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Old 06-09-2019, 10:17 PM   #21
Inkabodcrane
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Originally Posted by Evil Avatar View Post
By the time 8K TV's are low enough price to be mainstream, we will be at least one more console generation down the road. I don't think there will be a lot of people still playing games on the Xbox Scarlett by then.

Wrong. They'll start entering the market strongly in 5 years. All it takes is a quick search to find many articles about 8k. All the major manufacturers are already making them. Samsung has a 65" for $3,300. I bought my first 65" 4k in 2016 for $2000, and today I bought one for $300. It's inevitable, and obvious.
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Old 06-10-2019, 12:47 AM   #22
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The train continues on the circular track. HD ready televisions (720p), 1080p, 3D, curved (oh how silly were they!), 4k, 4K HDR, HDR 10 and now... 8k.

At what point will the mass population just say, "Eh?"

"How can we sell them the same crap that they already have?"
"Double the res to 8K!"
"What about 5k?"
"Nah, doesn't sound epic enough! We're already selling them 4K televisions that aren't actually 4K!"
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Old 06-10-2019, 04:40 AM   #23
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I already kind of jumped off the train. My 1080P TVs look fine to me. I'm not upgrading until one of mine breaks and even then, it will be a grudging upgrade.
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Old 06-10-2019, 04:55 AM   #24
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8K is pure marketing and always will be for the next gen. these consoles will not render 60fps or possibly even 30 with ray tracing, etc at that res.

there is no mass consumer content in 8K either. most 4K movies are all 2K DI upscaled still today.

what i read in this announcement tells me we are having a convergence of sorts as this is pretty much what sony is releasing too. the differences in hardware and performance are further narrowing as to be meaningless. that sucks because competition is how we got here in the first place.
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Old 06-10-2019, 05:00 AM   #25
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My old eyes have a hard time telling the difference.



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Old 06-10-2019, 05:21 AM   #26
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4K looks pretty great to me.

I thought the conference was fun if anything. Kind of reminded me of conferences we used to see.
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Old 06-10-2019, 05:39 AM   #27
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If they keep the accessories/games compatible I see no problem with this pace of new consoles. It would let you skip a generation or two based on your budget/needs/wants. kinda like what I do on my pc.
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Old 06-10-2019, 05:47 AM   #28
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The timing is going to be interesting. Stadia will have a 1-year jump on the other game systems. I still see myself as having Stadia + PC + Xbox, but I will not be jumping on a new +$500 game system vs free all that quickly.

If we let history repeat itself - Xbox will fight Playstation and the winner will be Stadia. Just like HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray and then Netflix winning. (I still don't own a single Blu-Ray)
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Old 06-10-2019, 05:54 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by BeardedSonOfNel View Post
My old eyes have a hard time telling the difference.
I actually love this topic, because if you really care, there is so much to unpack. Now, I end up in conversations with people regularly that even show me those same two videos. Those videos make great points, but they are not a one size fits all end to the topic. The deeper you dig into this subject, the more you find that in the end, everyone's eyes are different. Everyone sees things with a bit more or less clarity and focus, and our brains do a lot of work to fill in any gaps we may be missing. Like an ai...except remove the a.

Now, an interesting thing about all this is that regardless of your specific vision, if you wear glasses (as I do) and many other variables, nothing changes the fact that higher resolutions are better images. A 4K tv is showing more pixels than a 720p tv. For anyone who has spent time with 4k, 1080p, etc, it is obvious which one has the best quality. All of these youtube debates go out of the window, you physically see that one is superior to the other. That may be because your eyes are focusing on one area of your vision, or the lighting is good, or your distance is better or worse, or any other thing. But in the end, the screen with the higher quality is better, it is just the other variables that effect your experience.


I don't always prefer to get in depth into topics, but..we all went from AM radio to FM. Then we went to black and white television, then color, all the while understanding that as technology got better, so would our entertainment. Then we got VHS, Laserdisc, DVD, 480p. 720p, bluray, 1080p, and finally 4k. Are we saying that we're done? No one in the history of the human race will ever find a better display than 1080p or 4k? Science and technology has hit a dead end?

Nah, I doubt it. Technology will continue to get better our whole lives until we're gone. I for one won't put my stake in the ground now and say we've done all that can be done, and stop here. I will keep going as long as I can. Hopefully until they can clone my brain and put it into a computer or robot or something.
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Old 06-10-2019, 06:56 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by walstib View Post
8K is pure marketing and always will be for the next gen. these consoles will not render 60fps or possibly even 30 with ray tracing, etc at that res.

there is no mass consumer content in 8K either. most 4K movies are all 2K DI upscaled still today.

what i read in this announcement tells me we are having a convergence of sorts as this is pretty much what sony is releasing too. the differences in hardware and performance are further narrowing as to be meaningless. that sucks because competition is how we got here in the first place.
The competition is in the space of games. That is part of why I switched from Xbox to PlayStation in the first place, Sony was putting major emphasis on games and Microsoft was just leaving games to the 3rd party developers and missing out on the exclusives.

Microsoft seems determined to try to fix that by buying up lots of studios. The problem with that is that MS tends to stick their hands into those studios, tell them to make something other than what they are good at making and then close the studio when that product fails.

