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Old 05-13-2008, 10:26 AM   #41
Ten19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sflufan View Post
Right now, DD and SK are being roasted alive on every internet gaming forum for dropping the 4 player co-op.

I didn't realize what a big deal it was!
In any given situation, there will always be some subset of people who will "roast alive" a game developer over any given development decision.

Honestly, I'm happy with 2 player co-op, it sounds like it will be a lot of fun. It's not like they shipped the game with 4 player co-op and then patched it out. People need to relax.
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Old 05-13-2008, 10:29 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Ten19 View Post
In any given situation, there will always be some subset of people who will "roast alive" a game developer over any given development decision.

Honestly, I'm happy with 2 player co-op, it sounds like it will be a lot of fun. It's not like they shipped the game with 4 player co-op and then patched it out. People need to relax.
Well, it just goes to show one of the classic rules of development: Release information slowly and sparingly, and never promise anything you won't deliver. It'll blow over, but they made the mistake of saying they would have 4 player co-op, now they have to deal with the fallout.
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Old 05-13-2008, 10:29 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by sflufan View Post
Right now, DD and SK are being roasted alive on every internet gaming forum for dropping the 4 player co-op.

I didn't realize what a big deal it was!
As Ten19 said, there is a subset of people that hate when things are dropped from what was originally planned. I'd like to make a comparison though, at least Too Human still has co-op play whereas the recently delayed Prototype does not at the moment.
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Old 05-13-2008, 10:37 AM   #44
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The lack of 4 player co-op is pretty disappointing to me. I understand it can get quite chaotic, but it can't be any more so than how Diablo II would get (see: Worldstone). Honestly, they could have just scaled health points (a la Diablo II) based on the number of players. However, if they're planning on swarming you with enemies, I see how it'd get out of control with even just 4 players.
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Old 05-13-2008, 10:41 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by AgtFox View Post
As Ten19 said, there is a subset of people that hate when things are dropped from what was originally planned. I'd like to make a comparison though, at least Too Human still has co-op play whereas the recently delayed Prototype does not at the moment.
There are a lot of people that were looking at TH as the coming of Diablo style multi player for the consoles. Many of those, including myself, had the 4 play co-op as a primary reason to purchase TH.

I've watched the new co-op game play vid and the game is looking awesome. But the drop of 4 player co-op has removed it from the top of my purchase list when it comes to saving money for games. With 4 player I would play it the general public. But only able to play with one other person means a friend only and even then I usually have at least two friends on that want to play something. Right now all we really have is Two Worlds.
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Old 05-13-2008, 10:45 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by AgtFox View Post
As Ten19 said, there is a subset of people that hate when things are dropped from what was originally planned.
Not surprising. We are gamers and we do what we do best; whine.

I guess we should look at it more rationally and see the game for what it is and ignore earlier "promises". It still has co-op. Are people really going to ignore it because it's "only" 2-player? Doubt it. People aren't going to ignore MGS4, GTAIV, Ninja Gaiden 2 or Banjo 3 just because there's no co-op. I just think the amount of whining we see as a result of announcement like this and the removing of co-op in Prototype is a bit silly. I understand why people are disappointed, but there's no reason to overreact.
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Old 05-13-2008, 10:48 AM   #47
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Jezuz tits this place is getting top heavy and heavy handed.
First, people upset about the removel of a major device for enjoying a game, are not a subset. And saying they are makes it sound like they are unrealistic individuals who are just stupid. They wanted the game, it said it had 4 player now it doesn't. I wouldn't and couldn't play 4 player but for christ sakes I would never pool a group of people who had their hopes up about an ALREADY announced feature into a subset so that it made them sound like their opinion should matter less.
This isn't neogaf for shit sakes.
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Old 05-13-2008, 10:49 AM   #48
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I didn't read all of the interview yet, but did he say how taking a character you've been with one friend, can you play with it single, and move to other co-op games? Or do you have to roll a different character for different sessions?
He didn't say in this interview but it has been said somewhere before that the character is save on your drive and can be played in both. I will probably start a friends only game as if I'm playing single player so that friends can come and go as they see fit.
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Old 05-13-2008, 10:55 AM   #49
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Losing 4 player co-op sucks but it's not the end of the world and at least there's a reason. I've played a few 4 player co-op games where there's so much on the screen I lose track of my guy and die. It's a very frustrating experience. That said, I can still see some people who would have liked it as an option.
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Old 05-13-2008, 10:56 AM   #50
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Awesome to finally get a release date. Really good interview too.

has there been any word on whether or not we will be getting a demo for this yet?
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Old 05-13-2008, 10:59 AM   #51
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I didn't even know this had, at one time, planned for 4-player co-op. That would have been a great feature for me as I frequently have to share my Xbox 360 with my siblings, and playing that game would of allowed all of us to play and not just sit around and watch others play whatever they are interested in.

These types of games need multiplayer IMO. 2-player co-op isn't so bad though.
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Old 05-13-2008, 11:01 AM   #52
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The other reason people are looking over is balancing issues. Especially since the co-op skills stack. Once you have 4 players with (i think 5 classes?) you'd have to check every variation of that and balance that against the rest. My guess is besides the frantic pace, something like that just got out of control.

