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Old 03-13-2019, 04:43 PM   #61
Chief Smash
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Originally Posted by excalibur1814 View Post
. I'm all for women having the same power, or more, as they have to carry children and have their bodies broken.
...
There's a lot of men with a lot of issues out there! It's pretty obvious.
These parts are over dramatic. Women deserve equal dignity and protection under the law. Iím not handing them more power just because they can have kids though.

And of course there are a lot of men with issues. Thereís a lot of women with issues too. Itís part of being human. Youíre white knighting a bit here.
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Old 03-13-2019, 05:27 PM   #62
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Did anyone answer the question on if there's anything at all in the movie that needs to be known to setup Endgame?

Yeah yeah, Captain Marvel is the most powerful person in the universe, no known weakness, blah blah blah. Can handle Thanos single-handedly but decided to let half of the universe get snapped out of existence instead.

Anything else in the backstory necessary to know?
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Old 03-13-2019, 05:27 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by LostToys
The problem with films like Captain Marvel is that they really push it too far. Every male character in her life, aside from meeting Fury and Coulson, has been a massive and total dick. Baseball teamates. Dicks. Brothers. Dicks. Father. Total dick. Fellow Air Force cadets. Dicks. Male pilot. Dick. Person training her. Dick. Man on motorcycle. Dick.

It is this lack of nuance which gets people upset, not that there is an all-powerful female super hero in a male dominated world.
Yeah, exactly. This sort of more or less subtle messaging I am also more concerned about than the more obvious stunts.

So the transmitted idea is:

The only reason girls may not be as powerful as any man, or have any sort of setback in life, is because boys are not supportive enough, or even mean to them.

Well there are exceptions of course. The black guy, the nerd guy, and the other girls that really really love them, will always be there for them.
This is what intersectional Feminism really means: this is your common enemy, join forces and fight that guy!
This is the only way you can achieve anything in life, since the only reason you haven't yet is because that bully doesn't want you to.

Men love and support their mothers, sisters, wives and daughters. They love them more than anything, love them more than even themselves.
They even worship them. Throughout all human existence. So much for respect. It doesn't take a Feminist to teach men all that.

It's not about power. it's not about who has more power. Men and women do for each other what is within their power.

But of course there are also tensions between them. There sure is no shortage of complains and misgivings on each other, if you really want to go there -- you really don't.
And just as women may at times feel reduced to just their looks, men often feel not more worth than the money they have in the pocket.

What i see these political movements do is put the focus entirely on the tensions, while completely omitting the story of love.
What men and women have done for each other, the sacrifices and amazing acts of courage.

In reality, you see all these heavy metal dude bros cheering on female MMA fighters in the ring. Those guys are actually the vast majority of the crowd.

Men and women need each other, and their relations are highly complex. it's a never ending story.
And the purpose of good stories is to remind each other, why despite all our differences, we find to each other.

For most great men, you see loving and caring mothers and wives behind them.
For most great women, you see loving and caring fathers and husbands behind them.

But how a Marxist reads that is:
Make women resentful towards their strong men, so the "system" breaks down, weakens men, weakens the country.

And how a pathetic weasel reads it is:
Make women resentful towards worthy men, so that even a pathetic weasel has a chance to get some.

Last edited by RAV; 03-13-2019 at 06:23 PM..
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Old 03-13-2019, 05:52 PM   #64
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Did anyone answer the question on if there's anything at all in the movie that needs to be known to setup Endgame?
Absolutely nothing, no. The film takes place in the mid-90s, so it predates everything except for the original Captain America film. This film is really just a stop-gap to introduce a new character whom will be in End Game.

