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Old 06-07-2016, 01:34 PM   #21
screwyluie
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...apparently I'm still not making myself clear. And yes, I know what an f'ing hypervisor is and it's exactly what I don't want. It's as if I'm speaking another language, amazing really.

and I just noticed you suggested freenas, which can't even do what I want, which I briefly touched on in the first post. This tells me volumes. You are not paying attention at all and you're just assuming that everyone should do exactly what you think is best without consideration of individual needs. This is exactly the kind of mentality I would expect from someone who works for some mysterious large company. You guys lose touch with reality and figure that just because some mega corps does it, that's the end all be all and there's no other viable solutions.

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Old 06-07-2016, 02:20 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by screwyluie View Post
no, I want a storage server, it will also run applications. Based on later posts I still want a storage server and staunchly refused to make a typical virtual desktop server so I've no idea what you're talking about wanting a machine for games and others to use, I simply never said that.

and no, I would never make a server and then let everyone else in my house use it as a gaming pc... that's just asinine.

I clearly stated the kids have a laptop because that's what they need, and the wife has a gaming desktop. I have my own PC and I'm using it as the home server and I'm tired of that, so I'm building one to offload all the applications and HDD's that my main PC is hosting for the benefit of the whole house.

anyone else need it explained another way?

You talked about thin clients and gaming said you were a gamer in the context of talking about an application server. That's why I said that and it's partially why people are getting confused I think.
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Old 06-07-2016, 02:35 PM   #23
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Well, I'm done here.
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Old 06-07-2016, 02:55 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by screwyluie View Post
...apparently I'm still not making myself clear.
LOL! I think you've identified your own problem!

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it's as if you have no grasp of the english language at all.
See? Go back and reread the thread for homework. Then have your wife translate it for you.

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Well, I'm done here.
Get out while you still can, lol!
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Old 06-07-2016, 05:46 PM   #25
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bunch of useless bs
Came here to offer up insights about tech, did you? Know a lot about the benefits of Hyper-V? Experienced in setting up RAID? I'm going to go out on a limb.. and say no. Fact is, I seem to remember Screwyluie, Kreigmesiter, and BrandonJClark all coming to your thread with quality assistance when you had issues cloning a fucking hard drive. And still you show up and behave like a useless troll. Well done.

FWIW, Screwy.. I understand what you want. It's just your RAID requirements are pretty extreme for home use. I've never run into drive failure at a rate that I looked at such unusual solutions. But - hey. It's your jig and if you're into projects like that, sounds like you have a doozy on your hands.
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Old 06-07-2016, 06:01 PM   #26
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Came here to offer up insights
Bite me. I offer insights to people capable of actually understanding and/or utilizing it, lol. I also don't take too kindly to jackwads on the Internet like Screwass jumping on my perfectly reasonable advice while they're simultaneously shitting the carpet with stores that don't exist in the state they suggest for shopping them and home server explanations that require a translator even for people who do the stuff for a living.
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Old 06-07-2016, 08:31 PM   #27
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Apparently it's your time of the month Terran because you went from funny to douchebag in no time. Even thread hoping to try and prove your supreme asshole nature in a thread you're not only not a part of but I'm positive is way above your technical abilities.

Gold star for the king troll.

As for Brandon, sorry dude but my needs aren't met by your suggestions, I don't know how else to explain it to you because you're just not getting it. But on the previous page is a button labeled new thread and you're welcome to make your own explaining how to setup and make the best use of an enterprise grade server for home use. I'll be happy to read it.

Kreigmstr, I can only apologise for being confusing, but it's always been a file server, any gaming will be done by accessing the files, not running the game on the server. It won't be an application server, it's a server that runs applications not serves them. I have download clients, media servers, transcoders, renderers, etc that are run on my main machine which is not how I want it, they need to be offloaded to a dedicated server.

Hagetaka, thanks. It isn't the failure rate that is the issue although with two drives failing recently it is the catalyst. I need massive storage for my media files which are growing almost faster than I can keep up with. A traditional raid is not flexible. This limitation is addressed by a server rack where you can slot in another raid bank as a new pool as needed. That is a huge investment every time I run low on space. With this setup a can just buy drives as needed and add them to the existing pool. This is cheap on demand storage expansion.
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Old 06-07-2016, 09:44 PM   #28
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So I'm looking to build my first stand alone home server and I thought I would share the information I've spent hours upon hours gathering.
You spent hours researching this? Just as an FYI, I've been progressing my IT knowledge for the last 16 years in an increasingly professional environment. You're about to be worked.


