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Old 11-18-2017, 12:16 AM   #41
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Goddamn, I love this site. You spend the entire thread arguing against increased govenment intervention, then make one comment for it and immediatedly get pilled on top of for the worst crime possible around here, being a progressive. It's hillarious.

Anyway, it's clear we're not going to agree on this, but there is one more thing I was wondering about that you hadn't answered yet: Real world, not digital, collectible card games like pokemon or magic the gathering, that are often sold in packs of random cards. These days most of them are sold in semi random packs I think, like your garaunteed to get say 10 common cards, 3 mediums and 1 rare in each pack, but completely random within the rarities. The actually value of the cards is still up in the air though, thanks to the meta of the game at any given moment certain commons or rare may be worth much more or less because of their desirability. One of the stores I play warhammer at buys and sells these kind of cards. I've literally seen whales buying like 10 packs at a time, opening and sorting through them, picking a handful of cards to keep, and then immediatedly selling the vast majority for a fraction of the price they just paid minutes ago back to the guy that just sold them, and then rinse and repeat this for hours on end. Does that count as gambling? I mean you can just see the dopamine hit each time they tear open a pack, followed by the inevitable dissapointment, much like watching people pulling those levers on the slot machines.
My understanding is that at least some of the companies that sell baseball cards try to get around it with the sweepstakes exemption, which is also what mcdonalds uses with the monopoly game. I don't really think that argument is great, but at the same time I don't personally think it is gambling unless you could prove that 70%+ of users are actually reselling their magic cards.

The thing is lots of gameplay elements in games simulate a skinner box to get that dopamine hit. I don't really think that by itself is gambling. Even if you are paying money to play a skinner box that isn't gambling either. Its really just entertainment until people think they are going to win money.

What you are talking about in my opinion is getting into the business of regulating psychological addictions, but without a ton of specificity. Gambling is very specific because it has a lot of elements and these card game examples really barely meet the standard, but in a lot of states they actually do look at things like the resale rate, or how the actual customers are behaving, to decide if it is actually gambling.

People were addicted to World of Warcraft and it fucked up their lives, but that doesn't mean we should take away everyone's freedom.

I also don't like the underlying motives of this movement, which are similar to people yelling "think of the children" as they censor what they personally don't like for reasons that have nothing to do with children. Everyone in this movement is shamelessly abusing children as a foil because they don't personally like the mechanics of some AAA titles.

These specific examples of overwatch and the new star wars very clearly do not meet the standards of gambling.

I also generally do not think the government needs to come in and regulate things that are clearly personal decisions of the users unless it is causing real damage to society, but even then I am hesitant unless it is hurting innocent bystanders(like drunk driving).

Also Terran I think you specifically are a massive hypocrite on this issue and don't seem to have any real values or convictions except whatever the GOP decides is cool this week. I hear pedophiles are all the rage right now.
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Old 11-18-2017, 12:39 AM   #42
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Its really just entertainment until people think they are going to win money.
I disagree. Paying money to get a box with random items that might sometimes be things you want, but usually will be things that are worthless to you, is gambling.

The rest of your post is just slippery slope nonsense. Omg imagine if the government were to regulate gambling, soon all our freedoms will be gone, oh noes. I find it extremely ironic when americans do this, given the revelations that have come out over the past several years regarding their intelligence services.

Also, just to be clear, I don't actually have much of a stake in this "movement". I haven't bought EA games in years thanks to their business practices and even if I did, I have no interest in battlefront. My entire involvement so far has been these 6 or whatever posts here. Besides which, like I already said in my first post in this thread, nothing much is likely to come from this anyway. The law seems to be okay with it and while I might vote with my wallet, too many other people don't or just don't care.
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Old 11-18-2017, 12:45 AM   #43
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So if I buy a ticket to a movie and I don't like it should I get a refund? It is sometimes what I want but a lot of the time it isn't. What if I just don't like it very much?

