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Old 09-07-2013, 09:30 AM   #21
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There is a lot of skepticism about Star Citizen from inside the industry because of Chris Robert's history.

I am a huge space game fan, the moment he shows any of what he's been talking about I'll bite. X: Rebirth will tide me over in the meantime.
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Old 09-07-2013, 10:04 AM   #22
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There is a lot of skepticism about Star Citizen from inside the industry because of Chris Robert's history.

I am a huge space game fan, the moment he shows any of what he's been talking about I'll bite. X: Rebirth will tide me over in the meantime.
Sometimes it pays to be ignorant and happy.
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Old 09-07-2013, 10:43 AM   #23
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I've quit funding kickstarter games after the lengthy history of so many of them being massively delayed, coming back and saying "we need 10x as much money as we thought" or just plain not delivering on what was promised.

I'm perfectly happy to buy retail when they're released. If they're released. And I can see if they're any good.
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Old 09-07-2013, 09:58 PM   #24
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If you enjoy the genre at all and choose not to support this venture you're crazy.
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Old 09-07-2013, 10:01 PM   #25
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If you enjoy the genre at all and choose not to support this venture you're crazy.
Do they have a demo out at all?
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Old 09-07-2013, 10:24 PM   #26
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I've quit funding kickstarter games after the lengthy history of so many of them being massively delayed, coming back and saying "we need 10x as much money as we thought" or just plain not delivering on what was promised.
Other than Broken Age, what Kickstarter game did this?

Also, you should keep in mind that Broken Age is actually being designed as a much bigger game based on the high Kickstarter funding and they are going to release the first half on Steam Early Access so that Kickstarter supporters don't have to wait 2 years for a game that they gave them a 2-year budget to make.

I know the isometric RPGs are taking forever because they are using small teams despite getting a lot of funding, but I didn't fund those (love RPGs, but isometric going away once better PCs were made was great IMO). Also, I think Shadowrun Returns skimped heavily on sound and visuals, but those aren't the things you are complaining about really.
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Old 09-07-2013, 11:10 PM   #27
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Other than Broken Age, what Kickstarter game did this?
To clarify before I respond, I did not mean to imply kickstarters are doing ALL of those at once, I meant that one of those three descriptors fits an unacceptable number of projects (to me): late, underfunded, or scope changed.

http://money.cnn.com/interactive/tec...ects-shipping/ Not all Games, but a starting point. You'll actually find a few games or gaming technologies down in the lowest category.

http://www.complex.com/video-games/2...-year/#gallery Here's some more that are successes alongside failures, although some of the failures are to receive funding, not backers that disappear or deliver late, or change scope.

Maybe my perspective is skewed because there's so many kickstarter failures in the media, that I'm seeing them as game kickstarters, but either way, I don't see a reason to back many kickstarters because the risks don't match up with the rewards. I'm happy games get backed. I'm not happy when I'm the backer and I don't get what I was promised, when. So, I've opted to wait until a product is ready for me to buy, as opposed to a promise for me to maybe-buy.
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Old 09-07-2013, 11:47 PM   #28
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Do they have a demo out at all?
Just the Hangar Module which is sort of a demo. Only to view the ships in your hangar but you can also export them into CryEngine 3 Sandbox and mess around with the models. There will be a flight module coming later. One important aspect of this game is the intricate and "realistic" design of the ships.


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Old 09-08-2013, 01:25 AM   #29
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So, I've opted to wait until a product is ready for me to buy, as opposed to a promise for me to maybe-buy.
Not a bad idea and one of the reasons I've all but stopped backing projects. For the most part they end up down one of the roads you mentioned or they (strictly IMO) betray their backers by selling the same game on Steam for around the same price.

Why take the risk of being a backer when you can have fools do while you reap the best both worlds in the next seasonal Steam sale? If something funds, it was meant to be if not it was probably shit anyway.
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Old 09-08-2013, 09:22 AM   #30
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I backed a while ago, just for the notion of having my own solo server, but so far I'm undecided whether this will be the shit, or the daikatana. Feels to me they're spending too much time bragging about fundraising and traveling all over the world (on our dime) promoting this.
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Old 09-08-2013, 09:26 AM   #31
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I backed a while ago, just for the notion of having my own solo server, but so far I'm undecided whether this will be the shit, or the daikatana. Feels to me they're spending too much time bragging about fundraising and traveling all over the world (on our dime) promoting this.
Sure some hesitation is understandable but during their travels they also listen to fan input and have very personal displays of what they're doing while being transparent. I guess you would prefer blatant lies, silence and no innovation as well as no risk?
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:10 PM   #32
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I've quit funding kickstarter games after the lengthy history of so many of them being massively delayed, coming back and saying "we need 10x as much money as we thought" or just plain not delivering on what was promised.

I'm perfectly happy to buy retail when they're released. If they're released. And I can see if they're any good.
So many of them? What sort of kickstarters have you been funding?

And a few delays here and there are just fine, and so far have just resulted in better games for me. I'm not on some sort of schedule
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Old 09-09-2013, 08:10 AM   #33
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In my view the entire kickstarter premise borders on a scam. It's quite ingenious, separating people from their money for the promise of a 'potential' bag of 'possible' goodies and 'hoped for' features in a game not yet released.

There's no product purchase I would fund in this way. It's worse than layaway (which is terrible; never will use that either), because you don't get to see the final product AND you have to pay all of it up front.