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So home servers are an interesting thing.
Yes, about 20 years ago.
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The reality is they are very purpose driven and purpose built.
So far so good, if the year was 2005.

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The same home server for central multi user storage is not the same as media streaming which is not the same as virtual machines.... etc.
EHHHH! WRONG! Soooo fucking wrong. There's this new thing, have you heard? It's called Converged Infrastructure. It's all the rage. It's also around 10 years old. Two major players are Vblock and Flexpod.





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For my purposes all of that is unacceptable. I need a one stop shop that is cost effective, flexible, easily upgraded, reliable and reasonably small(not a rack mount system). Turns out that's a tall order and one that is not filled by an off the shelf, inflexible and overly expensive NAS enclosure.
Here's where I can tell first you really don't understand hardware one bit. You said you a NAS enclosure wouldn't work because it's A) inflexible and B)overly expensive. No one is telling you to buy a fucking NAS enclosure. Where the hell did you get this? I'm asking you to install a virtual instance of FreeNAS, not buy a goddamn box and install FreeNAS as if it's the base host. Jesus Christ, follow along.

Let me introduce you to VMware ESXi. The (i) on the end of ESXi means it's not regular 'ole ESX. The difference between the two is the (i) release is a stripped down OS. Like, really small. As in, I BOOT mine off of a USB drive and the OS partition is around 25mb. Seriously. So, in your quest to buy hardware, make sure you purchase a motherboard which can boot from USB. I suggest, as a consumer and someone not likely to pay for true enterprise hardware, that you only purchase Supermicro motherboards. Don't buy a stupid flashy motherboard with neon PCIe lanes or ridiculous static cooling.

We're getting off track here. Back to ESXi. Download the free version and install it to the USB drive. Boot from USB Drive. Now, attach off the storage you bought in the case you found to be able to handle the amount of storage you need in terms of physical drive space. Yes, you are going to install ESXi onto the same fucking server you installed all of your drives to.

Now, install to your gaming computer, for starters, the vSphere Client application. Launch it and logon to your ESXi server.



Go to Storage and add your disks. It doesn't have to be RAID at this point. It can, but it doesn't have to be. Why? Because we're going to install FreeNas next.



Do you get it yet? Can you see we're building a converged infrastructure unit? It's going to have ALL of the CPU, RAM, Storage and any other resource our VM servers might need.

BTW, I really hope you were smart enough to buy a beefy 8+ core CPU (AMD is just fine for this, but Intel is better) and a ton of RAM and Storage. I don't want to have to get into hardware buying. That's truly something you can decide for yourself without affecting my plan because it's hardware agnostic.

Now, Create a new VM. Name this one, "Brandon_was_right" and configure it and attach ALL OF THE STORAGE YOU WANT for your fileservers, application servers, whatever servers, etc. They will ALL use this storage. They will use it for OS installs. They will use it for D: partitions. They will use it for file share access. Fucking everything. FreeNas is now running on top of VMware ESXi in a virtual guest VM and had all of the storage attached to it you want. Save some or preferably separate disk for other things.



Now, configure the INSTALL of FreeNAS to serve storage drives/locations/iSCSI/NFS shares so that your other VM's you spin up have access to these locations.



Now spin up a new VM and name it "my_file_server" and use Windows Server 2012 or any flavor of Linux you want. Configure it to host a share and point it at the FreeNAS NFS or SAMBA share. This will be your fileserver. IF you choose to use Unraid, fucking go for it, I don't care.

Now install another instance of Windows Server 2012. This will be your application server. And btw, you don't understand what an application server is. An application server doesn't have to fucking be interacted with locally to be considered an app server. It can just sit there and run a service (app, application) and it's a server. An application server.


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So this leaves me with a DIY project. ...............
The path I'm more likely to take is the Dell T5500 Workstation. ....
Okay, you've found some hardware. Good for you. Fucking congrats. My entire point is you would be wasting it installing a single OS unless that OS was a hypervisor. Do you realize you can run UNraid, FreeNAS in a VM? Did my above post even break through your skull?

The fact is, THERE IS NO REQUEST YOU CAN GIVE ME IN WHICH MY SCENARIO DOESN'T WORK.

Virtualize your environment. What the fuck are you scared of? Seriously?

WHAT ARE YOUR HANGUPS? I can walk you through it if you could give me ONE FUCKING REASON why it isn't a solution for you.
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Old 06-07-2016, 10:02 PM   #29
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Wait. I think I just figured it out. I hope I didn't. I hope this thought in my head isn't true, or I'm going to rip my hair out. But,



Are you planning on using this "server" by sitting down to it and interacting with a locally-attached keyboard, mouse and monitor?

