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Old 12-11-2017, 11:51 PM   #21
JazGalaxy
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Originally Posted by Rommel View Post
Virtua Fighter 3 is considered a pariah for this reason... Hardcore fighting game fans want an even playing field and reject anything beyond the purity of two fighters facing off to one another. This is the tournament scene, the lot that promotes the title for years after release in the form of events and twitch streams. Since this group forms the base market for the genre and keeps the games afloat, fighting game devs have to cater to this group.

At the same time, this group is not big enough to make a title successful, the old casual vs. hardcore argument. Casual fighting game players want ease of operation, innovative gameplay methods and features and a single player campaign that makes them feel like their $60 purchase was justified because once they go online they find they CANNOT play this game. Since this group forms the margin, fighting game devs have to cater to this group.

As usual, balancing the above is harder than balancing the actual roster.
I can understand that, but I donít understand the value of catering to the hard core crowd. Unless Iím mistaken, donít they. Just buy one copy and then that is that? They are the most demanding customers, but they arenít actually spending any more money, are they? Because while they are breaking their backs trying to please the unpleasantly, DOA is making tons of money off of costumes and stages.

Personally, Iím the 90s, I used to play every fighting game that came out. But I would play for about 30 hours and then move on to the next one. I guarantee I put more money into those companies than the ďhardcoreĒ guys who only play one game everyday for years.
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Old 12-12-2017, 12:55 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by JazGalaxy View Post
I can understand that, but I donít understand the value of catering to the hard core crowd. Unless Iím mistaken, donít they. Just buy one copy and then that is that? They are the most demanding customers, but they arenít actually spending any more money, are they? Because while they are breaking their backs trying to please the unpleasantly, DOA is making tons of money off of costumes and stages.

Personally, Iím the 90s, I used to play every fighting game that came out. But I would play for about 30 hours and then move on to the next one. I guarantee I put more money into those companies than the ďhardcoreĒ guys who only play one game everyday for years.
I think you're not giving those guys enough credit. First of all, I'm sure they're spending just as much on costumes as the average player. At some point, I'd like to learn how much that actually is, by the way. I get that new outfits are easy to make, but you still have to test them, patch the game, use a slot on the PlayStation Store etc. pp.

Judging by the sheer number of user ratings, about 1 to 2 percent of the players buy the sexy costumes for some characters (assuming that buyers like to vote for USD-2.99 items as much as for the 39.99 core game). For the other stuff, it's usually less than .5 percent. And that's only for the people who bought the game digitally, as retail customers (about 75% of the overall target audience) can't vote. So, even if you sell a million DoA5 across all console platforms (which seems to be a reasonable guess), the target audience for costumes is only about 5,000 to 10,000 people strong - if we assume they buy multiple costumes and not just 10 guys buying 1 each.

Let's say those 10,000 people buy 10 costume packs each, at 5 dollars. Heck, let's say 10 dollars, to make sure they get a good amount of bundles. That's a million dollars, or 700,000 after Sony takes their cut (not sure about taxes, seeing how Koei Tecmo is a Japanese company). For these 700,000 dollars, they need to produce at least 100 costumes, make sure they interact properly with all existing models and other costume packs, and patch the game multiple times.

I don't know. Maybe my math is off, but that seems more like a marketing measure than a serious way to earn money to me.
...
Damn, I got sidetracked. What I actually wanted to say was:
1. Ever since alt.games.sf2, fighting games were defined by their community. You certainly can attract a mainstream crowd by adding impressive CGI movies (I hope you still remember how amazing the first "Tekken" on PlayStation looked... back then:-), but without the "blessing" of the core community, most of the casuals won't bother with your title.
2. Most of the really hard-core fighting game enthusiasts buy multiple games in the genre - certainly more than the average DoA5+ "OMG" setting fan.
3. I don't have data to back this up, but I'm fairly certain Japanese core gamers are still spending a good amount of money in arcades. I happen to know that "Dissidia" was the top-earning arcade machine in 2016... or was that 2015? Eh, probably both.
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Old 12-12-2017, 10:37 AM   #23
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I agree with what you have said, as youíve said it. But isnít that the thinking that led Capcom to release their stripped down, hardcore-fans-only version of SF5 that nobody actually wanted?

I really do think that catering to the ďhardcoreĒ is a massive, massive mistake. But again, thatís because thatís not me. I didnít buy SF5 and I am 100% the person who should have bought it. But iím Not modernĒhardcoreĒ. I would have paid my 60 dollars, best it with every character to see all the endings, played couch co op with people and then moved on. They basically said ďwe donít make games for you anymoreĒ.

So... back to DOA for mei guess.
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Old 12-13-2017, 01:32 AM   #24
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I agree with what you have said, as you’ve said it. But isn’t that the thinking that led Capcom to release their stripped down, hardcore-fans-only version of SF5 that nobody actually wanted?

I really do think that catering to the “hardcore” is a massive, massive mistake. But again, that’s because that’s not me. I didn’t buy SF5 and I am 100% the person who should have bought it. But i’m Not modern”hardcore”. I would have paid my 60 dollars, best it with every character to see all the endings, played couch co op with people and then moved on. They basically said “we don’t make games for you anymore”.

So... back to DOA for mei guess.
You will be pleased to hear that Capcom will FINALLY add an arcade mode to SFV in January:

https://game.capcom.com/cfn/sfv/promotion/ae?lang=en

I'll probably fire SFV up again once that update hits, but I fear* this might be too little, too late. It's a shame, too, because at its core, the game is excellent. I had to compare it to the old Amiga "Street Fighter II" recently, so I was forced to spend some more time with it... and also give the online mode a try, which worked great. Aside from the overly excellent animations (which, unfortunately, make some moves feel sluggish), Capcom has managed to produce a great game for mid-core players. Its systems are easy enough for anyone to comprehend, but some combos are just slightly too complex for casuals like me, giving veterans a distinct advantage online.

*) Speaking of fears: I sincerely hope Capcom won't use the godawful "stories" and "art"work from the characters' personal stories. Those were one of the main reasons (together with the insane grind and annoying in-game shop) why I stopped playing almost immediately after release.

Edit: Looks like they won't. There's a screenshot of a one-page comic, showing the typical Ryu ending from SF2. Must... not... get... my... hopes... up.
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Last edited by Scherge; 12-13-2017 at 02:00 AM.. Reason: Additional info.
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Old 12-13-2017, 02:45 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by JazGalaxy View Post
I can understand that, but I donít understand the value of catering to the hard core crowd. Unless Iím mistaken, donít they. Just buy one copy and then that is that? They are the most demanding customers, but they arenít actually spending any more money, are they? Because while they are breaking their backs trying to please the unpleasantly, DOA is making tons of money off of costumes and stages.

Personally, Iím the 90s, I used to play every fighting game that came out. But I would play for about 30 hours and then move on to the next one. I guarantee I put more money into those companies than the ďhardcoreĒ guys who only play one game everyday for years.
The hardcore guys owned the game and were putting in quarters at the arcade so what are you talking about?
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Old 12-13-2017, 06:38 AM   #26
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The hardcore guys owned the game and were putting in quarters at the arcade so what are you talking about?
Who's alt are you?
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