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Old 02-16-2018, 01:17 PM   #1
Emabulator
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Civilization VI's New "Flirtatious" and "Curmudgeon" Agendas are Melting Snowflakes


Fans of Civilization VI have had a mixed reaction to the new "Flirtatious" and "Curmudgeon" Agendas in the game's Rise and Fall expansion pack. Eurogamer has the story.

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The issue centres around Firaxis' addition of more Hidden Agendas for its various leaders, and a couple of those new Agendas in particular: "Flirtatious" and "Curmudgeon". The former means a leader will like other civilizations that have leaders of the opposite sex, and dislike those of the same sex. The latter the opposite: disliking the opposite sex and liking those the same as their own.

If you're not familiar, Agendas are basically the goals, or playstyles, that are given to for each AI-controlled civilization's leader in a game. They come in two forms: fixed agendas that generally suit that leader's overall theme, like Queen Victoria's desire for imperialistic expansion with "Sun Never Sets"; and Hidden Agendas, which are randomly assigned and a bit more light-hearted about adding personality - maybe a leader is "Fun Loving" and wants to keep their citizens well entertained, or "Nuke Happy" and won't hesitate to pelt you with a few ICBMs when the mood takes them. These new ones fall under the latter.

Many fans see these new traits as a bit of fun - and, more importantly, historically accurate fun, given how much the romantic whims of leaders have already shaped the world - but others have noted a couple of problems.

The first complaint, which is frankly a little curmudgeonly itself, is concerned with how it impacts gameplay. In-game, Hidden Agendas also affect that leader's opinion of you, which could in turn affect alliances, trading, and even warfare. Normally you can play around them - if you find out someone is Nuke Happy, for example, then you know they'll like it if you build nuclear weapons yourself, and so you can curry favour by doing so, and so on.

But with Flirtatious and Curmudgeon, you can't. If you're playing as Queen Seondeok of Korea and Alexander the Great is a Curmudgeon, he'll start out disliking you no matter what (and being disliked by Alexander normally means being conquered by him, so it really doesn't help).

The second issue is more significant - Flirtatious leaders only ever hold favourable opinions towards the opposite sex. In other words, they're always straight, and given the fluidity of certain leaders' sexuality in the real world - Alexander the Great himself purportedly had same-sex relationships - that seems like an oversight.

Firaxis has a reputation for holding a more progressive, inclusive view on history, even noting that there was a conscious effort to include some of the more overlooked women and civilizations of history in the Rise and Fall expansion - and so it seemed surprising that they'd miss the mark here.
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Old 02-16-2018, 02:05 PM   #2
NESter the Unlikely
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So Flirtatious and Curmudgeon basically are Straight and Gay, but of course they can't just call them that so in their infinite regressive left wisdom Firaxis chooses to saddle the Gay side with a name that imparts negative unfriendly connotations, so essentially Firaxis are saying that homos are... what, grumpy and difficult to work with?

So. Progressive.

Also, Bill Nye told me that sexuality is fluid and shit, so where's the representation for the 20-or-so levels of straight/gayness that are supposed to exist in between the extremes? FIX THIS.

ALTERNATIVELY: Flirtatious and Curmudgeon really are Flirtatious and Sexist (technically both sides would be Sexist), and Civ6 takes place in a world where gay just doesn't exist, not even the tiniest hint of gayness to be found. NO GAYS ALLOWED!

Last edited by NESter the Unlikely; 02-16-2018 at 02:26 PM..
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Old 02-16-2018, 03:48 PM   #3
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Alexander the Great himself purportedly had same-sex relationships
And the Roman Empire wrote how much of a sex fiend Cleopatra was but now historians are saying that is an incorrect assessment of her characters. Look, history is written by the victors and changes over time based on who is in power, language translations, and societal changes. This is another case of outrage du jour that keeps me off of all social media websites and most OP/EDs.
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Old 02-16-2018, 03:52 PM   #4
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-_-

Its a game...
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Old 02-16-2018, 04:28 PM   #5
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I hate gamer expectations when it comes to shit like this.

Is this real, or is this a story looking for an outrage?
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Old 02-16-2018, 07:43 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by LostToys View Post
And the Roman Empire wrote how much of a sex fiend Cleopatra was but now historians are saying that is an incorrect assessment of her characters. Look, history is written by the victors and changes over time based on who is in power, language translations, and societal changes. This is another case of outrage du jour that keeps me off of all social media websites and most OP/EDs.
Nailed it. And I do the same now as well. Progressives are never happy and will always whine over something hilariously menial. I hope that Firaxis stand their ground here (but I'd wager that they won't).

As long as it's an exposed statistic/value so that it can be exploited, then the feature seems like a good idea to me. It'd just further add to the already dynamic nature of the gameplay that keeps Civ installed on hard drives and eating up productive hours.
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Old 02-16-2018, 09:00 PM   #7
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It's dumb to look at it as any other way than how it affects gameplay.
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Old 02-16-2018, 09:29 PM   #8
SpectralThundr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NESter the Unlikely View Post
So Flirtatious and Curmudgeon basically are Straight and Gay, but of course they can't just call them that so in their infinite regressive left wisdom Firaxis chooses to saddle the Gay side with a name that imparts negative unfriendly connotations, so essentially Firaxis are saying that homos are... what, grumpy and difficult to work with?