I think you will see some great competition between the PS5 and the Xbox X Next because MS has dumped all this money into those studios. We should see at least one great game out of all those studios before MS starts to stick their nose into things and muck it up. Or they could even shift how they do business and just leave those people alone to make great stuff. We know they are motivated to make the Xbox brand work ó look at E3, while Sony and Electronic Arts gave up on the show this year, MS did their same big budget show as always. You have to give them credit for sticking it out and showing people they are serious.

I feel bad for people who bought the X, because itís going to be obsolete in a year, but Iím in the same boat with the Pro... I just bought mine and Iím going to have to buy another one. (Though you have to admit Iím not the average consumer and I will have spent a massive number of hours using that machine before the upgrade.)
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Old 06-10-2019, 06:59 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by BeardedSonOfNel View Post
My old eyes have a hard time telling the difference.
I donít know about the difference between 1080p and 4K, but when Iím watching TV shows on a 1080 screen, you can pretty much see the difference between 720p and 1080p. It just looks better.

We donít even have a 4K TV yet, probably get one at the end of the summer when I finish cleaning out my old office.
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Old 06-10-2019, 12:28 PM   #32
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I already kind of jumped off the train. My 1080P TVs look fine to me. I'm not upgrading until one of mine breaks and even then, it will be a grudging upgrade.
In work I have a reasonable spec 4K monitor. It spends all day, each day of the week, at 1080p. At home I have a medium quality LG 4K hdr screen, connected to a quad Nuc. The TV is set to 1080p. Could I set them to 4K? Yes. Then increase the DPI to 200% as it's only a 27" screen (Monitor), or 150% (49% TV). What... is... the... point?

I now have a few 2160p films but still cannot really be bothered as nearly everything out there (for what I want) is 1080p. Now that 8K is here... will 4K be dropped as they head towards 8K? Who knows.



Quick story:
I used to work at Dixons, many years back, when DVD was just being released. So many people would walk into the store, stopping to watch the amazing DVD demo screen. It proclaimed to be amazing, with superior audio and video. Etc. Usual.

The demo, for DVD, was running from a VHS tape.
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Old 06-10-2019, 12:46 PM   #33
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While 4k does make a very clear improvement over 1080p, HDR is a far bigger improvement in many regards, not the retina scorching brightness they love to promote but the enormously improved color pallet. 8k is again, noticeably clearer when compared to 4k, but we are solidly into diminishing returns on resolution. 8k brings us to 32MP per frame, graphics really need to start worrying about being fundamentally better instead of just upping the pixel count. To be fair, that's what ray tracing is going to bring us, the interesting tradeoff this generation is the ratio off die space spent on traditional rasterization(moar pixels) versus die space spent on dedicated ray tracing hardware(better quality lower resolution).
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Old 06-10-2019, 12:51 PM   #34
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So how many sku's of the xbone are we into now that are going to be made redundant?
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Old 06-10-2019, 08:35 PM   #35
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So how many sku's of the xbone are we into now that are going to be made redundant?
A metric fuckton.
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Old 06-11-2019, 06:26 PM   #36
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Do you see a lot of 8K monitors out there? Do you seriously think that when their current hardware stuggles to do 4K at a playable framerate that somehow their new hardware will do 8K???

They can barely manage 4K at 60 fps and mostly can't hit that framerate. I get that you are a fan, but control yourself please, it's embarrassing.
All the 4k Xbox One X games play fine for me...
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Old 06-11-2019, 06:29 PM   #37
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If they keep the accessories/games compatible I see no problem with this pace of new consoles. It would let you skip a generation or two based on your budget/needs/wants. kinda like what I do on my pc.
The Xbox One came out in 2013. The Xbox One X is just a minor update with 4K capability.

It will be 7 years when Scarlett hits. Technology has made huge leaps forward. It's easily time for an SSD console with native 60+ fps 4K capability. If they can do 8K (which I doubt) props to them.
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Old 06-11-2019, 06:34 PM   #38
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I like that you guys are twisting multiple SKUs like it isn't incredibly pro-consumer.

We have 3 tiers of hardware that can play bare minimum 3 generations of XB games at different resolutions and framerates. You can personally dive in on any of them whenever the library and price justify it.
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Old 06-11-2019, 07:21 PM   #39
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You have that totally backwards. You know that, right?
Actually he doesn't, stop looking at PC gaming like it's 1995, it's not been like that in a very long time. You end up just coming off as extremely ignorant.
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:17 AM   #40
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Actually he doesn't, stop looking at PC gaming like it's 1995, it's not been like that in a very long time. You end up just coming off as extremely ignorant.
Yah, I actually sort of agree with Spec here.

PC gaming is not what it used to be. It's easy. Even building a PC from scratch is infinitely easier than it's ever been.

I find consoles that are trying to be PCs now to be more complicated to navigate and deal with than my PC, or even maintaining my PC hardware or upgrading it. It's much cheaper too nowadays, with upgraded consoles coming out every 3 years. The games are cheaper too.

You can't beat PC gaming in 2019. It's too #@%@ easy.
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