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Old 03-16-2018, 02:15 PM   #1241
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Sex is considered a physiological need on the basic level of Maslow's hierarchy of needs.
Even if it is (and that's debatable), it has not been proven to be a health hazard. There are no official cases (that I am aware of at least) where a person went crazy or died that can be attributed to not having sex. Any claim we are more prone to heart attacks or going crazy or what not if we don't have sex is purely anecdotal. There are actually a lot of cases of celibacy in the world without negative impact. Many Catholic Priests live long lives for example.

In fact, there are a lot of cases of people dying WHILE having sex. So, technically, it's actually a bigger threat to self to have sex than not to.

And anyway, it is possible to have "sex" without a partner so "I have to have sex" isn't really an excuse.

It's a choice.
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Old 03-16-2018, 02:45 PM   #1242
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I wasn't trying to argue with your main point, I was just pointing out a different way to look at it. I don't necessarily agree with Maslow, but on a certain, instinctual sense, I think he has some kind of point. Mostly though, I was just pointing out a different perspective. As ST said, even if it were a need, it doesn't excuse a casual attitude about unwanted pregnancy or abortion. The lack of responsibility is horrible.
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Old 03-16-2018, 02:56 PM   #1243
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A) I'd say that's a lot more than a few.

B) Who isn't saying it's a moral decision? Believing murdering people is wrong is also a moral decision.

C) If they had scientifically proven that life doesn't exist until you pop out of the mother, then sure, I'd change my stance.

D) I think the fact that you say you wouldn't change your mind in a hypothetical scenario where empirical evidence changed says a lot.
A. Yes. It is a shocking amount. I only meant few relative to the reproductive rates in general, or more specifically, relative to what number would be required to state that the abortion rates were so high that human reproduction could be considered a screw up in general.

B. Specifically, ST, but I couldn't make sense of what was wrong with something involving morality as opposed to biology in his response.

C. OK.

D. Maybe it says a lot, but I don't think in the way you are assuming. If I were suddenly facing an unexpected pregnancy, it would not matter to me if some scientist said life starts at 1 day, 1 month, at birth, whatever. I understand what pregnancy is and what life is and what terminating a pregnancy would mean for my baby. I have all the information I need about what ending that pregnancy would mean for me ever raising that child. So, no, it doesn't make a fucking bit of difference what somebody says about what a zygote is like or what a 3 week old fetus is like or any of that shit. I know if I end it, my child will never live from that point on. It isn't fucking complicated and no, I don't need definitions and stupid terms like nature or genetically distinct to realize that. My point is that I want to do everything possible to take care of that kid and get him out into the world and do the best job raising him I can. At no point during pregnancy do I think, hmmm, what would a scientist say about the role of the notochord at this developmental stage in the embryo? I just focus on doing the right shit to get him out as healthy as I can. I'm done with having kids, but if I could start again today, I would feel the exact same way, and I wouldn't need a human development chart to figure that out.
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Old 03-16-2018, 05:42 PM   #1244
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I know if I end it, my child will never live from that point on. It isn't fucking complicated
Well, at least you're honest about your willingness to allow babies to die needlessly. I'll give you that much.
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Old 03-16-2018, 06:52 PM   #1245
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A. Yes. It is a shocking amount. I only meant few relative to the reproductive rates in general, or more specifically, relative to what number would be required to state that the abortion rates were so high that human reproduction could be considered a screw up in general.

B. Specifically, ST, but I couldn't make sense of what was wrong with something involving morality as opposed to biology in his response.

