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Old 06-20-2017, 03:50 AM   #21
JazGalaxy
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Originally Posted by blackzc View Post
One thing that i would love to see is a respite from the mainstream. Nintendo did a great job with the WiiU and im sure the Switch will be great but more would be better.

I absolutely hate sifting through the ads of TV shows, movies and other bro tier or SJW-like bullcrap on the PS4. It ruins the atmosphere and to me makes the console feel like a flee market for whatever. No theme, no meaning. It sucks.
I agree, minus the "bro" and "sjw" labels.

The big myth of the gaming industry is that it has grown. In reality, the industry has changed into something entirely different than it used to be in order to attract the broadest number of consumers. As a result, it's really difficult to get to the content you want to get to. PSN puts out what feels like a dozen new games every week. It's impossible to keep track of them all, let alone to know if they are something you would like to play.

If a game console came out and said, "we just do games. Game-ass games. No interactive movies. No cinematic experiences. Just games. We're not your media center. We're not your pc-replacement. We're not trying to sell you albums and movies. We just play games." I would buy it in a heartbeat.

It's like when Cartoon Network came out and was like "we just do cartoons. That's it. All day."
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Old 06-20-2017, 10:41 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by JazGalaxy View Post
If a game console came out and said, "we just do games. Game-ass games. No interactive movies. No cinematic experiences. Just games. We're not your media center. We're not your pc-replacement. We're not trying to sell you albums and movies. We just play games." I would buy it in a heartbeat.
Problem, Jaz, what counts as a game to some doesn't count as a game to others (we've had this conversation before). Apparently they need a personalized curator and maybe that's their angle. Steam's suggestions are shit, maybe handpicked is the way to go.
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Old 06-20-2017, 12:18 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by JazGalaxy View Post
If a game console came out and said, "we just do games. Game-ass games. No interactive movies. No cinematic experiences. Just games. We're not your media center. We're not your pc-replacement. We're not trying to sell you albums and movies. We just play games." I would buy it in a heartbeat.

It's like when Cartoon Network came out and was like "we just do cartoons. That's it. All day."
Acclaimed classics such as Day of the Tentacle and Full Throttle aren't much more than interactive movies. The same could be said with any JRPG, for the most part; they've always provided something along the lines of "cinematic experiences". We've had these sorts of experiences for a couple decades, truth be told. You've got a fairly narrow scope of what counts as a "game", it would seem. What counts as a game for you might be wildly different than what counts as a game for someone else.

Also, there is a console out there, doing what you're saying you'd buy in a heartbeat. It's called the Switch. It just does games (and maybe Netflix later).
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Old Yesterday, 12:06 AM   #24
JazGalaxy
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You've got a fairly narrow scope of what counts as a "game", it would seem. What counts as a game for you might be wildly different than what counts as a game for someone else
And that is exactly the problem. Answer me what benefit a word has when it's definition is completely dependant on the whims of the person hearing it?

You claim I have a narrow scope of what counts as a game and then say a game can be anything. That's basically saying we should all remain willfully stupid about defining what constitutes a game. I see no purpose in that. If you want to own the word "game" and make it mean anything anyone wants up to and including a turkey sandwich, fine. But a word still needs to exist to define the pass time that relies on organized rules around which competition takes place. We can call that whatever you want. But there is a Cadre of people who want that and nothing else. It's not narrow minded to want what you like and not want what you don't like.

It's like going to a restauraunt where they make an amazing merinated chicken breast that you love to get. You walk in one day and they inform you that they no longer sell the chicken on its own, but now it's diced up and made into various casseroles. You don't like or want the cassariles. You want the chicken. But instead of selling you just the chicken you want, they refuse to let you have that and then call you narrow minded for not being happy about their extensive selection of cassaroles and all the new customers they are bringing in.
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Old Yesterday, 12:45 AM   #25
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And that is exactly the problem. Answer me what benefit a word has when it's definition is completely dependant on the whims of the person hearing it?

You claim I have a narrow scope of what counts as a game and then say a game can be anything. That's basically saying we should all remain willfully stupid about defining what constitutes a game.
You aren't doing yourself any favors. If you want to split hairs the people who were content with Go, Chess, Checkers, Dominoes and so on would like to have a word with you about applying the word to anything electronic and sullying it with playing against anything less than simulated human or better AI. Heathen.