Quote:
Yeah yeah, Captain Marvel is the most powerful person in the universe, no known weakness, blah blah blah. Can handle Thanos single-handedly but decided to let half of the universe get snapped out of existence instead.
As for how powerful Captain Marvel is, this is not something that is really explored in this film. She gains her full powers really at the end of the movie, and we do not really know what that means, yet, because the big bad she fights in this movie is just a normal alien. So her actual power set, for the films, is not really established.
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Old 03-13-2019, 06:45 PM   #65
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These parts are over dramatic. Women deserve equal dignity and protection under the law. Iím not handing them more power just because they can have kids though.

And of course there are a lot of men with issues. Thereís a lot of women with issues too. Itís part of being human. Youíre white knighting a bit here.
Exactly, just because a women can push out a child that doesn't make her automatically superior. The idea that in 2019 women are oppressed in western nations is about the stupidest fucking thing anyone can even remotely suggest. When feminist and the left start pointing at Islam for how they treat women as property they'll have a fight worth fighting for, until then they can shut the fuck up with the oppression victim olympics they constantly try and portray.
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Old 03-13-2019, 06:50 PM   #66
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Absolutely nothing, no.
Great to know.

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As for how powerful Captain Marvel is, this is not something that is really explored in this film. She gains her full powers really at the end of the movie
My understanding is her powers in the MCU are tied directly to the infinity stones making her one of the most powerful entities in the current MCU. But don't spoil it for me. I'll find out soon enough when I catch it on ABC or some other broadcast network in 15 years. Or am forced to watch it during some mandatory training.
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Old 03-13-2019, 07:42 PM   #67
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Her powerset is still to be determined. Sure, she is shown as being super strong by the end of the movie, but we really have no other reference point to determine what that level actually is since this is the first time we have seen Kree/Skrull in the MCU (outside of Ronin from Guardians of the Galaxy). But, yes, she is definitely being setup to be above anything else we have seen in the MCU, at least on the heroes side of things.
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Old 03-13-2019, 07:46 PM   #68
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Exactly, just because a women can push out a child that doesn't make her automatically superior. The idea that in 2019 women are oppressed in western nations is about the stupidest fucking thing anyone can even remotely suggest.
That is what makes a lot of people upset, even moderates like me, when you equate having a vagina as being immediately superior. Like, I had to completely throw out the review on iO9 for Captain Marvel because of this gem of a last sentence:

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While Captain Marvel has powers that she has only begun to discover, her true strength is owning what has set her apart her whole lifeójust being a girl, because that is more than enough.
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Old 03-14-2019, 01:09 AM   #69
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Leftist hate white straight men, they make it so obvious while they crow on about racism and social justice. "Hey stop being mean to women/blacks/trans etc while in the same breath "straight white men are evil especially old white men we should kill them!" That's where the outrage comes from, not because anyone hates women or blacks or the gays.
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Old 03-14-2019, 04:13 AM   #70
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The problem with films like Captain Marvel is that they really push it too far. Every male character in her life, aside from meeting Fury and Coulson, has been a massive and total dick. Baseball teamates. Dicks. Brothers. Dicks. Father. Total dick. Fellow Air Force cadets. Dicks. Male pilot. Dick. Person training her. Dick. Man on motorcycle. Dick.
Arguably, the boys and/or men probably would have been dicks to the girl(s) trying to participate in many of those things, especially given the time periods the movie was set in.

The childhood flashbacks would have been set in the 70's, and it wouldn't take much suspension of disbelief to imagine a bunch of adolescent boys on a baseball team being dickheads to the handful of girls trying to play.

Siblings can obviously be dicks to each other, regardless of gender. Having the father also be a complete dick was a bit much, though.

Women weren't allowed into the Air Force as equal members until 1976 and we didn't see the first female fighter pilot (which was Danver's goal) until 1993. Her time in the Air Force would have been in the mid-to-late 80's; she disappeared/was presumed dead in 1989 and didn't come back to Earth until 1995. In other words, she was involved in the USAF during a time when it wouldn't take much suspension of disbelief to assume the guys would probably be kinda shitty to women trying to join at the time.

Yon-Rogg was the villain, so he kinda had to be a dick.