Genius. Pure genius. More power to them! See you (developers/publishers) when your game is in the bargain bin, patched to work properly, with all of its flaws and qualities digested and disseminated to the public for an informed purchase decision, and much/all of its content 'in the wild' at last.
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Old 09-09-2013, 10:35 AM   #34
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It's worse than layaway (which is terrible; never will use that either), because you don't get to see the final product AND you have to pay all of it up front.
Layaway is the only reason my family and many others were able to get gifts at Christmas when I was growing up. Sure, the same could be accomplished by simply having your own savings plan but some people don't have that self control but I'm glad this forced savings plan exists for those people who recognize their limitations and especially since there is small or no charge for the service.

Like a properly leveraged Layaway system properly run Kickstarters can be a great service to people.
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Old 09-09-2013, 11:33 AM   #35
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Like a properly leveraged Layaway system properly run Kickstarters can be a great service to people.
A great service for those getting the money, and perhaps on occasion for those whose 'hoped-for' bonuses and features make it into the final product.

However, in my view it's nearly a scam. You don't know what you're getting (terms/conditions can change at any time!) and you pay up front. At least with layaway you know exactly what you're getting prior to parting with your money.

To each is own; the wonders of capitalism (which I like!)!!
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Old 09-09-2013, 12:10 PM   #36
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In my view the entire kickstarter premise borders on a scam. It's quite ingenious, separating people from their money for the promise of a 'potential' bag of 'possible' goodies and 'hoped for' features in a game not yet released.

There's no product purchase I would fund in this way. It's worse than layaway (which is terrible; never will use that either), because you don't get to see the final product AND you have to pay all of it up front.

Genius. Pure genius. More power to them! See you (developers/publishers) when your game is in the bargain bin, patched to work properly, with all of its flaws and qualities digested and disseminated to the public for an informed purchase decision, and much/all of its content 'in the wild' at last.
You do not seem to understand the definition of a scam. None of what you presented is hidden from Kickstarter users. The lure of KS is the ability to support a product that otherwise would not be made by paying for its expenses on the front end. Stretch goals are designed to entice funds once the goal has been met, effectively allowing people to continue support if they want an expanded product from the original goal.
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Old 09-09-2013, 12:12 PM   #37
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A great service for those getting the money, and perhaps on occasion for those whose 'hoped-for' bonuses and features make it into the final product.

However, in my view it's nearly a scam. You don't know what you're getting (terms/conditions can change at any time!) and you pay up front. At least with layaway you know exactly what you're getting prior to parting with your money.

To each is own; the wonders of capitalism (which I like!)!!
Still a good service. If people are willing to put so much money up on a game of Y type or from Developer X knowing the high probability of scamage... maybe publishers will take note.

Sucks that people may lose their money or the extras are disappointing, but it does get the professionals interested because they follow that sort of money.
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Old 09-09-2013, 12:18 PM   #38
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You do not seem to understand the definition of a scam. None of what you presented is hidden from Kickstarter users.
I'm sure they clearly and repeatedly, in LARGE FONT (not hidden in 6-pt font in the middle of a million-word EULA/ToS agreement) state that any and all conditions could change. I'm sure. Additionally, that's not the core of what makes this a scam, that's just the frosting. It's the treatment of those who provide the capital (see later in my post).

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The lure of KS is the ability to support a product that otherwise would not be made
You have the ability to see alternate timelines and realities? You don't know if these titles would not otherwise be made. Some, maybe not...some, perhaps so, through traditional funding mechanisms. You can't prove such an assertion, because it's unprovable by its nature. Once the title has been funded, you cannot possibly prove it would not have been created without such funding.

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by paying for its expenses on the front end.
THAT is the scam. People who do that are supposed to be INVESTORS, not CONSUMERS. You provide 'venture/investment' capital, you should get back capital (dividends, stock, etc), not an end-user-product.
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Stretch goals are designed to entice funds once the goal has been met, effectively allowing people to continue support if they want an expanded product from the original goal.
Yes, intended to treat investors like consumers.

A scam.
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Old 09-09-2013, 01:43 PM   #39
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You aren't an investor by pledging at Kickstarter. You are donating, not investing. Slightly different definition. Since KS doesn't allow profit sharing, this isn't a security and, likewise, the rewards are posted at time of pledge. No matter how lame, you are at best buying something, in this case a reward and, at worst, buying the promise of something, in this case a reward that may never come to be. None of this is a secret. Just as the worthiness of giving money to, say, a Church. Do you think you're supposed to own a sliver of God? Bad news ... God doesn't exist, he's just broke.

I mean, you know this stuff--and you're not smart. Heck, you're half a primate and yet you know exactly what risks and benefits there are to crowdfunding. So who do you think is being fooled? Are there insect donors you are trying to protect? Fuck the insects! They can't even make Pop Tarts.

It's not a scam unless there is trickery involved, by definition. If people want to give away there money rather than wait for a product's retail release, let them. It makes them feel good and they get exactly what they pay for when they do it. Now, if you were to argue that expanding a project beyond its original goals AND failing to utilize the funds earned to expand your systems and team to actually achieve them has some ethical concerns I would be right there with you, directing your mass of protolizard-brained friends what the little man in the crossing lights represents. Arguing against KS or crowdfunding as a whole, however, is foolhardy.
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Old 09-09-2013, 01:50 PM   #40
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You aren't an investor by pledging at Kickstarter. You are donating, not investing.
You're investing in the creation of something for the privilege of obtaining the created product. That's STUPID for an investor, which is what you are if you provide the money to produce something, because it makes you a consumer who provides the capital to make a product for nothing but...the product. No ROI. Zip.

Also, donations are for charities, not profit-seeking businesses. I'm not donating a dime to any company. Ever.
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