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Old 05-10-2011, 08:41 AM   #61
3Suns
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Avatar View Post
I saw it and it is pretty slimy for a big site to have their reviewer never even having completed the campaign, but the question is: "How long do you have to play a game to know it sucks?" and the answer is "Not long."

Do you think sitting through more of a bad game would have made it into a good game? Did you have to play Iron Man 2 for more than 3 minutes to know it was complete crap?
A legit question.

Is it fair if a book critic pans a book without having read it, or a movie without having seen it?

I agree with you that it doesn't take long to discern a truly, objectively bad game (Superman N64), or one with such broken controls that it simply cannot be cracked to find out (e.g., Lair). In the case of Brink, however, competitive sites like Eurogamer are offering some pretty lofty praise "this is often a more engaging, tighter experience than Valve’s Team Fortress 2."

Certainly, a "critic" (in this case, recognized by "Metacritic") must be held somewhat more accountable than say, a random commenter in a forum.

If there isn't a moral imperative here, I can at least identify some factors that should be considered:

Don't comment on what you haven't played. If you don't finish an RPG, then don't comment on its story. It could be that the story starts slow but has a big payoff towards the end. I know that shows like The Wire would find very few fans at all, if they all stopped watching half way through the first season.

The overall length of the game - is the game a 10 hour game or an 80 hour game (i.e., are we asking for some of the reviewer's time, or are we asking for weeks of his/her time)? If playing to the end is only a matter of putting in a couple more hours, why not? Same with complexity of a game - the more complex, the more time one should play with it.

To what extent is the review outside the normal curve? The greater it varies from the norm, the greater the effect is going to be on the developer. If your impact is huge, better get it right. In this economy, a poor review could cost jobs, maybe even shutter a company. A falsely optimistic review could cost customers hard earned money.

If the game is so broken as to be unplayable - the reviewer could just say so. This game was so broke ass, I couldn't/wouldn't play to the end.

Disclosure and honesty shouldn't be something we have to ask reviewers for.

Ultimately, people assume that the reviewer has "completed"* the game, wherever and whenever possible. Certainly, and especially because the game is relatively short to begin with, I expected that of the Joystiq reviewer.

*Even "completed" is a loaded word, because of the nature of games and all the extra "side missions" etc.
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Old 05-10-2011, 08:50 AM   #62
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Fuck, I'm so annoyed I bought it on a whim last night off Amazon. It might still be fun. Worst case scenario, I trade it in a week later towards Infamous 2.
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Old 05-10-2011, 09:04 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by 3Suns View Post
...Lots...
I think that due to the nature of games there is more validity than if a reviewer didn't finish a movie or a book, but there is still clearly an issue. Maybe the "We aren't going to review this now because its really bad" approach is better? I tend to think its a cop-out, and a more honest approach is to just release a scathing review then update it when the game is fixed, but there's a debate to be had.

Also, since this is a multiplayer only title, you could say that you've "completed" the game once you've attempted every objective type and map. And if multiplayer isn't fun over the course of 5 or 6 hours then I think its fair to declare a game terrible.
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Old 05-10-2011, 09:14 AM   #64
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I hate to be one of those guys, but I could tell Brink would suck when they debuted it. I hate being one of those guys who says CS was best back at ver whatever or that Unreal Tournament was the best ever, but I know I had more fun playing those games than I do source or TF2.

Why? is it nostalgia? am i just older? all the above and more? who knows
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Old 05-10-2011, 09:15 AM   #65
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I disagree with that approach Orphiuchus, releasing a scathing review is damage done versus just not saying anything or saying that your review is being delayed because of reason X.
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Old 05-10-2011, 09:23 AM   #66
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I would update the main article somehow (or a follow up item) though since this isn't an EvAv review and Metacritic's pulled in a lot of positive reviews now.
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Old 05-10-2011, 09:30 AM   #67
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So at this point the average score is looking about a 7, Evil Avatar refused to review it yet put up the headline "Is Terrible," and now this very thread is one of the most popular on GameTab.

Way to kneecap a game, Evil Avatar. Sure it's not the best game in the universe but it does do a lot of things very well and it's definitely not "terrible."
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Old 05-10-2011, 09:40 AM   #68
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Kragg hyped this for me...what happened?
He played 30 minutes of it and it was great.

Has anyone mentioned that this game is going to be a dream for the PC community to play around with and mod once all this hype/hate dies down?

If not I'll mention that for the record.

Also, yeah, one thing they did NOT tell me is that it would only launch with 8 maps. That seems pretty slim for a multiplayer-centric title.

So by all accounts, it's looking like this game will hit that $35 sweet spot I like by the time PSN is back up for me to check it out.
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Old 05-10-2011, 09:45 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Sloth View Post
Why? is it nostalgia? am i just older? all the above and more? who knows
As adults age they naturally become more paranoid and cynical. That should be me at the age of about 108.

I honestly believe tho that as gamers age the older games seem more appealing because they were more transparent, thus less paranoia. Nobody was hacking or blaring obnoxious music in your ear. You didn't have to deal with brb, stufu, or a/s/l?

