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Old 04-13-2014, 01:22 AM   #41
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Weak troll attempt. I know the thread hasn't been bumped in a while, but if you want to see some activity here, you'll have to do a little better than that.
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Old 04-13-2014, 05:47 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by SpectralThundr View Post
I can't wait for this scam to explode and folks that put a lot into it to be left with nothing. Anyone who thinks Governments are going to allow bitcoin to replace their stranglehold over world economies is either extremely naive, flat out retarded, or a mix of the two is in for a rude awakening.
We're into bitcoin because what the government is doing to our money is unethical.

Typically when someone is profiting off you they tend to try to protect that privilege.

So you sitting here saying "hey, the government is going to protect its privilege, duh" is correct, I agree with you they will want to protect it. They're still bastards for doing so and should be resisted.

Now then, the question of how they can resist bitcoin?

The simple fact is that bitcoin presents to them no means of subversion. They cannot break the tech--the cryptography of it (some say there's a chance they could find flaws, this is true, but flaws are patchable and any resulting damage entirely reversible, so it's pointless to try and we don't expect governments will bothere therefore).

And they can't put pressure on the "bitcoin company" because there is no bitcoin company.

They can't attack the motives of its founder because he's successfully remained anonymous.

They can't attack its source files because they're open source for all to see.

They can't attack miners as their jurisdiction is not worldwide and they're doing nothing easily, demonizable.

They can't shut down the internet which is what would need to actually happen for them to successfully attack bitcoin.

They can't do this because people would not accept it. And despite the government's incredible power, that power is quite literally contingent on public acceptance of their right to wield power.

So, many of us have concluded that in a contest between their perception of legitimacy and giving up the right to control and profit from money, governments are likely to give up control of money, or at least hope that nothing will come from bitcoin so it doesn't come to that.

I've yet to find anyone who actually opposes bitcoin who actually understands it. Yours is just another attack from ignorance. You say the government won't allow it to exist, but if you actually propose how the government could oppose bitcoin and potential responses by the bitcoin community, you might find the case is not so open and shut as you think.

There's a reason why millions of people have bet millions of dollars that bitcoin will successfully oppose attempts at government regulation, and it's because an investigation of the facts surrounding this question makes things look in bitcoin's favor, not the reverse.

But you're hubristic enough to think everyone else is a moron, apparently :P

Oh well, just another guy that will be saying "I could've invested way back when" years from now.
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Old 04-13-2014, 09:03 PM   #43
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Now then, the question of how they can resist bitcoin?
Like China already has shown.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anenome
The simple fact is that bitcoin presents to them no means of subversion. They cannot break the tech--the cryptography of it (some say there's a chance they could find flaws, this is true, but flaws are patchable and any resulting damage entirely reversible, so it's pointless to try and we don't expect governments will bothere therefore).
This is, of course, due to your overly optimistic, evangelical belief in bitcoin. They cannot break the tech? Possibly, but this again brings us back to Quantum Computing... which Bitcoin cites as a very real threat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anenome
And they can't put pressure on the "bitcoin company" because there is no bitcoin company.
Sure, the government just attacks the vendors that will allow Bitcoin, and also the government goes after investors (this is already seen with the first strike by the IRS).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anenome
They can't attack the motives of its founder because he's successfully remained anonymous.
Someone's anonymity does not protect you from attacks regarding the motives for the creation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anenome
They can't attack miners as their jurisdiction is not worldwide and they're doing nothing easily, demonizable.
The US has illustrated it will do what it wishes without regard for jurisdiction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anenome[B
They can't shut down the internet[/B] which is what would need to actually happen for them to successfully attack bitcoin.
This is absolutely absurd. It has already been shown that Bitcoin can successfully be attacked via exchanges.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anenome
They can't do this because people would not accept it. And despite the government's incredible power, that power is quite literally contingent on public acceptance of their right to wield power.
Sure, and has the government not done well in demonizing those who want to evade "their fair share" -- taxes -- and also, they've continued to push the ACA down the throats of people. I thought you had been following the NSA stuff... they seem to show little concern with public acceptance. This is especially true in their shadowy actions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anenome
So, many of us have concluded that in a contest between their perception of legitimacy and giving up the right to control and profit from money, governments are likely to give up control of money, or at least hope that nothing will come from bitcoin so it doesn't come to that.
Which isn't an actual contest currently going on. This is true for a variety of rather obvious reasons. Especially seeing as people continue to call for yet more government intervention... it's probably not an issue to worry about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anenome
I've yet to find anyone who actually opposes bitcoin who actually understands it. Yours is just another attack from ignorance. You say the government won't allow it to exist, but if you actually propose how the government could oppose bitcoin and potential responses by the bitcoin community, you might find the case is not so open and shut as you think.
On the obvious flip side... you seem all too willing, as usual, to ignore real hurdles as if they almost didn't exist. You seem to have an inability, most likely due to willfully being ignorant, of understand that the government is not required to make Bitcoin forever disappear to effectively defeat it. The irony in you stating that the case isn't so open and shut is that the case is clearly open and shut for you. We've seen you claim that Quantum Computing offers no real threat, of course Bitcoin.org states it does, and you assume that if a problem arises it'll just be "patched". Isn't that convenient? It's not a surprise as you're admittedly an evangelical Bitcoin supporter, preaching your sermons in hopes of it being a path to your transition into becoming very wealthy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anenome
There's a reason why millions of people have bet millions of dollars that bitcoin will successfully oppose attempts at government regulation, and it's because an investigation of the facts surrounding this question makes things look in bitcoin's favor, not the reverse.
That sounds great... but Bitcoin has already not opposed attempts at government regulation. The irony of your position is that those that are driving Bitcoin are actually trying to move away from your type of anarchist capitalist thinking and into the arms of regulation.