Also that seems like gambling to me as much as loot boxes...
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Old 11-18-2017, 12:51 AM   #44
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It would be like lootboxes if instead of buying a ticket for a specific movie you instead bought a box inside of which is a ticket for a random movie. Buying a specific item is very different from buying a random one.
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Old 11-18-2017, 02:35 AM   #45
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I disagree. Paying money to get a box with random items that might sometimes be things you want, but usually will be things that are worthless to you, is gambling.

The rest of your post is just slippery slope nonsense. Omg imagine if the government were to regulate gambling, soon all our freedoms will be gone, oh noes. I find it extremely ironic when americans do this, given the revelations that have come out over the past several years regarding their intelligence services.

Also, just to be clear, I don't actually have much of a stake in this "movement". I haven't bought EA games in years thanks to their business practices and even if I did, I have no interest in battlefront. My entire involvement so far has been these 6 or whatever posts here. Besides which, like I already said in my first post in this thread, nothing much is likely to come from this anyway. The law seems to be okay with it and while I might vote with my wallet, too many other people don't or just don't care.
We essentially already "regulate" gambling. Hell every state encourages gambling with instant tickets and big jackpot games already.
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Old 11-18-2017, 05:11 AM   #46
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Fascism is hip according to the left, just look at BLM, Antifa, and CAIR.
All of those things are communist. Why? Because they all employ, or are an arm of Marxism to tear down the cultural cohesion which leads to class warfare, which leads to revolution, which leads to communism... Fascism is a reaction to Marxism and communism, nothing more. Why do neo cons always push this... muh BLM iz the real nazi meme? Please, for the love of god, git gud already....

I can sit here and make a case for crony capitalism =ing communism. Which is dam nearly as effective at consolidating power, they just don't use guns, sort of. Bundy ranch.
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Old 11-18-2017, 06:56 PM   #47
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All of those things are communist. Why? Because they all employ, or are an arm of Marxism to tear down the cultural cohesion which leads to class warfare, which leads to revolution, which leads to communism... Fascism is a reaction to Marxism and communism, nothing more. Why do neo cons always push this... muh BLM iz the real nazi meme? Please, for the love of god, git gud already....

I can sit here and make a case for crony capitalism =ing communism. Which is dam nearly as effective at consolidating power, they just don't use guns, sort of. Bundy ranch.
Facism, communism and authoritarian are really the same thing. We don't have a free market due to over regulation by the government on everything, that's why we no longer have much manufacturing in the US. It became too expensive due to government meddling.
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Old 11-19-2017, 04:47 AM   #48
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So if I buy a ticket to a movie and I don't like it should I get a refund? It is sometimes what I want but a lot of the time it isn't. What if I just don't like it very much?

Also that seems like gambling to me as much as loot boxes...
So continuing the same analogy what if you just bought a Movie Ticket with no idea which movie you were going to get.. that's a more comparable analogy than buying a ticket for a specific movie.

So next time you go to the cinema pay the desk clerk and ask them to just randomly pick you a movie including the ones you've already seen
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Old 11-19-2017, 07:17 AM   #49
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The Federalist: Paid Loot Crates are Bad for Gamers.

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This isnít over yet, because whether you can pay for it or not, the ability to play the game you were promised is still light years away. An analysis done by Star Wars Gaming found that it will take more than 4,500 hours of gameplay just to ďearnĒ all the base-game content. If EAís loot crate payment system had stayed in place you could shortcut that time by spending a whopping $2,100 to secure game elements that were advertised.

Both of those numbers are absurd. To put it in perspective, thatís more than 187 daysí worth of play time. In what world does that make sense? Who has 4,500 hours to play a video game? Even kids in school who spend all their spare time in their parentsí basements glued to their Playstations donít have that kind of time.
I agree. Used to be you could use a cheat code to jump into content if you didn't, or couldn't, spend the time necessary to get what you wanted within a game. Increasingly it's 'spend real money or play for a year or two' to unlock stuff. Stupid.
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Old 11-19-2017, 12:53 PM   #50
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So continuing the same analogy what if you just bought a Movie Ticket with no idea which movie you were going to get.. that's a more comparable analogy than buying a ticket for a specific movie.