You seem to think there is purity in something that *you* define as a game that is tarnished when other elements, particularly any sort of narrative, is introduced. Frankly, you have yet to really define "game" yourself though you have made it clear you don't have a great appreciation for games with depth based on narrative and storytelling. The further something strays from pure mechanics the less of a "game" it becomes to you.

That boat has sailed since even the best mechanics games these days have stories. Case in point: the Metroidvania style "Ori and the Blind Forest" which is amazing in narrative and mechanics.

Your restaurant analogy sucks. Your menu hasn't changed that dramatically despite a bit of tarnish from some story, instead a spicy new Indian place opened up close by and siphons off customers looking for something new, a change of pace. Chicken Tikka Masala: Chicken Evolved, if you will.
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Old Yesterday, 01:53 AM   #26
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You aren't doing yourself any favors. If you want to split hairs the people who were content with Go, Chess, Checkers, Dominoes and so on would like to have a word with you about applying the word to anything electronic and sullying it with playing against anything less than simulated human or better AI. Heathen.

You seem to think there is purity in something that *you* define as a game that is tarnished when other elements, particularly any sort of narrative, is introduced. Frankly, you have yet to really define "game" yourself though you have made it clear you don't have a great appreciation for games with depth based on narrative and storytelling. The further something strays from pure mechanics the less of a "game" it becomes to you.
I agree with vallor, especially since the gamiest of games these days are what I like to call "time-wasters": "Candy Crush Saga" would be a prime example for this (or any of its competitors, if you don't want a game with pay-to-win elements). There's nothing BUT the game - no story, no characters, no real progression... nothing to distract you from the game.

Now, maybe we're talking at cross-purposes here (and you really value "Tetris", "Bejeweled" and their million descendants above everything else), but I for one welcome narrative, story and progression in my games. I just said something similar in the "Halo 6" thread, but I feel that having a clearly defined end with a win condition gives the game (and me playing it) purpose.

To me, that's the definition of a game: Interactive entertainment with a clear win/fail condition. It's a very wide definition that includes everything from the aforementioned time-wasters to JRPGs. It excludes most forms of gambling, and I'm still not decided on walking simulators, but everything else that requires player input should be considered a game, no matter how big or small the challenge is.

But really, we don't need to discuss this here. I'm willing to bet money that this new Atari "console" will be a VCS Mini of sorts, or a PC-based Ouya 2 at best.
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Old Yesterday, 08:42 AM   #27
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You seem to think there is purity in something that *you* define as a game that is tarnished when other elements, particularly any sort of narrative, is introduced.

I don't define anything. The language itself does.

"a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck."

What I want out of a console that only plays games is actually not all that different from the Rules X-Box had placed on third party developers submitting games to Xbox Live Arcade, originally. If you wanted to submit something, it had to be a game and there were rules that dictated how it had to play.
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Old Yesterday, 11:30 AM   #28
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I don't define anything. The language itself does.

"a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck."

What I want out of a console that only plays games is actually not all that different from the Rules X-Box had placed on third party developers submitting games to Xbox Live Arcade, originally. If you wanted to submit something, it had to be a game and there were rules that dictated how it had to play.
Right, and "play is an activity for enjoyment and recreation rather than a serious or practical purpose." Therefore a game is play done for enjoyment which doesn't necessary require skill, strength, competition, or luck.

The operative word in the "Xbox Live Arcade" phrase is "Arcade" which only lived with the name a year before it rebranded as simply Xbox Live. Arcade games still exist but like I said even they have been touched by the evil narrative. I guess you'll have to stick with MAME or indie and kickstarter nitche games like Mighty #9 that release on the very rare occasion.

You're just being pedantic because your panties are in a bunch and people aren't making enough of the type of things you call games. Believe me, I feel ya. I haven't seen a good iteration of a Sins of a Solar Empire type game with decent co-op for years and there isn't a new one in sight.

