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Old 05-19-2017, 11:36 AM   #61
Terran
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Originally Posted by Whimbrel View Post
Terran will repeat himself
It helps the simple follow along. Let me repeat the following, since you keep dodging! Prove your point that 51%+ of the comic buying audience is 'right/conservative/alt right,' as it is incumbent upon you to support your assertion, not others to refute it (argumentum ad ignorantiam; it's a thing, and you keep doing it, lol). Also, hopefully in that process, bring some clarity to the vomited mess of terms you used to refer to this supposed 51%+ and what you believe they actually are...a label, a term, something fixed rather than the spam you've been tossing about. Who are these people that are rejecting this comic?

If you're not prepared to defend your assertions, then don't pretend you are. You gave us a glimmer of honesty when you said "I have no data to support this." If you're full of shit, own it and enjoy your trolling, lol.
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Old 05-19-2017, 02:31 PM   #62
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So, you're not saying the comic will hurt the film, but that the comic will...hurt...the film.
Wow, you're dumb. I said the comic is an indication of the character's appeal, which appears low, and this does not bode well for the movie.
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Old 05-19-2017, 03:08 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Chimpbot View Post
Well, it's like this:

"Once you dismiss a concept as wrong, you hammer away at them with a series of buzzwords and catchphrases until they just give up...effectively silencing anyone who disagrees with you. It doesn't technically stop them from posting, but you just don't stop until people give up; it rapidly hits a point where it's just not worth saying anything in disagreement to - or even marginally different from -the popular opinion here.
I still don't get it. Not getting the last word in is not silencing. If the argument is going nowhere and you decide to stop, how is that being silenced? You have said your peace, your message wasn't deleted, and you were not prevented from adding to it in any way. Your message wasn't drowned out because it's still there unfiltered for anyone to read.

As for the constant replies, well, rarely do arguments end with both parties agreeing with each other. They both state their facts, they both refuse to change, and either they move on or they keep trying to change the others mind. But that isn't being silenced.

This board is great because it doesn't silence. I get to hear your opinion, and I get to hear other's opinions, and I know the board mods won't delete a post and ban someone simply because the poster said something they disagreed with.

Try posting something conservative-ish over on r/GamerGhazi and you will understand what being silenced really is.
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Old 05-19-2017, 03:19 PM   #64
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Wow, you're dumb. I said the comic is an indication of the character's appeal, which appears low, and this does not bode well for the movie.
The failure of this particular book means nothing in regards to the film; the character was well-received and the film is still anticipated.

This was not the first Black Panther solo series; it's simply the latest. It failed because it was poorly written, not because of the character. The people reading - or not reading, in this case - will not make up the majority ofnthe film's audience.

The book's success or failure will have absolutely no impact upon the movie whatsoever, regardless of the reasoning you want to place behind it. It's not indicative of anything.

The cancellation of this book has nothing to do with his overall popularity.
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Old 05-19-2017, 03:21 PM   #65
Whimbrel
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I still don't get it. Not getting the last word in is not silencing. If the argument is going nowhere and you decide to stop, how is that being silenced? You have said your peace, your message wasn't deleted, and you were not prevented from adding to it in any way. Your message wasn't drowned out because it's still there unfiltered for anyone to read.

As for the constant replies, well, rarely do arguments end with both parties agreeing with each other. They both state their facts, they both refuse to change, and either they move on or they keep trying to change the others mind. But that isn't being silenced.

This board is great because it doesn't silence. I get to hear your opinion, and I get to hear other's opinions, and I know the board mods won't delete a post and ban someone simply because the poster said something they disagreed with.

Try posting something conservative-ish over on r/GamerGhazi and you will understand what being silenced really is.
I think that much of what Chimpbot was referring to applies to Terran's trolling in particular. I agree with you in that what Terran is doing is not silencing opponents, but rather refusing to acknowledge anything stated. So, not silencing, but playing deaf? The result feels the same, although the mechanism is different. It is effective trolling.

The thing that surprises me is how much support trolling gets, but that seems to be the way of the land in this zone.
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Old 05-19-2017, 05:43 PM   #66
Terran
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refusing to acknowledge anything stated. So, not silencing, but playing deaf?.
LOL! The irony of you refusing to support your 51%+ assertion and refusing to define who the hell they actually are (you've referred to them in several contrasting ways), while criticizing others who are actually interacting with your ideas, as spare and illogical as they may be, while you do what you falsely accuse others of doing is rich in amusement for me.

Troll on, Whimbrel!
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Old 05-19-2017, 05:48 PM   #67
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Wow, you're dumb.
Have you read his posts in this thread? If he hadn't been silenced you'd be less surprised! The horror!
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Old 05-20-2017, 11:18 AM   #68
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I think I see your point here. I was perhaps giving too much credit to Terran's representation of what was problematic in the magazine and to whom that was a problem. I also read into it what I know of Coates from other contexts and assumed that he was deliberately poking the right. Furthering the problem, I may have been misusing the term alt-right.
I'm confused as to why you're pointing to Terran's representation of what was problematic in the magazine and who found it to be problematic because the foundation of my criticism is based upon your first post, which was before Terran had posted in this thread. Could you explain this further for me?

