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Old 12-04-2019, 09:03 PM   #21
vallor
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I have no words. Well I do, but none of them are positive so I'll just keep them to myself.

I will NOT be seeing this in the theater which is a serious departure for me since Bond movies were spectacle movies I liked to see on the big screen. Nor likely on Redbox. Netflix or bust. And I wouldn't even care enough if the option were bust.

I was pre-disposed to not like this movie already and this was the nail in the coffin I needed.
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Old 12-05-2019, 04:37 AM   #22
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After rewatching the trailer, I believe I can narrow down what I dislike to two details:

1. Bond feels old. Not "old and confident" like Roger Moore, but old and broken, bitter. I've never read any of the books (I vaguely seem to remember one short story), but in the movies, James Bond was ageless. He was always at the top of his game. Some people within his own organization doubted that over the years, but he proved them wrong every time. Sean Connery was never a bloody mess at the end of the movie. Daniel Craig manages to get beat up (or worse) halfway through every 007 film.

2. Nobody in this trailer cracked a smile (aside from Christoph Waltz, of course, but that's just his thing). Maybe it's just me, but I don't want Bond to become Bourne! If we regular joes can find the time to laugh at things in our boring lives, shouldn't a globetrotting spy and legendary womanizer find the time to enjoy himself, every once in a while?
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Old 12-05-2019, 06:47 AM   #23
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2. Nobody in this trailer cracked a smile (aside from Christoph Waltz, of course, but that's just his thing). Maybe it's just me, but I don't want Bond to become Bourne! If we regular joes can find the time to laugh at things in our boring lives, shouldn't a globetrotting spy and legendary womanizer find the time to enjoy himself, every once in a while?
The sad part is that Daniel Craig doesn't seem to be having any fun either. He hates the character and only got dragged kicking and screaming back into the last two movies because without Bond he has no career and no stream of income at all.

Contrast that with Roger Moore, who loved the character and the franchise and was still a fan of Bond until the day he died. (And probably would have returned to play Bond in his 90's if they had let him.)

The best thing for the franchise at this point is going to be ditching Craig, I just fear as people have suggested above that the studio will go all "Woke" and try to replace him with his current no-name female co-star and then after being burned, it will be a decade before we get another Bond film again.
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Old 12-05-2019, 07:04 AM   #24
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But I would watch it to see how a female actor would do.
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Old 12-05-2019, 09:31 AM   #25
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a female james bond?
like all female ghostbusters?
or I suspect all female super heroes movie that got re-written multiple times.

Look Hollywood pays people like Gaiman to show up and propose "new" ideas and it's just swap out the sex/race/gender/ for a millennial audience.

/which is why I don't go to movies much anymore.
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Old 12-05-2019, 12:40 PM   #26
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because without Bond he has no career and no stream of income at all.
I disagree. He's no Dwayne Johnson when it comes to saturation but in what roles I have seen him outside Bond, he's been fantastic. The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo for starters. I will see Knives Out at some point but I think he's just more deliberate in the type of work he will do (where coming back as Bond was more pressure campaign because a suitable replacement wasn't happening).

I read an article recently about Michael Biehn and how he could have been a bigger star but it just didn't materialize. Before Terminator he was making $100,000 a year (in the eighties!), and he seems to be content raising his kids and being a family man after the kind of film career that he has had.

So along those lines, so what if Craig has peaked with Bond? I think Craig doesn't give a shit, but he is ambivalent about doing these movies.
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Old 12-05-2019, 02:39 PM   #27
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So along those lines, so what if Craig has peaked with Bond? I think Craig doesn't give a shit, but he is ambivalent about doing these movies.
IIRC Craig has $50m worth of reasons to come back to do this Bond. That's a hard paycheck to turn down even if you hate the character. He's said before he is done with the character but they lured him back in.

A female version of Bond would be a non-starter for most people. There are too many essential masculine components to Bond for them to try and inject a female into the role without completely redoing Bond.

Then they may as well call it Salt.
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Old 12-05-2019, 04:03 PM   #28
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After rewatching the trailer, I believe I can narrow down what I dislike to two details:

1. Bond feels old. Not "old and confident" like Roger Moore, but old and broken, bitter. I've never read any of the books (I vaguely seem to remember one short story), but in the movies, James Bond was ageless. He was always at the top of his game. Some people within his own organization doubted that over the years, but he proved them wrong every time. Sean Connery was never a bloody mess at the end of the movie. Daniel Craig manages to get beat up (or worse) halfway through every 007 film.