Seriously.

Are you planning on interacting directly with the console?

Please, tell me that's it. I can't take it anymore.
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Old 06-07-2016, 11:59 PM   #30
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How can I get you to pull your head out of your ass for two minutes and objectively read what I wrote? I don't mean that in any negative sort of way. You have this idea in your head, and maybe it's entirely my fault, about what I need and what I'm doing and what I said but it's all wrong, all of it. This preconceived notion that is guiding everything you just wrote is blinding you to what I'm actually saying and I'm not sure how to get you to reevaluate the conversation from the ground up.

I don't know if you're just skimming and filling the rest in with assumption or what because had you read what I wrote previously you wouldn't have just wasted your time typing all that.

You quoted my original post then said you didn't tell me to buy a Nas enclosure and to follow along... can you not see how that doesn't make sense chronologically? Not to mention that in context I was saying exactly that, don't buy a Nas box which just makes your asshole remark look pretty stupid and uncalled for.

You're still trying to get me to use freenas which simply won't work.

Then there's the comment about what parts I'm buying, my very first post told you what I'm buying, so I can only assume you never actually read it.

Quote:
Do you realize you can run UNraid, FreeNAS in a VM? Did my above post even break through your skull
I'm pretty sure I told you I know all that. I'm also sure that you believe your way is the only way. But here the thing, is not that your way can't work, I just have no intention of using it. I know what an application server is, I know what hyper visor is, I know how to use esxi. I am in no way an expert in any of that and I would happily turn to you with questions one day when I choose to use them.

I don't need it. Unraid is exactly what I need and does exactly what I want. Your solution adds a ton of great stuff to a server build, but i don't need any of it and so I'm not going to use it. I'm sorry if this is some how offensive to you but your solution is excessive for my needs. Why do all that when I can just put unraid on a USB, boot, take 5 mins to set it up, and walk away.

Quote:
Are you planning on using this "server" by sitting down to it and interacting with a locally-attached keyboard, mouse and monitor?
Again I can only assume you didn't actually read anything I wrote.
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Old 06-08-2016, 04:26 AM   #31
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in a thread you're not only not a part of but I'm positive is way above your technical abilities.
LOL, that's some serious projection right there!
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Old 06-08-2016, 04:55 AM   #32
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How can I get you to pull your head out of your ass for two minutes and objectively read what I wrote? I don't mean that in any negative sort of way. You have this idea in your head, and maybe it's entirely my fault, about what I need and what I'm doing and what I said but it's all wrong, all of it. This preconceived notion that is guiding everything you just wrote is blinding you to what I'm actually saying and I'm not sure how to get you to reevaluate the conversation from the ground up.

I don't know if you're just skimming and filling the rest in with assumption or what because had you read what I wrote previously you wouldn't have just wasted your time typing all that.

You quoted my original post then said you didn't tell me to buy a Nas enclosure and to follow along... can you not see how that doesn't make sense chronologically? Not to mention that in context I was saying exactly that, don't buy a Nas box which just makes your asshole remark look pretty stupid and uncalled for.

You're still trying to get me to use freenas which simply won't work.

Then there's the comment about what parts I'm buying, my very first post told you what I'm buying, so I can only assume you never actually read it.



I'm pretty sure I told you I know all that. I'm also sure that you believe your way is the only way. But here the thing, is not that your way can't work, I just have no intention of using it. I know what an application server is, I know what hyper visor is, I know how to use esxi. I am in no way an expert in any of that and I would happily turn to you with questions one day when I choose to use them.

I don't need it. Unraid is exactly what I need and does exactly what I want. Your solution adds a ton of great stuff to a server build, but i don't need any of it and so I'm not going to use it. I'm sorry if this is some how offensive to you but your solution is excessive for my needs. Why do all that when I can just put unraid on a USB, boot, take 5 mins to set it up, and walk away.



Again I can only assume you didn't actually read anything I wrote.

Okay, go ahead and build your server. I don't know why you're asking for help on a forum if you won't take advice.
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Old 06-08-2016, 05:52 AM   #33
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Okay, go ahead and build your server. I don't know why you're asking for help on a forum if you won't take advice.

see? this is what I'm talking about, instead of having a great conversation, we're arguing about stupid shit because you're not actually reading what I wrote

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I thought I would share the information I've spent hours upon hours gathering
I wasn't asking for help. I was offering it.
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Old 06-08-2016, 06:10 AM   #34
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see? this is what I'm talking about, instead of having a great conversation, we're arguing about stupid shit because you're not actually reading what I wrote



I wasn't asking for help. I was offering it.
Olay, but if someone followed your advice they'd be building a server like it was 20 years ago, installing to bare metal.