Just one example:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coindesk
The price of bitcoin has fallen rapidly in recent weeks, after rumors surfaced on 27th March that suggested the PBOC, China’s central bank, would be looking to more tightly enforce restrictions it passed in December meant to ensure a separation between its nationalized banking system and the nascent digital currency industry.
As for the number of people that actually own Bitcoin:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BI
absolute maximum of around 2.5 million people own bitcoins right now. But approximately half of these addresses have very, very small amounts of bitcoin in – what is termed ‘dust’, or less than one millibit (0.001 btc).....
Why do so many addresses hold next to nothing? One theory is that back in 2011 a denial of service attack was launched against the bitcoin network by ‘spamming’ it with small transactions....
In any case, that leaves us with a balance of around 1.2 million addresses that have a meaningful quantity of bitcoins in – and the vast majority of these, almost one million, hold less than a full bitcoin. The total of this million-or-so accounts is just 87,000 btc.

The rest of the world’s bitcoin wealth is distributed among the remaining 250,000-odd addresses. Just 97 addresses have a balance over 10,000 btc, and two addresses more than 100,000. It’s fair to assume that one of these belongs to Satoshi Nakamoto. He (or they) is sitting on a fortune of around $1 billion US at current prices, and has been for a while. Incidentally, it might be relevant that around half of the bitcoins in the world, 5.5 million, are sitting in addresses that haven’t been touched in over 2 years, and many of them over 3 years. We can’t know how many of these represent deep cold storage, and how many are down to forgotten private keys.
More wonderful Bitcoin news:
Quote:
The British boss of a company selling the virtual currency Bitcoins is now wanted by Cyprus police on suspicion of fraud.
Danny Brewster, 27, is accused of failing to deliver £70,000 worth of bitcoins, a currency created on a computer but increasingly used in real world transactions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anenome
But you're hubristic enough to think everyone else is a moron, apparently
Says the guy who declares his interpretation of the Bible as "theological truths", and who declares his vision of the perfect society setup is without flaws...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anenome
Oh well, just another guy that will be saying "I could've invested way back when" years from now.
Hey, look... hubris.
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Old 04-13-2014, 09:27 PM   #44
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Nevermind, troll attempt succeeded.
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Old 04-14-2014, 02:16 AM   #45
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Like China already has shown.
Do you think a user in China can't send or receive bitcoin.

lol.
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Old 04-14-2014, 09:47 AM   #46
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Do you think a user in China can't send or receive bitcoin.

lol.
Sure, they can. Of course anyone that was watching Bitcoin would see what happened to the value of Bitcoin as a result of fear of regulations coming down the pipe. Now people get to watch it act like a YoYo toy.

Didn't brother Anenome read from the holy bitcoin subreddit that regulations will be successfully opposed by Bitcoin? Yup. Has he already been shown to be incorrect? Yup.

