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Old 03-22-2018, 05:13 AM   #1341
vallor
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Originally Posted by Eats View Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.4a1891f479e4

There are 2 systems. Kris Kobach has the crosscheck system and is desperate to find voter fraud because it is how he wants to make his political star go up.

Despite all of this motivation to find voter fraud he has barely found any cases.

http://www.kansascity.com/news/polit...148434369.html

There is also the ERIC system which already has 23 states in it.

http://www.ericstates.org/
Crosscheck is a placebo and has a minimum amount of information; no wonder it hasn't caught anything. ERIC shows more promise as far as maintaining accurate voter records to ensure people aren't voting twice but without full cooperation country wide it is ineffective.

Besides, neither of these systems actually address the supposedly largest problem of invalid voters voting at all: i.e. illegals voting, "dead" people voting, voting with incorrect or stolen IDs.

Again, one side says there's no problem but can't say so beyond the shadow of a doubt enough to shut up the other side and vice versa.
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Old 03-22-2018, 08:44 AM   #1342
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Or you just require voter ID and the issue goes away totally.
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Old 03-22-2018, 10:04 AM   #1343
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Again, one side says there's no problem but can't say so beyond the shadow of a doubt enough to shut up the other side and vice versa.
I'm jumping in to the middle of things again, but as I have said before, I have over a decade of experience working the polls for every election from municipal primaries to general presidential, from paper registration and ballots through electronic, vote by mail. provisional, etc.

I have asked this before, the last time it came up, and I will ask it again now, since nobody offered any answer before. Forgetting for a minute whether voter fraud is or isn't widespread, my question is how would it be accomplished. What is the specific mechanism by which a concerned or motivated party could take advantage of voting technology and procedures to fraudulently cast votes to influence the outcome of an election?
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Old 03-22-2018, 10:10 AM   #1344
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I'm jumping in to the middle of things again, but as I have said before, I have over a decade of experience working the polls for every election from municipal primaries to general presidential, from paper registration and ballots through electronic, vote by mail. provisional, etc.

I have asked this before, the last time it came up, and I will ask it again now, since nobody offered any answer before. Forgetting for a minute whether voter fraud is or isn't widespread, my question is how would it be accomplished. What is the specific mechanism by which a concerned or motivated party could take advantage of voting technology and procedures to fraudulently cast votes to influence the outcome of an election?
Ask Gorge Soros and his voting machines. If you really need to ask this question there's not much hope for you.
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Old 03-22-2018, 10:22 AM   #1345
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Uh, many on the Left remain quite fond of Hillary and even those not fond of her on the Left appear to believe she's going to be running again in 2020. She's not done with politics, as she continues to be involved in them, as the media continues to prove.

Just for the record, I definitely hope she does not run again and I desperately wish she would completely bow out of the spotlight for 4 years or so. Every time she shows up she energizes Trump's base and does nothing for the left.
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Old 03-22-2018, 11:16 AM   #1346
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Just for the record, I definitely hope she does not run again and I desperately wish she would completely bow out of the spotlight for 4 years or so. Every time she shows up she energizes Trump's base and does nothing for the left.
Let's be real, it'll be hillary again, and if not it'll be fauxohauntis Warren, either way you likely still lose.
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Old 03-22-2018, 01:56 PM   #1347
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Or you just require voter ID and the issue goes away totally.
ID requirements are racist!

* Except for getting on a plane.
* Or driving a car.
* Or taking out a loan.
* Or cashing a check.
* Or getting a credit card.
* Or using a credit card.
* Or renting a car.
* Or ∞, et al, etc., WTFBBQ!

lol!
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Giving people more of their own money...WHY WOULD YOU DO THIS? :D
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Old 03-22-2018, 03:23 PM   #1348
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ID requirements are racist!