So next time you go to the cinema pay the desk clerk and ask them to just randomly pick you a movie including the ones you've already seen
This just isn't pertinent to the discussion unless you are suggesting that poker isn't gambling. A mix of skill and RNG is still gambling, and buying a ticket to a movie or a game is definitely still going to supply an unknown amount of entertainment.
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Old 11-19-2017, 12:55 PM   #51
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The Federalist: Paid Loot Crates are Bad for Gamers.



I agree. Used to be you could use a cheat code to jump into content if you didn't, or couldn't, spend the time necessary to get what you wanted within a game. Increasingly it's 'spend real money or play for a year or two' to unlock stuff. Stupid.
See this is the kind of shit that gets to the honest root of the issue. You guys just don't like these game design decisions so now you want the gov't to regulate game design. This has nothing to do with children or gambling and using them as a foil to defend gov't censorship is fucked up.
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Old 11-19-2017, 12:59 PM   #52
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We don't have a free market due to over regulation by the government on everything, that's why we no longer have much manufacturing in the US. It became too expensive due to government meddling.
Idk, unless you think we should be paying americans like 10 cents a day I'm not sure gov't intervention was the main issue with manufacturing. In fact I would say it was lack of gov't intervention with free trade agreements and the lowered cost of international shipping due to technology that sunk domestic manufacturing.
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Old 11-19-2017, 02:05 PM   #53
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Idk, unless you think we should be paying americans like 10 cents a day I'm not sure gov't intervention was the main issue with manufacturing. In fact I would say it was lack of gov't intervention with free trade agreements and the lowered cost of international shipping due to technology that sunk domestic manufacturing.
Sure if they want to deflate current inflation rates. So that 10 cents is worth something. What you're stating here seems to be yet another reason why globalism is a terrible thing and why National Sovereignty is fucking awesome.

Fun little fact regarding inflation Ronald Reagan eliminated Inflation for 25 years,dropped from 35% down to less than 1% in only 3 months after only a few of his policies were implemented in 1983. Imagine what could of gotten accomplished if all of his policies were implemented. And those inflation numbers included Food and Fuel inflation.
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Old 11-19-2017, 02:36 PM   #54
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...so now you want the gov't to regulate game design.
No, no, no. Not at all. I've simply gotten on the progressive party boat; I now love and fully trust the government, like you guys do, and think it should expand ever further into private enterprise and independent individuals' decisions, and would love to see liberal game developers gathered in the warm embrace of the bureaucracy they so love and adore as well.

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This has nothing to do with children or gambling
It doesn't? I mean, I wouldn't want to see you guys shafted by big government to get a taste of the medicine you foist on the rest of society, would I? NAH!

Progressives are always thinking of "the children." That's why school choice vouchers cannot be allowed! And that's why I agree and think the government should stop loot crates.

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and using them as a foil to defend gov't censorship is fucked up
You mean the government shouldn't regulate speech? Progressives disagree. Watch your pronoun use in Commiefornia, lol.

Enjoy the warm embrace of fascist progressive gummit!
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Old 11-19-2017, 02:49 PM   #55
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This just isn't pertinent to the discussion unless you are suggesting that poker isn't gambling. A mix of skill and RNG is still gambling, and buying a ticket to a movie or a game is definitely still going to supply an unknown amount of entertainment.
Wow.. utter gibberish and since when do you get to decide what's pertinent

When you buy a Movie ticket you select which Movie you want to see.. if you apply loot box rules you don't even get a choice


Also don't see why Dice are getting a free pass, "we were only following orders".. however it's Dice staff that will pay the price as one things for certain not a single Exec will take any responsibility.
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Old 11-20-2017, 12:23 AM   #56
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Fun little fact regarding inflation Ronald Reagan eliminated Inflation for 25 years,dropped from 35% down to less than 1% in only 3 months after only a few of his policies were implemented in 1983.
Inflation has never been 35% in the last 100 years, and it was never less than 1% while Reagan was in office. In fact the only year it was less than 1% since Reagan took office was in 2008...