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Old Yesterday, 12:40 PM   #29
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I don't define anything. The language itself does.
FFS..."language" doesn't "define" anything at all on its own, people and cultures do that as they utilize language and give it meaning. There is no anthropomorphic "language" entity scribbling in a dictionary somewhere.
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Old Yesterday, 01:19 PM   #30
JazGalaxy
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Right, and "play is an activity for enjoyment and recreation rather than a serious or practical purpose." Therefore a game is play done for enjoyment which doesn't necessary require skill, strength, competition, or luck.

The operative word in the "Xbox Live Arcade" phrase is "Arcade" which only lived with the name a year before it rebranded as simply Xbox Live. Arcade games still exist but like I said even they have been touched by the evil narrative. I guess you'll have to stick with MAME or indie and kickstarter nitche games like Mighty #9 that release on the very rare occasion.

You're just being pedantic because your panties are in a bunch and people aren't making enough of the type of things you call games. Believe me, I feel ya. I haven't seen a good iteration of a Sins of a Solar Empire type game with decent co-op for years and there isn't a new one in sight.
What?

Why are you defining "game" by the definition of "game" game and play are two different words that mean two entirely different things. That is why you "play" a "game".

And no, I'm not being overly pedantic. The whole conversation is about describing and catAgorizing things. Thusly I'm being exactly as pedantic as necessary.

Our difference is that I don't buy into the post modernist crapola that says it's somehow high minded to believe that things should be " whatever you want it to be".
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Old Yesterday, 01:21 PM   #31
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Shoot. That's supposed to read, " why are you defining " game" by the definition of " play"?
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Old Yesterday, 01:32 PM   #32
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Our difference is that I don't buy into the post modernist crapola that says it's somehow high minded to believe that things should be " whatever you want it to be".
You're simply refusing to grasp the concept that video games cover a rather wide variety of genres and types. It's not a matter of them being "whatever we want them to be".
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Old Yesterday, 03:53 PM   #33
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Problem, Jaz, what counts as a game to some doesn't count as a game to others (we've had this conversation before). Apparently they need a personalized curator and maybe that's their angle. Steam's suggestions are shit, maybe handpicked is the way to go.
An interactive movie is not a game. They even have a name for it. < See?

You might the mexican flea market on the poor side of town feel the PS store has. But i think its shit. Hey! Shove more shit down my throat! Maybe ill buy.
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Old Yesterday, 03:54 PM   #34
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You're simply refusing to grasp the concept that video games cover a rather wide variety of genres and types. It's not a matter of them being "whatever we want them to be".
So movies are video games now? Because thats what we were talking about.
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Old Yesterday, 08:21 PM   #35
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Shoot. That's supposed to read, " why are you defining " game" by the definition of " play"?
You aren't paying attention or are being willfully obtuse. A "game" by definition is " form of *play* or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck" Note the "form of play" part which means a game can be a relaxing activity done for enjoyment and the "especially" part which means often, but not always, a competitive and/or skill based activity.

Since "Playing a game" doesn't preclude having narrative or depth of lore the very definition you provided it is quite easy to most modern games. This allows including adventure, RPGs, MMOs, and other genres to easily fall into the "game-ass games" bucket.

By your standards Cowboys and Indians (LARPING for kids), red rover (based initially on the Plague, and other playground games also don't fit in your box but that is clearly a game children Play. Adults have their own game they play that don't necessarily count as competitive, but let's keep the tread clean!

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Old Today, 12:06 PM   #36
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So movies are video games now? Because thats what we were talking about.
Clearly, there's a difference.

A game is a game and a movie is a movie...but, the confusion occurs when you blend the two together

What counts as an "interactive movie"? What needs to happen for it to cross over from "interactive movie" to "game? Games like Full Throttle feature puzzle-based gameplay...but, it's really just a means to progress to the next story sequence; the story is told through everything outside of the puzzle sequences. Even modern JRPGs like Persona 5 feature lengthy portions where you're essentially either hitting a button to progress through dialogue, or simply just watching dialogue. There are also games like Metal Gear Solid 4, which had "traditional" gameplay segments coupled with 71 minutes worth of cutscenes, one of which is just shy of a half hour in length; it has nearly a feature film's worth of cutscenes.

Not everything neatly fits into a categorical box and what counts as a "game" to one may not meet someone else's criteria.
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