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Old 11-28-2017, 06:26 AM   #21
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Quote:
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Edit: And NO, you can't magically 'declare him an adult' in court for the purposes of contract law. That's nonsensical bullshit idiocy.
No, they can't magically do it; it all depends upon the severity of the crime. I don't think they will do this, but for the sake of discussion, it's certainly plausible.

If the kid was actively involved with the development of the software that may or may not have directly impacted Epic's bottom line, it's conceivable a judge could be swayed to treat the kid as an adult in this case. Granted, this isn't likely to happen...but again, discussion, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonjclark View Post
Trying kids as adults for non-violent crimes is ridiculous.
It varies from state to state, but trying minors as adults isn't technically limited to violent crime; if the criminal act is serious enough, it can be decided to bump it up. Grand larceny is grand larceny, y'know?
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Old 11-28-2017, 06:44 AM   #22
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No, they can't magically do it; it all depends upon the severity of the crime. I don't think they will do this, but for the sake of discussion, it's certainly plausible.
No, you can't declare a minor an adult to make a binding contract requiring adults binding for the kid as well. Minors cannot legally engage in binding contracts that require adult parties. Criminal law allows this wiggle room, but contract law does not allow you to declare 'adulthood' based upon a whim in order to make a contract magically legal.

Do not pass Go, do not collect $200.
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"...boys lining up outside a room to take a turn gang raping a woman?...I went to frat parties where shit like this was going down
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Old 11-28-2017, 07:12 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Terran View Post
No, you can't declare a minor an adult to make a binding contract requiring adults binding for the kid as well. Minors cannot legally engage in binding contracts that require adult parties. Criminal law allows this wiggle room, but contract law does not allow you to declare 'adulthood' based upon a whim in order to make a contract magically legal.

Do not pass Go, do not collect $200.
Sure, but I'm not talking about the EULA; I'm talking about the act(s) the kid may or may not have committed. The EULA plays no part in what the kid did or did not do...which is what would determine whether or not the kid would be tried as an adult.
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Old 11-28-2017, 07:46 AM   #24
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Good luck convicting a kid as an adult for online/virtual behavior that was allowed to occur because he was allowed by the provider of the service platform to enter into an adult contract while a minor.

You'll need it.
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Old 11-28-2017, 07:48 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Terran View Post
Good luck convicting a kid as an adult for online/virtual behavior that was allowed to occur because he was allowed by the provider of the service platform to enter into an adult contract while a minor.

You'll need it.
As I mentioned repeatedly, I doubt it would ever pan out. I brought it up for the sake of discussion...because that's all we've got at places like this.
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Old 11-28-2017, 09:34 AM   #26
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as a minor can you even actually challenge a DMCA takedown?
That might be the big question. If they can prove he did this on the advice of his lawyer mother, she might have a hard time explaining that she didn't consent to his playing Fortnite.
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Old 11-28-2017, 09:35 AM   #27
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I brought it up for the sake of discussion.
Oh, okay.

Ice cream and unicorn rainbows. Just for the sake of discussion.
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Old 11-28-2017, 04:07 PM   #28
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Good luck convicting a kid as an adult for online/virtual behavior that was allowed to occur because he was allowed by the provider of the service platform to enter into an adult contract while a minor.

You'll need it.

Put this way its pathetic. What a petty world it has become. BRB, gonna go get some MC D's coffee. Where it all started.

Just ban the hacker, patch the hole and go fuck yourself. American video games are 99% toxic garbage.
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Old 11-28-2017, 04:41 PM   #29
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The reaction from Epic was stupid. Whoever thought it would work should be fired.
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Old 11-28-2017, 04:57 PM   #30
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If I found out my son was using hacking tools and or exploits and then broadcasting this I would probabaly just nuke his pc entirely, give him Linux and open office for school work and thatís all.
Give him DSL Linux at that! lol
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Old 11-28-2017, 07:51 PM   #31
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Put this way its pathetic. What a petty world it has become. BRB, gonna go get some MC D's coffee. Where it all started.
Everyone grossly misunderstands that case. The woman who burned herself simply wanted McDonald's to cover the medical costs she incurred because of the burns she received due to their coffee. It was the jury that awarded her the ridiculous amount of money.

Her initial lawsuit and demands were not petty or unreasonable.
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Old 11-28-2017, 11:25 PM   #32
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Whatever happens i hope epic gets the cheaters under control without waiting for the courts to help them, and i hope the kid and his mom have the opportunity to return to normal life soon. When i was his age, i was already seeding files on irc more than 12 hours a day so i got distribution privileges, hacking games online (i still enjoy hacked items in dying light) and offline, My dad thought it was cool i could access movies that were not out on dvd.

