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Old 06-13-2012, 03:06 PM   #21
BabyJesus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Syl View Post
I've heard good stuff about the multiplayer. I'm hoping its still around when I buy this game for cheap during the christmas sale.
I think its good fun, some of it needs a few tweeks like getting stuck on certain objects and I think seeing your death scene flash up on every single death gets to be nerve wracking(especially on the DM modes) and why is throwing a grenade so clunky? Also load times suck pretty badly, and after a game there is a long feeling load period, at least on the 360. Gonna try to install on HD to see if its better, but I suspect it wont help as you're waiting for all of the non installed gamers to sync up with you.

But in game its pretty smooth most of the time and I like that they have separate servers for aim lock and no aim lock. I really like the gang wars mode as well as all the different match types are included on one big ass game. The large DM modes are freaking crazy.

I think I have seen some cheaters I have gotten to level 10 pretty quick for buying the game over the weekend but there seem to be quite a few people up on the high 40's which seems really fast for the length of time the game as been out.
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Old 06-14-2012, 10:31 AM   #22
Samstag
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Originally Posted by vallor View Post
Tell me where hosting is free for an enterprise level application that has to scale to, potentially millions of users and manage potentially gigabytes of data. Oh yeah, and free developer time. We'll just create that out of thin air.

When you were custom creating databases you were working for free, right? No, you were probably really expensive, am I right?

Therefore my point still stands, it is too expensive for most companies/products to invest in infrastructure and systems just to preclude cheaters. There is no business case.
I did work for free. I did it as a hobby for MUDs in the mid 90's. Later when a friend needed a user database for a yahoo mail knockoff for a chinese ISP I spent about 2 hours updating it so it could handle millions of users. Also for free. Altogether I think I spent several tens of hours on the whole thing as a hobbyist programmer. A professional with SQL tools could probably do something better in an hour or two nowadays.

You point is still based on really bad assumptions. The investment in time and server resources is miniscule. I know this because I've done it, and that was 15 years ago with much less processing power.
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Old 06-14-2012, 04:14 PM   #23
vallor
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Originally Posted by Samstag View Post
I did work for free. I did it as a hobby for MUDs in the mid 90's. Later when a friend needed a user database for a yahoo mail knockoff for a chinese ISP I spent about 2 hours updating it so it could handle millions of users. Also for free. Altogether I think I spent several tens of hours on the whole thing as a hobbyist programmer. A professional with SQL tools could probably do something better in an hour or two nowadays.

You point is still based on really bad assumptions. The investment in time and server resources is miniscule. I know this because I've done it, and that was 15 years ago with much less processing power.
Let me correct myself then. With a professional solution this is a non-trivial amount of time, work, and cost. There is little to no justifiable business case to do this just to control cheating.

My assumptions are based on what it costs for development time and what I personally priced out for creation and administration of a an enterprise level hosted application a year ago. The system caters to a potential millions large world-wide user base that included a backend to just handles data points for BI number crunching.

During our beta we found that the bandwidth cost for the data streaming in was estimated to be a 7 figure expense over 3-years. There was so much volume it overwhelmed our SQL VMs and buffers (we quickly paired down the dataset).

Server cost estimates ran 6 figures. Additional hardware, power, rack rental, and administration estimates were another 6 figures. Even just managing the data was estimated 6 servers at ~$14k each without bandwidth, power, rack rental, and any associated hardware.

Hiring a skilled (professional) SQL developer in this area is ~$125k per year in salary and ~$200k in benefits, office space, equipment and other invisible administration (granted they wouldn't just be doing this).

Again, I suppose if you wanted to be cavalier about it you could plop an $2k XPS in your office somewhere and call it done. Half-assed solution, but I suppose if that's the way you prefer your systems built then continue on.
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Old 06-14-2012, 09:08 PM   #24
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There is little to no justifiable business case to do this just to control cheating.
Sure there is. To a guy creating cheats, he won't know right away if his cheat is detected or not, since the server won't reject him but rather drop him in with cheaters.

Besides which, it places cheaters back on an equal level, with other cheaters, with no victims. Some might actually prefer to have a war of cheaters. Now you've created a second community with its own rules that can grow a life of its own. Who knows what could happen there.
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Old 06-14-2012, 09:12 PM   #25
Samstag
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Originally Posted by vallor View Post
Let me correct myself then. With a professional solution this is a non-trivial amount of time, work, and cost. There is little to no justifiable business case to do this just to control cheating.

My assumptions are based on what it costs for development time and what I personally priced out for creation and administration of a an enterprise level hosted application a year ago. The system caters to a potential millions large world-wide user base that included a backend to just handles data points for BI number crunching.

During our beta we found that the bandwidth cost for the data streaming in was estimated to be a 7 figure expense over 3-years. There was so much volume it overwhelmed our SQL VMs and buffers (we quickly paired down the dataset).

Server cost estimates ran 6 figures. Additional hardware, power, rack rental, and administration estimates were another 6 figures. Even just managing the data was estimated 6 servers at ~$14k each without bandwidth, power, rack rental, and any associated hardware.

Hiring a skilled (professional) SQL developer in this area is ~$125k per year in salary and ~$200k in benefits, office space, equipment and other invisible administration (granted they wouldn't just be doing this).

Again, I suppose if you wanted to be cavalier about it you could plop an $2k XPS in your office somewhere and call it done. Half-assed solution, but I suppose if that's the way you prefer your systems built then continue on.
If you're saying that your project had the same complexity and importance as a server for Max Payne user data, you overengineered and overpaid.
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Old 06-15-2012, 12:38 AM   #26
ovi
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hm good idea IF it works. APB:R has similar problems... i think the best way to deal with it, is to constantly monitore the game and ban the new hacks regurarly, as it happens in APB.

since max payne 3 isnt a pure multiplayer-game, its remarkable that rockstar even deals with it... i haven't played it yet, looks simmilar to "kane & lynch 2: dog days" and thouse games can't keep an vivit multiplayer community for long after all.

anyway hackers will allways be a bane and there should be no pardon for thouse ppl too.
a cheater will allways try to hack, no matter what, its ridiculous.
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Old 06-15-2012, 08:35 AM   #27
vallor
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Originally Posted by Samstag View Post
If you're saying that your project had the same complexity and importance as a server for Max Payne user data, you overengineered and overpaid.
And "Dell XPS under the Intern's Desk" wins it all! Sorry Asia and EMEA, our access speed from the US to our offices are FINE. Too bad for you; live in a real country!
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