The stereotype of guys with motorcycles being dickheads exists for a reason, I suppose.

Quote:
It is this lack of nuance which gets people upset, not that there is an all-powerful female super hero in a male dominated world.
Looking back, it does seem like an awful amount of adversity piled onto one character. Still, a lot of it was pretty believable and not really abnormal.

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My understanding is her powers in the MCU are tied directly to the infinity stones making her one of the most powerful entities in the current MCU. But don't spoil it for me. I'll find out soon enough when I catch it on ABC or some other broadcast network in 15 years. Or am forced to watch it during some mandatory training.
Without spoiling much, her powers are tied to one Infinity Stone, similarly to (but still different from) how Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver got their powers..only on a bigger scale, sorta. It's a different stone and a different set of circumstances, though. She's certainly not all-powerful, but she definitely packs one of the biggest punches we've seen so far. When it all shakes out, I'd wager that the Thor we saw in Infinity War would be able to still stand toe-to-toe with her pretty easily.
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Old 03-14-2019, 04:16 AM   #71
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Compared to what else we had to put up with recently... but yes, it's still just embarrassing.

haha, I remember the flame wars among sci-fi nerds back in the day, about what's better DeepSpace9 or Babylon5. Personally I never really liked Babylon5. I must have rewatched DS9 over a dozen times. I barely made it through Babylon5 once. It just didn't do much for me besides the stiff and hammy acting.
The captain in the first season was really bad. Turns out that the actor Michael O'hare was suffering from fits of delusion and paranoia. That's why they wrote him out of the story at the end of season 1. It was so bad that he could barely function and it was worse when his character comes back to finish it's story arc in season 2.
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Old 03-14-2019, 04:44 AM   #72
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Arguably, the boys and/or men probably would have been dicks to the girl(s) trying to participate in many of those things, especially given the time periods the movie was set in.
Chimp, the movie takes place in the 90s, not the 1750s.
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Old 03-14-2019, 04:55 AM   #73
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I have a friend who apparently cannot accept a single word of criticism about a MCU film. I have been aware that this is possibly the case, so I try to be gentle when I say anything that could be construed as negative about an MCU film.

I said I thought the film was "fine." Which is the truth. It isn't great, but it isn't terrible. But the moment I mentioned that some people think it has problems, or that someone I know was annoyed by the soundtrack, he had to shut off. Could no longer converse.

What is this? It's like reverse evolution. It's like the way a plant acts when it gets touched by a potential predator. What's with these people? Can we not be adults and understand that our fandoms are not infallible?
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Old 03-14-2019, 04:57 AM   #74
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These guys almost always know how to talk about the good and the bad of a movie.


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Old 03-14-2019, 10:58 AM   #75
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Chimp, the movie takes place in the 90s, not the 1750s.
So, we're just going to pretend that guys didn't treat girls like varying levels of shit when they were attempting to enter male-dominated fields? The boot camp scenes mentioned would have been from no later than the mid-80s, roughly 10 years (or less) after women were allowed to join the Air Force as equal members. They couldn't even be fighter pilots at that point.
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Old 03-14-2019, 11:25 AM   #76
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So, we're just going to pretend that guys didn't treat girls like varying levels of shit when they were attempting to enter male-dominated fields? The boot camp scenes mentioned would have been from no later than the mid-80s, roughly 10 years (or less) after women were allowed to join the Air Force as equal members. They couldn't even be fighter pilots at that point.
Uh oh...



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Old 03-14-2019, 11:36 AM   #77
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Arguably, the boys and/or men probably would have been dicks to the girl(s) trying to participate in many of those things, especially given the time periods the movie was set in.
It is not that they are being dicks, it is just that they are being disproportionately dicks. You are telling me that there was no man, ever, during her existence on Earth until she comes back as a Kree, that a man was ever anything other than a dick to Carol?

What about the women she would have also come across who would have been equally as annoyed with her "Tomboy antics?"