C. OK.

D. Maybe it says a lot, but I don't think in the way you are assuming. If I were suddenly facing an unexpected pregnancy, it would not matter to me if some scientist said life starts at 1 day, 1 month, at birth, whatever. I understand what pregnancy is and what life is and what terminating a pregnancy would mean for my baby. I have all the information I need about what ending that pregnancy would mean for me ever raising that child. So, no, it doesn't make a fucking bit of difference what somebody says about what a zygote is like or what a 3 week old fetus is like or any of that shit. I know if I end it, my child will never live from that point on. It isn't fucking complicated and no, I don't need definitions and stupid terms like nature or genetically distinct to realize that. My point is that I want to do everything possible to take care of that kid and get him out into the world and do the best job raising him I can. At no point during pregnancy do I think, hmmm, what would a scientist say about the role of the notochord at this developmental stage in the embryo? I just focus on doing the right shit to get him out as healthy as I can. I'm done with having kids, but if I could start again today, I would feel the exact same way, and I wouldn't need a human development chart to figure that out.
You can make perfect sense out of things if you weren't being purposely obtuse on things. You do this often I've noticed, as if you never heard a conservative's point of view on anything and it's all such a new and an unfamiliar thing to you! Never mind that you never actually address anything that is asked to back up why you think the way you do. It's as if throughout history you've simply never heard of government tyranny, hell you equate legal gun owners as tyrannical against those who are afraid of a metal inanimate object. Still waiting for you to clarify that particular comment, I doubt you will however since it's par for the course with hardcore marxists to rather dance around backing up a single damn thing they say. So you agree that abortion is murder, that's great, yet you still support it.
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Old 03-17-2018, 06:20 AM   #1246
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Well, at least you're honest about your willingness to allow babies to die needlessly. I'll give you that much.
Babies die needlessly everywhere. If you gave a fuck than you would change your politics to be a heart bleeding liberal SJW, goto all the third world that your current rhetoric hates, and save their babies.

Yea thats what I thought. You don't give a fuck about babies or the precious fucking unborn either, unless they are political leverage to pop people over the head with that disagree with your stance.

Fuck off Mrs. Lovejoy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_of_the_children
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Old 03-17-2018, 07:07 AM   #1247
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If you gave a fuck than you would change your politics to be a heart bleeding liberal SJW
You think it's liberals that do the work of saving babies' lives globally? HAHAHAHAHA! Is that why they fund abortions of babies globally? And fill the ranks of Christian organizations working around the globe (yeah, right)? And you think it's fallacious to talk about children when the topic is aborting children?

HAHAHAHAHA! You're hilarious!
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Old 03-17-2018, 08:43 AM   #1248
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People - aside from the portion I linked previously - DO have a choice about it. When those people make the choice to have sex, you’re choosing to risk pregnancy. The amount of risk is dependent on a large # of factors, and can be greatly reduced at an extremely small cost.

I assume you’re joking about the idea that the right and left could simply make a trade on these topics. You know that’s not ever going to happen. Even if such an absurd deal were offered, why would any pro 2a person believe the Left? The term “compromise” in the 2a debate seems to mean “face further restrictions that will not address the issue we’re invoking to push this measure and get nothing in return. Oh, and we’ll be back to pursue more restrictions for nothing in return after this.”

As I said earlier, the theoretical deal is absurd. You admit the act of abortion is one of killing a human life, which is objectively harm committed purposely against a human life. Owning a firearm isn’t a harmful act.
And the fear of God/Church / going to hell still doesn't stop people from making the choice to have sex out of wedlock, getting pregnant when not wanted to and even having an abortion. Human nature, can't change it with God, can you change it by passing a fucking law? No you can't. God will forgive all your Sins though ironically, the government will not.
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Old 03-17-2018, 08:56 AM   #1249
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And the fear of God/Church / going to hell still doesn't stop people from making the choice to have sex out of wedlock, getting pregnant when not wanted to and even having an abortion. Human nature, can't change it with God, can you change it by passing a fucking law? No you can't. God will forgive all your Sins though ironically, the government will not.
It's human nature to not put a fucking condom on or take precautions with regards to getting preggers? The straws some of you reach for to speak out about not caring about responsibility is astounding. Basically liberals are a bunch of degenerate fucktards.
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Old 03-17-2018, 09:41 AM   #1250
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Human nature, can't change it with God, can you change it by passing a fucking law? No you can't.
Who wants to change human nature? The heck with that impossible dream. Change the law, change behavior.

Impact of Roe on abortions: Statistics

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According to Solinger’s own source, the Guttmacher Institute, the number of abortions performed in the United States did increase dramatically in the years after Roe. As detailed in the Institute’s most recent abortion fact sheet, the abortion rate climbed dramatically from 1973 to 1981. The number of abortions per 1,000 women aged 15-44 rose from 16.3 in 1973 to 26.4. in 1977 to 29.3 in 1981. The Institute also notes that the number of legal abortions increased throughout the 1970s. (See, e.g., here.) This is due, in large part, to the fact that jurisdictions began liberalizing their abortion laws prior to Roe.
Laws change behavior. They don't change the 'nature' of anything, just the behavior. That would be a step in the right direction, and we've been making those nationwide for quite a few years now.
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Old 03-17-2018, 09:51 AM   #1251
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Who wants to change human nature? The heck with that impossible dream. Change the law, change behavior.