You don't seem to understand that the government, the US in particular, can target businesses that deal in Bitcoin in an effort to hamper it, or make it such a pain that it isn't worth it to them.

Per the BI article: There aren't that many people actually participating in Bitcoin.
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Old 04-14-2014, 10:39 AM   #47
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You don't seem to understand that the government, the US in particular, can target businesses that deal in Bitcoin in an effort to hamper it, or make it such a pain that it isn't worth it to them.
And you don't understand agorism.
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Old 04-14-2014, 01:04 PM   #48
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And you don't understand agorism.
I do. You don't seem to understand reality. You live in the United States. The IRS in the United States has ruled that Bitcoin is to be subject to capital gains taxes. Some, like Inscribed, have declared they simply won't report it. They may get "away with it" (probably very likely), but being as there is a small number of people actually participating in Bitcoin.... the pool of which the IRS can search isn't that large if they so choose. Hello Statist Law, goodbye dreams of Agorism.

Agorism is already dead within Bitcoin... as many States impose their laws on Bitcoin... as seen in China and the United States (and the market shows the reactions to this). The fact that many of the bigger players in Bitcoin are attempting to dump those of your mindset is humorous. Many of those involved in Bitcoin are actively seeking regulations, some self-imposed which would still qualify as Agorism, and some from the State... which isn't Agorism.

So, apparently you are the one that doesn't understand Agorism, or you don't understand the direction in which Bitcoin is going. As you go recruit people to join in the experiment of Bitcoin you are actually helping the people who want to push for regulation.

Anything that presents an obstacle to Bitcoin you merely:
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Old 04-14-2014, 02:01 PM   #49
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We're into bitcoin because what the government is doing to our money is unethical.

Typically when someone is profiting off you they tend to try to protect that privilege.

So you sitting here saying "hey, the government is going to protect its privilege, duh" is correct, I agree with you they will want to protect it. They're still bastards for doing so and should be resisted.

Now then, the question of how they can resist bitcoin?

The simple fact is that bitcoin presents to them no means of subversion. They cannot break the tech--the cryptography of it (some say there's a chance they could find flaws, this is true, but flaws are patchable and any resulting damage entirely reversible, so it's pointless to try and we don't expect governments will bothere therefore).

And they can't put pressure on the "bitcoin company" because there is no bitcoin company.

They can't attack the motives of its founder because he's successfully remained anonymous.

They can't attack its source files because they're open source for all to see.

They can't attack miners as their jurisdiction is not worldwide and they're doing nothing easily, demonizable.

They can't shut down the internet which is what would need to actually happen for them to successfully attack bitcoin.

They can't do this because people would not accept it. And despite the government's incredible power, that power is quite literally contingent on public acceptance of their right to wield power.

So, many of us have concluded that in a contest between their perception of legitimacy and giving up the right to control and profit from money, governments are likely to give up control of money, or at least hope that nothing will come from bitcoin so it doesn't come to that.

I've yet to find anyone who actually opposes bitcoin who actually understands it. Yours is just another attack from ignorance. You say the government won't allow it to exist, but if you actually propose how the government could oppose bitcoin and potential responses by the bitcoin community, you might find the case is not so open and shut as you think.

There's a reason why millions of people have bet millions of dollars that bitcoin will successfully oppose attempts at government regulation, and it's because an investigation of the facts surrounding this question makes things look in bitcoin's favor, not the reverse.

But you're hubristic enough to think everyone else is a moron, apparently :P

Oh well, just another guy that will be saying "I could've invested way back when" years from now.
So I guess you think laundering money should be legal too right? Since there's more money laundering going on in regards to bit coin than likely actual fiat dollars at this point.

It won't be successful, the governments around the world WILL NOT give up their control. This seems to be common sense to most except for you and a few other naive folks around here.
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Old 04-14-2014, 02:21 PM   #50
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Some, like Inscribed, have declared they simply won't report it.
Yo, be cool. I lost all my bitcoins.
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Old 04-14-2014, 02:40 PM   #51
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Yo, be cool. I lost all my bitcoins.
Oh, that was a typo on my part. I meant to say that people like inscribed unfortunately lost their bitcoins.
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:38 PM   #52
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I spent $1k chasing the dragon by cashing out one share of Google stock (I may regret that eventually), it's been a fun ride and maybe my investment will one day be redeemed by the speculation of a big boom and take over as preferential currency. Who doesn't want to be a multi-millionaire when they grow up?
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Old 04-14-2014, 06:24 PM   #53
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So I guess you think laundering money should be legal too right?
Yes I do. Money laundering is a fake crime, a victimless crime, and should not be regulated at all. You want to stop criminal action, stop it when it's being done. AML laws just kill everyone else's privacy. I don't think the government has a right to know what I'm doing with my money, or to force my bank to report on me like some financial gestapo.