Games are better when you have more fun. Sadly, the only we get, the more difficult it is for adults to block out the other noise and just have fun. To those who enjoy games for what they are, it's my hope we never grow up.
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Old 05-10-2011, 09:48 AM   #70
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Eh- In my eyes Ars has never really been a review site so Im not going to shit my gamer pants if they want to write some odd article like that. I will read it though and understand what they are saying. Dont buy this game yet. let them fix it up a bit.

I dont know what to think of brink. I LOVE teamwork in my FPS games. Love it. Covet it even. And I really dig the art style they have gone with here. Very comic book like. But there is still something about it that isnt grabbing me.
To point, more specifically Ben Kuchera loves to stir the pot by slamming out these "non-reviews". He did it with Castlevania:LOS as well. He'll dump a bunch of negativity and then say "this is NOT a review".

I still stand by my theory that hate-tweets directed at his account somehow directly count towards monthly site traffic over at Ars.
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Old 05-10-2011, 09:49 AM   #71
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So at this point the average score is looking about a 7, Evil Avatar refused to review it yet put up the headline "Is Terrible," and now this very thread is one of the most popular on GameTab.

Way to kneecap a game, Evil Avatar. Sure it's not the best game in the universe but it does do a lot of things very well and it's definitely not "terrible."
I don't comment very often but I agree with Lobster and wanted to say something. Headlines are pretty powerful and the impression I get from this one is here is a chance to capitalize fast on a few reviews to move a story to the top of the aggregation heap. I am a EvAv fan and have been for years, but I'm not a fan of hyperbole and that's what I see in when I read, "Brink Launches, Is Terrible".

As for the game, I'm hoping for good things and am planning on giving it a try when I get done with work. I appreciate the game impressions others have given in this thread and will take a chance on what the EvAv community has to say over some of the reviews I have been reading.
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Old 05-10-2011, 09:51 AM   #72
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First, I agree that it would be appropriate for a red to update the post with more reviews. I cant do anything about whats in the post now, and if reviews have trended higher since the initial batch then it should probably be updated.

Quote:
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I disagree with that approach Orphiuchus, releasing a scathing review is damage done versus just not saying anything or saying that your review is being delayed because of reason X.
I would agree except that they would never wait to review a lower profile title like they are going to with this one. The game, as shipped, has these issues. If they don't want the game reviewed on the basis of the problem before the first patch then they shouldn't release it in this state. I'm all for updating the reviews as the games get fixed, but at the moment they have a bad game that they are declining to review because they think it might be better in the future. Not really fair IMO.
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Old 05-10-2011, 09:53 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LobsterMobster View Post
So at this point the average score is looking about a 7, Evil Avatar refused to review it yet put up the headline "Is Terrible," and now this very thread is one of the most popular on GameTab.

Way to kneecap a game, Evil Avatar. Sure it's not the best game in the universe but it does do a lot of things very well and it's definitely not "terrible."
This.

Ive noticed a very obvious decline in the last year, a kind of fast and loose unprofessionalism that wasn't as blatant in the past.
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Old 05-10-2011, 09:53 AM   #74
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I played it all last night and had a blast.
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Old 05-10-2011, 10:01 AM   #75
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This.

Ive noticed a very obvious decline in the last year, a kind of fast and loose unprofessionalism that wasn't as blatant in the past.
To be fair, its a user submitted story awaiting a red to update the review totals at the bottom.
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Old 05-10-2011, 10:05 AM   #76
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This looked like CRAP to me at PAX. Glad to see I was not wrong.
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Old 05-10-2011, 10:23 AM   #77
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Friends and myself have been trying to play on Xbox and its been so laggy that its unplayable. Even had a friend trying to play who told me hes having the same problems.

How is the multiplayer running for everyone else on the 360?
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Old 05-10-2011, 10:32 AM   #78
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after playing on my lunch (single player only) I think the game is pretty fun. The bots are craptastic! but I'm having fun with it.
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Old 05-10-2011, 10:38 AM   #79
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Doesn't the ability to dynamically change classes nullify the basic theory behind the class system? This isn't like in Team Fortress, here the classes are needed overcome specific obstacles and perform known tasks within a defined role. Being able to change on the fly renders such gameplay moot.
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Old 05-10-2011, 10:43 AM   #80
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@Agnostic Pope: Journalism tries not to waste words in headlines. If they have more than one thing to say about a subject, they'll separate the two sentences with a comma and leave the subject out of the second statement. Instead of "Brink is terrible" you have ", is terrible" because we already know they're talking about Brink.

@Cygnus: Numbers sold doesn't equal quality. It equals numbers sold. It's a okay indicator of quality, but not definitive. I still haven't played HF. I was really hoping it would be good. But everything everyone says tells me otherwise. : [

I was hoping this would be good, too. Same with MoH, which I also still haven't played. Hmm. I'm dodgin' bullets like Neo, it seems.
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