Times have changed. I understand your build is easier, less complicated, but is also wholly wasteful.
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Old 06-08-2016, 06:26 AM   #35
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Olay, but if someone followed your advice they'd be building a server like it was 20 years ago, installing to bare metal.

Times have changed. I understand your build is easier, less complicated, but is also wholly wasteful.
the only change you have actually suggested to my build is install esxi instead of unraid.

I don't think the above statement applies since, as I pointed out, the hardware is more than capable of doing other stuff and other people who follow the advice can take your advice as well. esxi and all the great examples you've given are fully compatible and applicable (just not for me and my server).

I see no waste, in fact that's kinda the point of this. Take something that is waste, a ten year old workstation and turn it into something very useful, practical, and cheap for home use. Replacing what would otherwise have been an expensive and inferior product, the NAS enclosure which is all too popular these days.
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Old 06-08-2016, 07:38 AM   #36
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the only change you have actually suggested to my build is install esxi instead of unraid.

I don't think the above statement applies since, as I pointed out, the hardware is more than capable of doing other stuff and other people who follow the advice can take your advice as well. esxi and all the great examples you've given are fully compatible and applicable (just not for me and my server).

I see no waste, in fact that's kinda the point of this. Take something that is waste, a ten year old workstation and turn it into something very useful, practical, and cheap for home use. Replacing what would otherwise have been an expensive and inferior product, the NAS enclosure which is all too popular these days.
I suggested you lay down ESXI as a virtualization layer so you can spin up other vm's as needed. Why have one OS when you can have many more?

You can still install Unraid. You just have the option of installing more things, too.
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Old 06-08-2016, 10:56 AM   #37
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I suggested you lay down ESXI as a virtualization layer so you can spin up other vm's as needed. Why have one OS when you can have many more?

You can still install Unraid. You just have the option of installing more things, too.
makes perfect sense. I don't disagree with you on this, but for me I won't be using it... yet. right now unraid is 100% everything I need so it's pointless to install an os to run a single VM to run another OS.

In the future if I want more than unraid, it'll be dead simple to get esxi going instead. Your advice, as I said is sound for others following the build though.

The thing I wanted to share was using an old workstation for cheap and unraid for flexibility of storage. Might be a niche need but I don't think so. I feel many people have large media libraries these days, whether from torrents or actuall dvd/BR rips and these old workstations are a fantastic way to beef up your home network on the cheap.

I see way too many posts online about buying a NAS and running a standard raid. I don't think that's what most home users need, so I shared a different way.
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Old 06-08-2016, 11:09 AM   #38
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makes perfect sense. I don't disagree with you on this, but for me I won't be using it... yet. right now unraid is 100% everything I need so it's pointless to install an os to run a single VM to run another OS.

In the future if I want more than unraid, it'll be dead simple to get esxi going instead. Your advice, as I said is sound for others following the build though.

The thing I wanted to share was using an old workstation for cheap and unraid for flexibility of storage. Might be a niche need but I don't think so. I feel many people have large media libraries these days, whether from torrents or actuall dvd/BR rips and these old workstations are a fantastic way to beef up your home network on the cheap.

I see way too many posts online about buying a NAS and running a standard raid. I don't think that's what most home users need, so I shared a different way.
Well thanks for sharing.
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Old 06-09-2016, 06:57 AM   #39
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You guys have me interested in visualization of my server now. At the moment it just runs Windows 2012 Essentials. Unfortunately it only has 4 cores, but I just upgraded to 20 gigs of ram. How many VM's could I get way with?

Also, right now I just use it for storage and Plex. However, I do want to install PlayOn and do backups as well. What does the typical home server usually do?
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Old 06-09-2016, 07:25 AM   #40
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I may have to do some of this with my server when I get setup in my new house. I'm liking some of the "Add storage as often as you want" bit of a NAS and I'm tired of trying to use Dropbox and Onedrive to access my media over the cloud. I also am too cheap to get a fixed IP and I'm too busy and in-between homes to figure it out right now.

In the meantime I've got a kiddie setup with a Windows 10 machine and 10TB that holds most of my stuff. Sits out in the living room. I remote into it when I need to from the gaming PCs or it's on HDMI 1 if I want to watch something.

It really sounds like Louie just wants a machine with a shitload of storage and some strange OS that manages RAID. Not rocket surgery. Seems like everyone is overthinking it. All this VM this and Hyper Visor that seems like overkill.
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