* Except for getting on a plane.
* Or driving a car.
* Or taking out a loan.
* Or cashing a check.
* Or getting a credit card.
* Or using a credit card.
* Or renting a car.
* Or ∞, et al, etc., WTFBBQ!

lol!
How dare you! Credit cards are racist! Just like picture ID!
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Old 03-22-2018, 03:39 PM   #1349
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In other liberal loony news, all the crying over Cambridge Analytica using data from FB when FB offered all that data to the democrats to..wait for it.. use for political gain. More do as we say not as we do from the authoritarian party of communists.

http://thegatewaypundit.com/2018/03/...-use-it-video/

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment...gn-did-it.html
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Old 03-22-2018, 06:26 PM   #1350
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Old 03-22-2018, 06:30 PM   #1351
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What is the specific mechanism by which a concerned or motivated party could take advantage of voting technology and procedures to fraudulently cast votes to influence the outcome of an election?
I'm not sure that is the right question to ask. Technology at the point of casting the vote is a different problem than ensuring the person actually casting the vote is legit.
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Old 03-22-2018, 08:03 PM   #1352
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I'm not sure that is the right question to ask. Technology at the point of casting the vote is a different problem than ensuring the person actually casting the vote is legit.
Ummm. If there is no method to cast fraudulent votes, then the question of voter identity is irrelevant. But so what if you think it is the wrong question or a different problem. Are we suddenly supposed to only be curious about just one aspect of something for some reason?

Let me restate this, I have managed polling locations for every election in my county for over a decade, checking ids, getting signatures, registering voters, doing party affiliations, handling mail ballots, etc. For each election we have trainings on election law, voting procedures etc. So, even if this doesn't seem the crux of the issue, I have been trying to figure it out and I can't see it. Part of this has to do with vast discrepancies in election protocols around the country. I'm only really familiar with the rules I enforce. But, from my perspective, this is an extremely relevant question even if it isn't the one others are focused on.
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Old 03-22-2018, 09:13 PM   #1353
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Ummm. If there is no method to cast fraudulent votes, then the question of voter identity is irrelevant. But so what if you think it is the wrong question or a different problem. Are we suddenly supposed to only be curious about just one aspect of something for some reason?

Let me restate this, I have managed polling locations for every election in my county for over a decade, checking ids, getting signatures, registering voters, doing party affiliations, handling mail ballots, etc. For each election we have trainings on election law, voting procedures etc. So, even if this doesn't seem the crux of the issue, I have been trying to figure it out and I can't see it. Part of this has to do with vast discrepancies in election protocols around the country. I'm only really familiar with the rules I enforce. But, from my perspective, this is an extremely relevant question even if it isn't the one others are focused on.
If someone isn't eligible to vote the machine doesn't matter, they shouldn't be voting. If they're dead they really shouldn't be voting. You're trying to deflect from the core issue. And if it's a Soros machine it may not matter then either.
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Old 03-22-2018, 11:41 PM   #1354
vallor
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Ummm. If there is no method to cast fraudulent votes, then the question of voter identity is irrelevant. But so what if you think it is the wrong question or a different problem. Are we suddenly supposed to only be curious about just one aspect of something for some reason?
Three things:

1) If the input is flawed the output doesn't matter.
In this specific example I am suggesting that the parties cannot and will not, for whatever reason, agree to modify the structure of the input.

One side calls it racist and/or discriminatory. Therefore until the input into the system can be validated through a more reliable method the other side will therefore not concede they *may* have heavily inflated the impact of voter fraud. If the input is questioned the output will always be in question.

Once the input question has been answered we can take the next step to ensuring the security of the next step of the voting path.

2) As you mention, the methodology of verification may be inconsistent across cities, counties, and states. When I went to vote I didn't have to do anything in California. No verification steps at the poling location at all. White privilege?

At the very least it seems like these should be universally "tough" however with no standardization who knows.

