidity, again. You're simply too wrapped up in "Orange Man bad" to understand what people are even saying.

According to the transcript, Trump never brought up withholding or adding funds to Ukraine in exchange for an investigation. Despite that, you've screamed quid pro quo. Obama was caught on video offering flexibility in response to his request for space on missile defense. You claim it's ambiguous, but not quid pro quo.

What Terran has offered is that even if the transcript had (which, although you seemed confused, it does not) had Trump saying "investigate Biden to help my re-election bid or I'm going to freeze money going to Ukraine," it is irrelevant because foreign policy is essentially based upon quid pro quo. If the U.S. wants a foreign entity to do something, it largely dangles money or some other incentive like it.

Liberals, like yourself, who screeched about foreign interference in our elections seem to not care unless such a discussion presumably hurts Trump. Reporting indicated, along with a list of actual facts that were documented and provided in a previous post, show Ukraine meddled into our elections. Suddenly its wrong for the sitting President to want an investigation into election meddling by a foreign power.

Here is your Obama defense:
Quote:
What is Obama offering? "flexibility" is not consideration. "space" is not something you can ask for in a contract. Also this doesn't even seem to be on the recording, so it is also double hearsay, in addition to not meeting the standard of any kind of agreement.
What did Trump offer Ukraine in the transcript in return for the investigation?Vidman, who appears to be beyond reproach in your eyes, testified to its accuracy.
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