Impact of Roe on abortions: Statistics



Laws change behavior. They don't change the 'nature' of anything, just the behavior. That would be a step in the right direction, and we've been making those nationwide for quite a few years now.
You just proved they should outlaw guns then. It will change people's behavior, no more mass shootings. . Let's outlaw drugs too, that will stop pepole from using them, think of all the lives from overdose you could prevent. And alcohol we should ban that too. Think of all the lives we could save if no one drank and drove. Same mentality with outlawing abortion, thank of all the babies you'd save.
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Old 03-17-2018, 10:07 AM   #1252
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You just proved they should outlaw guns then.
You just saw the stats for abortions and how Roe monumentally increased the number of abortions. Access to legal abortion led to more abortion.

If you read the gun control thread, you'll see the stats related to gun ownership. As guns have doubled...tripled...quadrupled and more in number, gun crime is down to its lowest level in fifty years nationwide. You had a quadruple chance of being shot in a school in the 80s compared to today.

So there you go on the law and behavior.

* Legal abortion meant more abortions by far.
* Legal (more) guns has meant fewer gun deaths by far.

AMAZING!
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Old 03-17-2018, 04:33 PM   #1253
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You just saw the stats for abortions and how Roe monumentally increased the number of abortions. Access to legal abortion led to more abortion.

If you read the gun control thread, you'll see the stats related to gun ownership. As guns have doubled...tripled...quadrupled and more in number, gun crime is down to its lowest level in fifty years nationwide. You had a quadruple chance of being shot in a school in the 80s compared to today.

So there you go on the law and behavior.

* Legal abortion meant more abortions by far.
* Legal (more) guns has meant fewer gun deaths by far.

AMAZING!
I was just giving you shit about guns, they're a right. How about drugs and alcohol which aren't specifically rights? How has our laws modified behavior on those fronts. Sure we have less drunken drivers, but the shit still happens.

I should have added, that yes once you make some thing legal people will do it more often, that is obvious.
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Old 03-17-2018, 05:36 PM   #1254
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I was just giving you shit about guns, they're a right. How about drugs and alcohol which aren't specifically rights? How has our laws modified behavior on those fronts. Sure we have less drunken drivers, but the shit still happens.
Not to interrupt a good Terran spasm but I will note we outlawed alcohol once before in the 18th Amendment and the entire Temperance movement.

If you were to have a similar movement today certainly porn, teen sex, the type of sex education in schools, and the levels of what I'm sure people consider "open dubatchery" today would be included in the realm of such an amendment.

Also, remember during the time of the Voldsted Act and the 18th Amendment cocaine had only just become illegal (primarily driven by fears of "Cocaine Negro Fiends" and heroin was still legal.

At the end of the day we all know of the unprecedented level of carnage brought on by the rise of rival gangs, speakeasies, and the illegal bootlegging. In 1932 FDR added the end of Prohibition to his presidential platform (supposedly for pure economic reasons rather since the liquor industry would be a post-depression boon) and the 21st Amendment was ratified to repeal the 18th.

Anywho, The More You Know(TM).
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Old 03-17-2018, 05:56 PM   #1255
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Not to interrupt a good Terran spasm but I will note we outlawed alcohol once before in the 18th Amendment and the entire Temperance movement.

If you were to have a similar movement today certainly porn, teen sex, the type of sex education in schools, and the levels of what I'm sure people consider "open dubatchery" today would be included in the realm of such an amendment.

Also, remember during the time of the Voldsted Act and the 18th Amendment cocaine had only just become illegal (primarily driven by fears of "Cocaine Negro Fiends" and heroin was still legal.

At the end of the day we all know of the unprecedented level of carnage brought on by the rise of rival gangs, speakeasies, and the illegal bootlegging. In 1932 FDR added the end of Prohibition to his presidential platform (supposedly for pure economic reasons rather since the liquor industry would be a post-depression boon) and the 21st Amendment was ratified to repeal the 18th.