I can only imagine if i had lived in the states and the music industry tried to sue me for my downloads!

we will see what happens i guess
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Old 11-28-2017, 11:56 PM   #33
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Sure, but I'm not talking about the EULA; I'm talking about the act(s) the kid may or may not have committed. The EULA plays no part in what the kid did or did not do...which is what would determine whether or not the kid would be tried as an adult.
Without the eula what did he even do though? Using a cheat isn't actually illegal. It is only against eula, and breaking that is maybe a crime(which is fucked up imo) except he didn't legally agree to the eula in the first place.

The only thing I can think of is maybe IP violation for streaming EPIC's content and then challenging a lawful DMCA. That is civil though I think...
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Old 11-29-2017, 03:19 AM   #34
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Without the eula what did he even do though? Using a cheat isn't actually illegal. It is only against eula, and breaking that is maybe a crime(which is fucked up imo) except he didn't legally agree to the eula in the first place.

The only thing I can think of is maybe IP violation for streaming EPIC's content and then challenging a lawful DMCA. That is civil though I think...
From a post (not the article!) at Gamasutra:
Quote:
There were several issues with this:

1) the kid continually created new accounts to circumvent bans. So yes, EPIC did try to ban him but he continued to cheat with new credentials and fake names

2) He was creating YouTube content to advertise and sell cheating software clearly against EPIC's EULA. It's not just the videos, but the programs that are also derived from EPIC's software properties in a non-transformative, invasive way. I've seen mixed reports about him potentially contributing to the cheat programs as well- but nothing corroborates that and I think they're confused with the other case

3) He was contacted and put on legal notice about his breaking the EULA, but continued to try to circumvent measures to stop him- including, but not limited to, challenging the DMCA takedown. There's no way he wouldn't know he was acting illegally after this.

4) EULAs are, in fact, legally binding and have been honed by the system over the years. Court is the only means of enforcement, and his age does not disqualify him from legal scrutiny. He will not, however, be responsible for the damages, that will fall on the parents who provide the internet access and "supervision" (or lack thereof). What I believe is that this case will serve as a precedent and, ideally, EPIC won't actually pursue damages at the end- they're just using them to make a point that the EULA is enforceable and to be followed if you want to play their game. Personal decisions not to read them do not mean they bear no weight
And as an additional bit of information (the actual comment starts at 5:45):

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Old 11-29-2017, 04:44 AM   #35
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Everyone grossly misunderstands that case. The woman who burned herself simply wanted McDonald's to cover the medical costs she incurred because of the burns she received due to their coffee. It was the jury that awarded her the ridiculous amount of money.

Her initial lawsuit and demands were not petty or unreasonable.
Is that right? lol I never knew.
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Old 11-29-2017, 06:22 AM   #36
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Is that right? lol I never knew.
Most people (myself included) didn't know the truth about that case and many continue to use it as the "prime example" of frivolous lawsuits and our litigious society.

It bugs me, because the lady in question was extremely reasonable; she wanted $20,000 to cover her medical expenses and lost income...and McD's offered a mere $800, so she took them to court.

It was the jury who felt like they needed to "stick it to The Man" and awarded her $3 million.
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Old 11-29-2017, 09:14 AM   #37
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Without the eula what did he even do though? Using a cheat isn't actually illegal.
Should it be though? Or at least the outcome? If players are cheating a lot in a game, people do not play that game and that hurts the developer. So while the cheating in and of itself isn't necessary illegal, I can see where causing loss of business might be actionable.

The problem there would be in proving that it was the cheating that caused the loss of business, and not some other reason (the game isn't good, not enough content, etc).
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Old 11-29-2017, 09:22 PM   #38
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Should it be though?
No, never. You patch the cheat. The end. This isn't even real fucking life.....Holy shit. Its goddam pac man for gods sakes.
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Old 11-29-2017, 10:07 PM   #39
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No, never. You patch the cheat. The end. This isn't even real fucking life.....Holy shit. Its goddam pac man for gods sakes.
Getting jail time because of cheating in a videogame. I'm sure there are other things that deserve jail instead of: annoying people by not following the rules in a game.
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Old 11-30-2017, 09:46 PM   #40
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Part of finding a flaw in Fortnite is dangerous for Epic and their engine team.

If it's a system bug with UE4 any team that uses that unmodified system could be vulnerable to the hack.
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