2. Nobody in this trailer cracked a smile (aside from Christoph Waltz, of course, but that's just his thing). Maybe it's just me, but I don't want Bond to become Bourne! If we regular joes can find the time to laugh at things in our boring lives, shouldn't a globetrotting spy and legendary womanizer find the time to enjoy himself, every once in a while?
If my memory serves (I read them decades ago), the books are considerably different from the movies. Bond is described as a brutal killer, covered in scars, and not particularly attractive. He's a cold warrior. Not at the level of a Bulgarian thug, but say more of a ex-SAS/SBS type that's seen several fights too many. In that way, Craig is closer to the book Bond than any other. Bourne is an automaton. Book Bond is an cold assassin who knows what he is.

That's not to say I disagree with you, especially regarding the dry wit of the movie Bond. Just describing the books and why I've enjoyed Craig.
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Old 12-05-2019, 09:22 PM   #29
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I'll watch when it hits one of the streaming services I use.
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Old 12-05-2019, 10:18 PM   #30
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IIRC Craig has $50m worth of reasons to come back to do this Bond. That's a hard paycheck to turn down even if you hate the character. He's said before he is done with the character but they lured him back in.

A female version of Bond would be a non-starter for most people. There are too many essential masculine components to Bond for them to try and inject a female into the role without completely redoing Bond.

Then they may as well call it Salt.
A female just makes no sense. Namely because the protagonist has always been.... James Bond?

They could do an "off-shoot" called just 007, which features a female character, but then we're getting into pretty niche territory. I don't think it would have a big draw, and I don't think it would do very well.

NOT directly because of a female main, but because it's an illustrious IP, centered around James Bond. James Bond. Not Jamie Bond. It would be akin to making a Mario game with Maria, and still calling it Super Mario Bros.

If Craig won't come back, they'll find another James that makes sense.

If someone wants to make an action film with a female lead, of course, do it! That's great! Make it a great film! If it's a great film, I'll watch any day! But just gender swapping for the fun of it has no point.
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Old 12-05-2019, 11:36 PM   #31
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Omg so cheesy.
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Old 12-06-2019, 03:01 AM   #32
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Havent liked Bond since Daniel Craig took over, preferred the Pierce Brosnan gadget using 007. I completely disengaged from the series these days.
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Old 12-06-2019, 11:45 AM   #33
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Opportunity breeds speculation. No one was questioning who the next James Bond was when Quantum of Solace was in production. They'll land on something and we'll go back to some other opportunity to speculate on.

But I can't see a female Bond. Female Spy/Assassin has been done to death many times over in different flavors (Salt, Atomic Blonde, Red Sparrow, Anna, Black Widow) but it isn't Bond. It's just what I called it: Female Spy/Assassin movie.

Bond is more than a formula for making a movie. The thing forgotten in these discussions (or perhaps talked around) is Bond's ICON status. That iconic status almost locks in *everything* you could describe about a character, their relationships, and their setting with little wiggle room. Changing times makes it harder to keep that icon status, but it isn't impossible for an icon to evolve. The fact Miles Morales was able to become a fan-favorite Spider-Man is an example of this happening successfully while the Falcon being Captain American / Jane Foster being Thor is (arguably) not.

Icons outlives their creators. It is what companies like Blizzard strive to achieve in their designs. It is what EON is trying to preserve.
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Old 12-06-2019, 04:47 PM   #34
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I'm prepared to be ridiculed but Live and Let Die is my favorite Bond movie and Roger Moore's portrayal in that film my favorite version of Bond. That alone may render my opinion on anything else suspect but I'll plow on anyway.
Live and Let Die is the best of them all so far, and Roger Moore is the best "accurate" James Bond. To me at least. Ian Flemming even said that Roger Moore came closest to how he pictured the character.

Bond is supposed to be a playboy, not a superhero. He is supposed to outsmart, not out-muscle. While I like the modern Bond films, I think that Daniel Craig plays him too tough. Dean Martin as Matt Helm came closer to a true James Bond than any of the Bond films.
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