So. Progressive.

Also, Bill Nye told me that sexuality is fluid and shit, so where's the representation for the 20-or-so levels of straight/gayness that are supposed to exist in between the extremes? FIX THIS.

ALTERNATIVELY: Flirtatious and Curmudgeon really are Flirtatious and Sexist (technically both sides would be Sexist), and Civ6 takes place in a world where gay just doesn't exist, not even the tiniest hint of gayness to be found. NO GAYS ALLOWED!
Bill Nye also isn't a scientist, he's an electrical engineer. He's the last person anyone should be getting biology or "climate change" info from.
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Old 02-17-2018, 04:33 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by SpectralThundr View Post
Bill Nye also isn't a scientist, he's an electrical engineer. He's the last person anyone should be getting biology or "climate change" info from.
You don't need to be a scientist to believe in gender fluidity or climate change. That's just silly. He's just the spokesman, you know, they guy who can easily communicate the science to the layman. He's another Neil Degrasse-Tyson - not an expert in all fields, but communicates the ideas well.

Also, Bill Nye has done an amazing job over the years at getting kids excited about sciences, so who cares if he's not a scientist?

I couldn't care less about the whole gender/sexual spectrum thing... either way, it doesn't affect my life in any sense, and if calling oneself a pangender intersex brony makes you happy, then go for it. As for climate change, I'll take the word of experts over (Right-Wing) politicians any day.
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Old 02-17-2018, 04:36 AM   #10
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The Bill Nye thing matters because he often presents himself as an a authority on things he knows no more about than the layman. Kids and idiots see the white lab coat and think he must really know what he’s talking about. He’s an entertainer who’s degree goes no higher than (I’m guessing) most people here
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Old 02-17-2018, 07:07 AM   #11
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Fuck I'm triggered because that's not what curmudgeon means.
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Old 02-17-2018, 07:08 AM   #12
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Let me reply for Spectral..

FAKE NEWS YOU LIBRAL CUCK DERP *Chokes on own outrage and calls you a snowflake*
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Old 02-17-2018, 07:09 AM   #13
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"This is another case of outrage du jour that keeps me off of all social media websites and most OP/EDs."

Yet your reaction reeks of the same artificial outrage.

"It's dumb to look at it as any other way than how it affects gameplay."

THANK YOU.
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Old 02-17-2018, 11:13 AM   #14
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Yet your reaction reeks of the same artificial outrage.
What? No it doesn’t.
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Old 02-17-2018, 11:27 AM   #15
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Yet your reaction reeks of the same artificial outrage
lol. You're easily triggered if you find that reaction represents "artificial outrage." Unfortunately, progressive society today has so lowered the bar for folks to be outraged themselves that they see any response as outrageous.

LIKE THIS ONE OMG OHNOZ!
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Old 02-17-2018, 12:01 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by AlfredT View Post
Let me reply for Spectral..

FAKE NEWS YOU LIBRAL CUCK DERP *Chokes on own outrage and calls you a snowflake*
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Old 02-17-2018, 04:58 PM   #17
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Yet your reaction reeks of the same artificial outrage.
And that is why I keep it as a single opinion post on a specific topic on a specific website. I just leave it at that.
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Old 02-18-2018, 09:21 AM   #18
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It's dumb to look at it as any other way than how it affects gameplay.
Yeah actually... I mean this is what I thought the conversation was going to be about since Firaxis has been buckling down on an even gender distribution of leaders when in many cases it doesn't make sense historically.

It had me thinking are these new agendas there to reinforce the leadership genders, or are the leadership genders part of a bigger idea that they avoided at launch because they didn't want the game overwhelmed with this kind of stupid controversy at release?
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Old 02-18-2018, 06:55 PM   #19
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When they are ugly and or fat and or both and cant get a date from their dream chad or get shit on too much by popular stacies, they turn against society. Its a defense mechanism that prevents them from having to deal with their inadequacies.

Its also very likely just a genetic trait. Physiognomy is a thing. Liberal can pick me out a mile a way and i can do the same. In their case i think its a defect, many of them seem weak to the point they just lash out non stop to gaslight everyone at all times so they, again dont have to answer the tough questions about the world.
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Old 02-19-2018, 07:49 AM   #20
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He's just the spokesman, you know, they guy who can easily communicate the science to the layman. He's another Neil Degrasse-Tyson - not an expert in all fields, but communicates the ideas well.
It is true they both have a way of communicating to the lay-person, but I'd argue Tyson is an expert in fields, including physics and astronomy. It's easy to label guys like Tyson and Kaku as "Pop Scientists" who aren't actually scientists, because they're on TV, but Tyson has the pedigree to back it up.

Bachelors in physics at Harvard. Masters and doctorate in astrophysics at Columbia. Research associate at Princeton. Several published books on Astrophysics and a slew of awards.

I wouldn't lump Tyson in with Nye. He has a pretty impressive academic pedigree.
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