Also inflation was much lower for most of the 50s and 60s then it was after Reagan did whatever it is you think he did...

https://www.thebalance.com/u-s-infla...recast-3306093
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Old 11-20-2017, 12:32 AM   #57
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What you're stating here seems to be yet another reason why globalism is a terrible thing and why National Sovereignty is fucking awesome.
Protectionism can be great, but it depends. The question is did free trade overall help the US or hurt it. We lost manufacturing, but the cost of manufactured goods also went down. So we hurt the people in the US manufacturing industry, but by reducing the price of manufactured goods we helped every other person in the US who was not in the manufacturing industry.

You also have to consider how much revenue we derive from our own exports. Free Trade agreements usually cut both ways. We lost manufacturing but in exchange all of our other export based industries prospered. It is very possible that we gained more than we lost with our trade agreements.
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Old 11-20-2017, 12:40 AM   #58
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Wow.. utter gibberish and since when do you get to decide what's pertinent

When you buy a Movie ticket you select which Movie you want to see.. if you apply loot box rules you don't even get a choice
Because your argument doesn't make sense unless poker is not gambling.

You say lootboxes are gambling because they are like slot machines where you are gambling only on the entertainment value of the lootbox. So then buying a movie ticket or videogame, which is a mix of RNG and skill in terms of how much entertainment value you will get, is also gambling because it is just like poker.

The problem is almost everything in life is a mix of skill and RNG, so if the definition of gambling does not involve you potentially winning money, almost everything now qualifies as gambling.

The definition of gambling is specific because otherwise it would encompass most human activities.
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Old 11-20-2017, 12:45 AM   #59
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No, no, no. Not at all. I've simply gotten on the progressive party boat; I now love and fully trust the government, like you guys do, and think it should expand ever further into private enterprise and independent individuals' decisions, and would love to see liberal game developers gathered in the warm embrace of the bureaucracy they so love and adore as well.
Why are game developers all liberal in your mind? Why would you think that?

Also your general hypocrisy makes me sad. Do you stand for individual freedom or not?
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Old 11-20-2017, 01:04 AM   #60
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Inflation has never been 35% in the last 100 years, and it was never less than 1% while Reagan was in office. In fact the only year it was less than 1% since Reagan took office was in 2008...

Also inflation was much lower for most of the 50s and 60s then it was after Reagan did whatever it is you think he did...

https://www.thebalance.com/u-s-infla...recast-3306093
Yeah please link more articles by liberal idiots like Kimberly Arnadeo.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterfe.../#63c9fdf49ac9

"All of the above was accompanied by double digit interest rates, with the prime rate peaking at 21.5% in 1980. The poverty rate started increasing in 1978, eventually climbing by an astounding 33%"

"These economic policies amounted to the most successful economic experiment in world history. The Reagan recovery started in official records in November 1982, and lasted 92 months without a recession until July 1990, when the tax increases of the 1990 budget deal killed it. This set a new record for the longest peacetime expansion ever, the previous high in peacetime being 58 months."

"We call this period, 1982-2007, the twenty-five year boom--the greatest period of wealth creation in the history of the planet. In 1980, the net worth--assets minus liabilities--of all U.S. households and business ... was $25 trillion in todayís dollars. By 2007, ... net worth was just shy of $57 trillion. Adjusting for inflation, more wealth was created in America in the twenty-five year boom than in the previous two hundred years."

Come back when you have a fucking clue. Reagan was the greatest leader this country has had in the modern era and God damn if America could get another Ronald Reagan today we'd be golden. Instead we have a party in the democrats that every time a Republican is elected president the first thing they do is try and figure out how to impeach because they have ZERO respect for the votes of Americans. It's why they feel the need to keep importing illegals and are against voter ID.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/12/u...rman.html?_r=0

In fact Democrats first answer to everything is to try and impeach without due reason at a drop of a hat.

https://www.investors.com/politics/e...t-else-is-new/

Reps. Dennis Kucinich and Robert Wexler introduced 35 articles of impeachment against President George W. Bush in 2004 that centered on the Iraq War, Hurricane Katrina, global warming and the 2004 elections.

Yep you read that right, the democrats wanted to impeach Bush over global fucking warming of all things. You idiots are fucking mentally ill.
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