3) There is no standard voter roll audit system.
ERIC seems like a good start but as an opt-in instead of an opt-out it will be incomplete, also it doesn't seem like there is much oversight so we don't really know how effective it is. Seems like there is something there worth investigating and maybe investing in.
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Old 03-23-2018, 07:00 AM   #1355
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Or you just require voter ID and the issue goes away totally.
This keeps coming up and I still have no idea what it's about. Why would anyone be against voter ID and why is it racist? Paying like 50 euros every 10 years for a passport doesn't seem like a problem for anyone other that the absolute poorest of the poor. It certainly doesn't seem to have anything to do with race.
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Old 03-23-2018, 07:36 AM   #1356
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This keeps coming up and I still have no idea what it's about. Why would anyone be against voter ID and why is it racist? Paying like 50 euros every 10 years for a passport doesn't seem like a problem for anyone other that the absolute poorest of the poor. It certainly doesn't seem to have anything to do with race.
People say that it's racist because apparently poor minorities would be less likely to have this ID. Why? I don't know. I can only guess it's because the people supposedly fighting for poor minorities assume that they are too dumb to get the ID.
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Old 03-23-2018, 08:03 AM   #1357
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People say that it's racist because apparently poor minorities would be less likely to have this ID. Why? I don't know. I can only guess it's because the people supposedly fighting for poor minorities assume that they are too dumb to get the ID.
This all just seems so stupid.

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2) As you mention, the methodology of verification may be inconsistent across cities, counties, and states. When I went to vote I didn't have to do anything in California. No verification steps at the poling location at all. White privilege?

At the very least it seems like these should be universally "tough" however with no standardization who knows.
As does this. How the hell can you expect to have fair elections if you take no steps to ensure that?
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Old 03-23-2018, 09:13 AM   #1358
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Three things:

1) If the input is flawed the output doesn't matter.
In this specific example I am suggesting that the parties cannot and will not, for whatever reason, agree to modify the structure of the input.
My point is that I am aware of current flaws in the rolls, but if there is no way to systematically take advantage of those flaws in order to affect the outcome of an election, then it does not amount to much.

Having said that, I can not understand why several of these issues can not be addressed and eliminated as problems. When people die, that should go to a national database, move across precinct, (parrrish, you LA fuckers) county, or state lines, same thing. Felony conviction, same thing. I don't see this as a partisan issue, but I am 100% for optimizing the rolls.

I may have mentioned that I'm in a voter ID state. I think 14 years now. We can accept almost 20 different forms of ID, and we can accept an almost unlimited array of documents, including electronic, to verify address. I have seen people come in to vote without ID and guess what, they still get to vote!!! They vote provisionally and the provisional ballot is clearly marked "NO ID". They have 5 days to bring proof of ID to the elections office and if not, their ballot is thrown out. So, yes, we do require ID, but we also bend over backwards to make it so that this does not constitute any kind of burden on anyone wishing to vote.

Let's say, just for argument, that I could show you conclusively that the ID requirement does actually suppress votes in a significant partisan manner. Well, that sucks. The first time. After that, you have a full year to go get some kind of fucking ID if you want to vote. Yes, elderly, homebound, suspicious people, some minorities may all tend to vote democratic and may all tend to be less likely to have some kind of ID. But it is a very, very low bar to ensure election fairness and security, and I don't think it is too much to ask any more than being registered properly, being an informed, active citizen, and getting your ass to the polls on election day.

Or, option B. Vote by mail. Every registered voter is sent a paper ballot. No ID required, but must sign affidavit for vote to count. Saves money, increases voter participation, all signatures are checked against public documents. So, as long as you have a signature on file with the elections office from some document at some point in your life- even completely non-election related, no ID and you still can vote. This is a very, very low bar to ask citizens to hurdle for participating in an election.
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Old 03-23-2018, 10:26 AM   #1359
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How the hell can you expect to have fair elections if you take no steps to ensure that?
Well there's the rub.
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Old 03-23-2018, 11:19 AM   #1360
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