Generally, as seen with the media, the alt-right is used as a term to tie people to white supremacy/anti-Semiticism or to outright call them white supremacists/anti-Semitic. According to NPR: What You Need To Know About The Alt-Right Movement
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The presidential candidates this week accused one another of racism and bigotry, with Hillary Clinton arguing that Donald Trump's rhetoric and policies are an invitation to the "alt-right" movement.

"This is not conservatism as we have known it," the Democratic nominee said on Thursday during a speech in Reno, Nev. "This is not Republicanism as we have known it. These are racist ideas. These are race-baiting ideas. Anti-Muslim, anti-immigrant, anti-women ideas all key tenets making up an emerging racist ideology known as the 'alt-right.'"

So what, exactly, is the "alt-right"?
The views of the alt-right are widely seen as anti-Semitic and white supremacist.
The problem, to me, was that the alt-right quickly became a label used for anyone that didn't hold modern progressive views. If you didn't support a liberal female politician, it was because you were a member of the alt-right and hated women (note: if you didn't support a conservative female politician, this rule didn't apply). Now I don't think even with the broad use of the term alt-right really reflects a simple majority of comic buyers, as evident with your own feelings.

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I assume that there is a strong contingent of right leaning comic buyers as there seems to be on this forum. I have no data to support this, it is just a personal opinion. I would also assume that any group would be displeased by deliberate partisan poking from the opposition, and if this were involved, I can certainly see how it would lead to that being a commercial failure.
I'd be more inclined to believe that comic buyers, as a whole, leaned left. Your view, which I agree with, that most groups don't like to be the target of deliberate partisan poking seems at odds with the idea that the majority of comic buyers are members of the alt-right for two reason: 1) Comics have long had Left-leaning themes running through them and 2) even you, someone who is a self-identified liberal, is put off by the heavy handed way they seem to do these things. This isn't something new; I remember buying the Ultimates comics when they launched and understanding that the quite clear political jabs being thrown.

If the majority of comic buyers were members of the alt-right and poking them got a negative reaction from that group, I wouldn't expect the comic book industry to continue growing. If anything, I'd personally guess that would mean that alt-right buyers had left the market and were replaced by more consumers that hailed with Leftist views. And again, if you're turned off by the approach as a Leftist yourself, I'm not sure my guess really even explains it.

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My other point, albeit a minor one, was that I am not that fond of heavy handed moralizing in superhero stories either in comic books or film. Recently the great themes seem a bit much and the humor and fantasy of the early, goofy comics seems to have been completely abandoned. REmember when super heroes were fighting people robbing banks and jewelry stores with cloth sacks and black masks? Not everything needs to involve global surveillance, apocalyptic destruction, deep personal angst about family trauma, and horrific psychological torture. I really liked the old goofy comics because they were an escape. I may be the only one.
And this, to me, supports my stances and stands in contrast with your view that the comic industry is based upon a consumer block that is an alt-right majority. As noted earlier, you're a self-identified liberal and even you aren't a fan of this approach. So, if you feel it's heavy handed it, which is probably exemplified by this Black Panther and Crew series, how could the comic industry being doing so well with all of these view points being pushed in a heavy handed fashion? Even the more mainstream comics seemed fairly overt about this (I recall reading the early Ultimates and noticing a fairly clear point of view being pushed).
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Old 05-20-2017, 03:55 PM   #69
Rommel
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Have you read his posts in this thread? If he hadn't been silenced you'd be less surprised! The horror!
Silenced, what are you talking about?

I know chimp is dumb, so it's no surprise. He displays very poor reading comprehension skills and often gets irate because he's confused about not only the topic but what people are stating within that topic.

What do you mean silenced?
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Old 05-20-2017, 04:28 PM   #70
Terran
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What do you mean silenced?
You're messing with me, right? I was mockingly referencing his complaint about being silenced, Rommel. As he continued to post on his silencing. And of course that was just further support for his assertion that folks here, like himself, are silenced. So he posted about it a bunch. Silently.
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Old 05-21-2017, 06:28 AM   #71
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Whimbrel is the most willfully naive individual l even come across on the internet. Its fucking amazing.
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Old 05-21-2017, 06:32 AM   #72
blackzc
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The cancellation of this book has to do with Marvel being filthy bigot racist who don't have the courage to back a black comic character when the sales aren't exactly what they want them to be. They must be jelly of the BBC
I totally agree bro. We should boycott Marvel and write a letter to congress and the SPLC.
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Old 05-22-2017, 09:02 AM   #73
Whimbrel
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I'm confused as to why you're pointing to Terran's representation of what was problematic in the magazine and who found it to be problematic because the foundation of my criticism is based upon your first post, which was before Terran had posted in this thread. Could you explain this further for me?

.
I think Terran was the op for the original news item. I could be wrong about this.

In terms of comics in general and the buying audience in general, I don't have a sense of how many titles have heavy handed moralistic themes involved at any point in the spectrum from liberal to conservative. Obviously, I don't blame any individual or group for disliking it, and I don't like it. My point about how common the trend seems towards this has to do more with recent movies, tv shows, and netflix series that seem to place a premium on psychological angst and heavy handed social themes in super hero contexts. I'd prefer a more golden age treatment for many of these titles.
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