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Since there's more money laundering going on in regards to bit coin than likely actual fiat dollars at this point.
Not all money laundering is the product of unethical acts. The shadow economy is considerable even in the US.

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It won't be successful, the governments around the world WILL NOT give up their control.
Sure they won't give it up, but control can be taken from them, against their will even.

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This seems to be common sense to most except for you and a few other naive folks around here.
Spectral, I'm a radical for change, if I didn't think radical, fundamental change was possible in our lifetimes, I would be someone far more boring and defeatist like you. Enjoy your status quo.
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Old 04-14-2014, 06:25 PM   #54
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Venom, we get it, you don't think it's gonna happen. Fine. I'm not convinced by your arguments, you're not convinced by mine.

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I spent $1k chasing the dragon by cashing out one share of Google stock (I may regret that eventually), it's been a fun ride and maybe my investment will one day be redeemed by the speculation of a big boom and take over as preferential currency. Who doesn't want to be a multi-millionaire when they grow up?
Oh I think Google has pretty much maxxed out their stock value. It's all earnings from now on.

But bitcoin's upside is still potentially gigantic.
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Old 04-14-2014, 07:38 PM   #55
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Venom, we get it, you don't think it's gonna happen. Fine. I'm not convinced by your arguments, you're not convinced by mine.
Sure. You just seem all too content to offer a position that is one of nearly cult like, religious faith of Bitcoin. Not wanting to offer anything negative, pretending that Bitcoin is guaranteed, comes off as trying to sell someone on a pyramid scheme. It's not right, in my opinion, to do so much selling while you very real issues.
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Old 04-14-2014, 07:43 PM   #56
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Amazon rejects Bitcoin

Gyft Forced to Abruptly End Walmart Gift Card Support
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Old 04-14-2014, 08:37 PM   #57
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Sure. You just seem all too content to offer a position that is one of nearly cult like, religious faith of Bitcoin. Not wanting to offer anything negative, pretending that Bitcoin is guaranteed, comes off as trying to sell someone on a pyramid scheme. It's not right, in my opinion, to do so much selling while you very real issues.
Not at all. I acknowledge it's extremely risky. I have never said it's a sure thing. That said I haven't yet seen anything that I think will surely cause it to fail either.
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Old 04-14-2014, 08:39 PM   #58
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Of course Amazon rejects bitcoin. The large companies were always going to be last adopters, too much momentum and they tend to want to build their own payment gateways rather than adopt someone else's.

Beyind that, Amazon had been pushing Amazon coin which competes with bitcoin as digital money. So naturally. Who was the wise guy who even expected them to. Not me.
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Old 04-15-2014, 10:53 AM   #59
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Bloomberg: Why Bitcoin is the Smart Bet in Tech Investing
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April 15 (Bloomberg) -- Draper Fisher Jurvetson Founding Partner Tim Draper discusses his tech investment ideas on Bloomberg Television's “In The Loop.” (Source: Bloomberg)

I want to ask you, which of the areas in technology right now are you most in trade about from an investment perspective?

I think it is bitcoin.

I think it really has the potential, it and other virtual currencies have the potential to transform the world ready much the way the internet did way back when.

I have heard that before.

It is a way of all finance, all commerce everything can be transformed.

It is like one abstraction past where we are today.

It used to be we trade shells for services and then it moved to gold for services.

Then it was a note that says we will pay you gold for services.

Do you think it is bitcoin in the current form as a currency, or is it the technology behind bitcoin that will eventually survive?

It turns out in any industry there is always some movement and always a possibility there are other types of coins that become more prevalent...
*coughzerocoincough*
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Old 04-15-2014, 05:17 PM   #60
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Why I Lost Faith In Bitcoin As A Money Transfer Protocol
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