Anywho, The More You Know(TM).
You rock and I am well aware what transpired back then. It is real hard to curb human nature by out lawing it. Education works best. And of course we would just make more criminals if we out lawed abortion, because Doctors, to patients would still want to do it.
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Old 03-17-2018, 06:51 PM   #1256
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How about drugs and alcohol which aren't specifically rights?
Technically alcohol is allowed constitutionally (it is a weird one in that it's constitutionally banned then not banned...so a right? Whatever!). As far as criminalization actually lowering negative behaviors related to either, we both know that hasn't worked. So add it to my list:

* Legalizing abortion made far more of it. So make it more legally difficult to lessen it!
* Legalizing and increasing weapon ownership has seen a drastic decrease in violent crime. So get rid of gun free zones!
* Criminalizing drugs/alcohol hasn't prevented them, so legalize them both for adults.

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It is real hard to curb human nature by out lawing it. Education works best.
Education does NOT change behavior. The most highly educated century in all of human history was also the bloodiest in all of human history (the twentieth). The idea that we can just educate the stupid out of people is...stupid.

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...
Please stop humping my leg, lol.
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Old 03-17-2018, 07:04 PM   #1257
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Technically alcohol is allowed constitutionally. As far as criminalization actually lowering negative behaviors related to either, we both know that hasn't worked. So add it to my list:

* Legalizing abortion made far more of it. So make it more legally difficult to lessen it!
* Legalizing and increasing weapon ownership has seen a drastic decrease in violent crime. So get rid of gun free zones!
* Criminalizing drugs/alcohol hasn't prevented them, so legalize them both for adults.



Education does NOT change behavior. The most highly educated century in all of human history was also the bloodiest in all of human history (the twentieth). The idea that we can just educate the stupid out of people is...stupid.
Time to go back to the dArk ages then, nothing works apparently. I am not sure if education is strictly to blame for this century, globalization, mechanization and sheer increased lethality of arms might be more to blame then educatiin. But never fear we do still operate under MAD, mutually assured destruction, so maybe soon we will go back.
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Old 03-18-2018, 01:32 AM   #1258
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Time to go back to the dArk ages then, nothing works apparently. I am not sure if education is strictly to blame for this century, globalization, mechanization and sheer increased lethality of arms might be more to blame then educatiin. But never fear we do still operate under MAD, mutually assured destruction, so maybe soon we will go back.
Or maybe just put a fucking condom on. Dark ages.. jfc.
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Old 03-18-2018, 11:26 AM   #1259
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Can't wait for the IG report. Shat is going to hit the fan. McCabe, Comey, Strzok, Page, etc. are all going to be exposed. It's going to be ugly, but sunlight is a great disinfectant. Progressives, be careful what you wish for, lol. You're going to get it good and hard.

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Time to go back to the dArk ages then
Are the dArk ages related to Noah or Joan?
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Old 03-18-2018, 04:48 PM   #1260
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And the fear of God/Church / going to hell still doesn't stop people from making the choice to have sex out of wedlock, getting pregnant when not wanted to and even having an abortion. Human nature, can't change it with God, can you change it by passing a fucking law? No you can't. God will forgive all your Sins though ironically, the government will not.
I don't expect the law to change human behavior. I never suggested that all abortions would stop if any and all abortions were deemed illegal.

The government also has a habit of completely ignoring the sins - which to the state, seems to mean breaking the law - in some cases, and to completely twist laws to punish some in other cases.

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You just proved they should outlaw guns then. It will change people's behavior, no more mass shootings. You just proved they should outlaw guns then. It will change people's behavior, no more mass shootings. . Let's outlaw drugs too, that will stop pepole from using them, think of all the lives from overdose you could prevent. And alcohol we should ban that too. Think of all the lives we could save if no one drank and drove. Same mentality with outlawing abortion, thank of all the babies you'd save.
An abortion is the intentional act of killing human life, and is legal (obviously with some restrictions and whatnot). Is that what owning a firearm equates to? No, owning a firearm does not mean that you've intentionally murdered a child. Is the act of gunning down innocent children with a gun legal? No. We've deemed murder, to include mass shootings, to be illegal. Abortion is the act of killing in this context -- owning a firearm is not, making your argument absurd. The evidence points to an increase in abortions after the legalization.

Can laws change behaviors? Yes, they can -- that's the entire point of many of them. Is there anything that you don't do - doing 40mph over, carrying a firearm certain places, buying certain things, spending/investing your money in a certain way, etc. - that is affected by laws? I'd wager that there is. The question isn't if they can, it's if they will, and what other effects will come from such laws.

As for the topic of drugs, here is a claim concerning legalization of one type:
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