Denis already said the Beserker gives speed and combo bonuses to everyone. Now stack taht times 4 and it's a total blur of guys on the screen.

yeah, it's a disappointment, and I would have loved to see them give 3 player co-op a try at least, but it sounds like the rest of the game is going to make up for it.
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Old 05-13-2008, 11:02 AM   #53
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Not surprising. We are gamers and we do what we do best; whine.

I guess we should look at it more rationally and see the game for what it is and ignore earlier "promises". It still has co-op. Are people really going to ignore it because it's "only" 2-player? Doubt it. People aren't going to ignore MGS4, GTAIV, Ninja Gaiden 2 or Banjo 3 just because there's no co-op. I just think the amount of whining we see as a result of announcement like this and the removing of co-op in Prototype is a bit silly. I understand why people are disappointed, but there's no reason to overreact.
The difference is that Too Human was billed as bringing "Diablo to the consoles." One of draws (some would argue the most important aspect) of Diablo was the multiplayer aspect. Without that multiplayer, the search for loot wouldn't have become as interesting or enticing for a majority of the players.

The more I think about this news, the more I'm disappointed. I'm with SPBTool. I went from being at a frenzy for Too Human to probably only renting it.
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Old 05-13-2008, 11:07 AM   #54
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I remember 4 player co-op in games like Marvel: Ultimate Alliance and the X-Men one (name escapes me) and it was way too hectic, as the guy said.
I really didn't enjoy those games when played 4 player.
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Old 05-13-2008, 11:13 AM   #55
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I remember 4 player co-op in games like Marvel: Ultimate Alliance and the X-Men one (name escapes me) and it was way too hectic, as the guy said.
I really didn't enjoy those games when played 4 player.
I don't think that comparison really stands, though. Too Human doesn't control like a brawler where you have to find an enemy and then make sure your hitting him. Too Human's controls are like Geometry Wars i.e. idiot proof.

This isn't a perfect comparison either, but a more apt comparison would be Phantasy Star Online, which worked just fine with 4 players. Heck, it made the game.
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Old 05-13-2008, 11:18 AM   #56
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I have been looking forward to this game for a LONG time ... a little over 3 months from now, my wait will finally be over!

I can't wait, this co-op experience will be of epic proportions!
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Old 05-13-2008, 11:29 AM   #57
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I don't think that comparison really stands, though. Too Human doesn't control like a brawler where you have to find an enemy and then make sure your hitting him. Too Human's controls are like Geometry Wars i.e. idiot proof.

This isn't a perfect comparison either, but a more apt comparison would be Phantasy Star Online, which worked just fine with 4 players. Heck, it made the game.
It's funny that you mention Geometry Wars as an example of idiot-proof. Geometry Wars is exactly the game my wife said looked like "utter chaos" when she watched me play it. She absolutely refused to touch it based on her impression of the game.

Personally, I didn't even know 4-player co-op was planned, so the reduction means nothing to me.

First day purchase for me unless I see something really bad before then.
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Old 05-13-2008, 11:33 AM   #58
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It's funny that you mention Geometry Wars as an example of idiot-proof. Geometry Wars is exactly the game my wife said looked like "utter chaos" when she watched me play it. She absolutely refused to touch it based on her impression of the game.

Personally, I didn't even know 4-player co-op was planned, so the reduction means nothing to me.

First day purchase for me unless I see something really bad before then.
Geometry Wars certainly looks chaotic with all the pretty colors, but I think you know what I meant with my comment. The controls don't require any subtlety. You don't have to worry about some enemy's hitbox in Too Human. You just push your stick towards them, and you're essentially locked on.

To each his own. I think they've certainly hurt themselves with this. Without some sort of thriving online community, loot gathering isn't nearly as interesting. Then again, there should be some sort of marketplace or lobby in the online component, right?

To clarify, 2 player co-op is well-suited for some games. However, for action RPGs, I don't think a cap of 2 isn't nearly enough to get that real PSO/Diablo experience we're craving.
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Old 05-13-2008, 11:39 AM   #59
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I think the reduction from four-player to two-player co-op just buried any vestiges of interest that might have been lingering in my head. The comparisons to Diablo and Phantasy Star Online seem limp now.

Next to the rest of what Microsoft showed today, the production values seem weak to the point where I have difficulty regarding the title as a Microsoft second-party game.

I would still be surprised if the game turned out to be a complete failure, but I can't see it outshining titles like Ninja Gaiden II and Gears of War 2. I guess Silicon Knights should start praying that immediately after the likes of Ninja Gaiden II, Metal Gear Solid 4, Soul Calibur IV, and just before Little Big Planet, Resistance 2, Gears of War 2, that nothing else is announced for August release.
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Old 05-13-2008, 11:41 AM   #60
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The move from 4 player co-op to 2 player co-op is what caused me to pass on Rainbow Six: Vegas 2.

All I'm saying.
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