The movie paints men as being absolute terrors while women are the absolute best and can do no wrong. Hell, it is the whole reason why they gender swapped Mar-vell, because you can't have the savior of the Kree/Skulls being a man.


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They couldn't even be fighter pilots at that point.
They could, but not in combat roles. That is why Rambeau and Danvers are part of Pegasus Squadron working on experimental aircraft. You don't put standard pilots in F-15s or the then still in trial F-22 (it was in the hanger that they stole the experimental scram jet transport from).
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Old 03-14-2019, 11:48 AM   #78
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So, we're just going to pretend that guys didn't treat girls like varying levels of shit when they were attempting to enter male-dominated fields? The boot camp scenes mentioned would have been from no later than the mid-80s, roughly 10 years (or less) after women were allowed to join the Air Force as equal members. They couldn't even be fighter pilots at that point.
I've experienced as many instances of men gladly welcoming women in their field of interest, not because they were feminists, far from that, but because men like women, and having a woman share your interest and passion can feel pretty damn cool.

If we are to weigh misgivings on each other, there is a lot of shit going on in fields dominated by women, and when a group of women talks about men, it's not just all respectful... But who gives a damn about that. certainly not me.
Men are also not just mean to women, they are mean among themselves even more, like women also are. because it is expected that you prove yourself first, before you are given any respect. You earn that through dealing with hardship, not complaining about it.
There are plenty women that properly earned the respect in their fields as they went into it, rightfully opening it for themselves. Life is not about being handed everything on a silver plate "just because you're a girl". And this is just a disastreous message for any human being.
These accomplished women are not anything like the resentful feminist hags. Someone like that does not see the world like such a movie wants us to believe.

You make it sound like keeping women out of certain fields had no other purpose than being mean to them, and the only reason women have more possibilities today, is because they fought against the evil men.
And the only reason men would have more "power" is because it's all fun and sunshine in those jobs, and we want it all for ourselves. We didn't allow women in the military, because we feel threatened by the true power of women... yes, yes of course, that's the reason.
The primary reason women have more possibilities today is the advancement of technology. Something like a magical Power Suit. And as things progress on that front, you see society renegotiate what makes sense. That takes a bit to get used to. But it never was about men hating their women.

imagine an equivalent movie, in which a hard trade worker sacrifices his health to feed his family, like on a dirty construction site, lifting a sack of heavy bricks, welding a piece of heavy machinery, getting some coal out of that mine, or any other of a thousand highly dangerous and sickening jobs that men do so their women don't have to (but about which we never hear equality concerns),
only to hear complains from his entitled wife and spoiled daughter, gets divorced over petty shit, is left with nothing anymore or gets taken advantage of by gold diggers, or mistreated by some hags for being such a loser, or coming back from defending his country in war, only to be yelled at by a bunch of pathetic and ungrateful weasels. That also sounds plenty realistic to many men.
until one day he discovers his power to live alone and take care of only himself!, he doesn't actually need anyone! Least of all he doesn't need to "oppress" anyone by taking care of them. And he can spend most of his time in leisure! As if all the "power" he had before, was just fun party time and had nothing to do with hard responsibility and sacrifice. Well, here, have all the power and be happy with it I guess? Work for yourself. Defend yourself.
Guess what reaction such a movie would have. You see, there sure is no shortage of complains and misgivings on each other, if you really want to go there. You really don't. it kills the species.

Last edited by RAV; 03-14-2019 at 01:43 PM..
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Old 03-14-2019, 12:45 PM   #79
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Damn RAV.... nicely said.
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Old 03-14-2019, 01:32 PM   #80
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So, we're just going to pretend that guys didn't treat girls like varying levels of shit when they were attempting to enter male-dominated fields? The boot camp scenes mentioned would have been from no later than the mid-80s, roughly 10 years (or less) after women were allowed to join the Air Force as equal members. They couldn't even be fighter pilots at that point.
Jesus dude, just stop.
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