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Old 09-08-2017, 09:01 AM   #301
Terran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix1985 View Post
DACA is a net positive for society as far as can be proven
Not it's not. But I'll tell you what, you go ahead and contact the folks who've been assaulted, raped, or had family members murdered by DACA 'children' and let them know how positive it is. Douche.

Quote:
That you'd want it ended on a technicality
Douche. It's the LAW, not a technicality. They entered the country illegally. Quite simple and legally clear. Not 'technical' at all.

Quote:
resulting in the deporting of hundreds of thousands of people for no significant reason other than "they shouldn't be here"
The LAW of the land says they are here illegally. That's a significant enough reason, unless you're a libtardian advocate for open borders.

Quote:
sort of implicates you for wanting to end humanity.
'Liberal logic=If you're not willing to let people stay in America illegally, you want to end humanity.'

The stupid from you people is painful. It's a big world out there, moron. Folks don't have to live in America for humanity to exist and continue.
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Old 09-08-2017, 09:34 AM   #302
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Originally Posted by Terran View Post
It's a big world out there, moron. Folks don't have to live in America for humanity to exist and continue.

...he really IS arguing for the end of US civilization.

Oh man I've never argued with an ultra-nihilist before! This is like a dream come true.
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Old 09-08-2017, 10:39 AM   #303
Terran
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Originally Posted by Phoenix1985 View Post
...he really IS arguing for the end of US civilization.
Liberal progtard: 'The U.S. will cease to exist without illegal immigration!'



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Old 09-08-2017, 11:50 AM   #304
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Lofucking loud. Letting illegals stay is a net positive? Lol Dude listen to yourself. If you're not a brainwashed fucking idiot, I don't know what is. We have federal laws for a reason, advocating them being broken just to bring more mexicans and muslim shits in is fucking downright stupid. You Phoenix are a fucking retard.
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Old 09-08-2017, 01:19 PM   #305
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In this day and age Brietbart is about as reliable as CNN, CBS, ABC, MSNBC and every other news source as far as bias goes so I wouldn't go attacking sources. The fact is each of those crimes would not have been committed has the Dreamer not been in the country.

Does that mean an American isn't capable of similar crimes? No, the evidence clearly shows that's not the case. People are people.

But it does show there were many crimes, some horrible, that happened specifically because laws were broken AND people are allowed to stay in America with the tacit approval of past administrations and current local and state authorities despite flagrant violations of federal law.

When backed into a corner even "neutral" sources are forced to admit DACA "kids" are no more or less successful than real citizens of similar means when it comes to academic or societal achievement. And even if we found a new diamond in the rough wouldn't it:
1) Take that know how to their native country and apply for an H1-B or immigration legally under the new proposed merit based rules or

2) Use that knowledge and become a rockstar in their native country and arguably help pull THEM out, even a little, from the depths of whatever cesspit they may be existing in?

The more I think about it I wonder if repatriation might be done on a sliding, merit based scale. If you haven't squandered your opportunities as a dreamer then maybe you get to stick around and apply for a green card with a special H1- status while you go through the real immigration process just like a regular H1 applicant.

If you've become a dreg of society and a burden to the system then you can GTFO and go weigh down your native country. Maybe with a $10,000 parting gift just to help you along. Imagine how much of a boost that would give to the world economy too...
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Old 09-08-2017, 05:01 PM   #306
Terran
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Originally Posted by vallor View Post
When backed into a corner even "neutral" sources are forced to admit DACA "kids" are no more or less successful than real citizens of similar means when it comes to academic or societal achievement.
Even illegals who are otherwise law abiding citizens come with an opportunity cost paid by American citizens and legal immigrants. For example, hundreds of employees at Microsoft, Apple, and Google are in the DACA program (i.e. are illegally present in the United States). They are occupying positions which would otherwise have been available to other legal individuals, either citizens or green card/work visa holders. Amazingly, these companies are offering to pay their DACA employees legal fees to fight extradition. WTF? Are they doing anything comparable purely for their citizen employees? NOPE. In fact, they're among many companies actively firing American citizens so they can hire cheap indentured foreign servants through the H1-B program...or just illegals without documentation, because who gives a fuck if they're legal to employ, eh?!
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Old 09-08-2017, 05:07 PM   #307
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Originally Posted by Phoenix1985 View Post
Does DACA have any relation, whatsoever, to any increases in crimes committed by a group, or as already proven in studies, none at all?
By definition, every person that was to qualified under the DACA was committing a crime. This is because 100% of illegal immigrants are committing a crime. I realize much of the media refuses to call this illegal act illegal because of "wrongthink," but that doesn't change the fact that it is. Not to worry, the media is working overtime to push an obvious falsehood:


Don't worry, it was just a typo:
Quote:
CHICAGO (AP) ó In a story Sept. 5 about Mayor Rahm Emanuel telling Chicago students they "have nothing to worry about" as President Donald Trump's administration winds down a program protecting young immigrants from deportation, The Associated Press incorrectly described the students who could be affected. They are living in the country illegally, not undocumented citizens.
Hey, it's almost as if when they jumped the gun and had to admit to the reality at hand.

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Originally Posted by Phoenix1985 View Post
DACA is a net positive for society as far as can be proven (the legality of the implementation itself is a different question of course). That you'd want it ended on a technicality, resulting in the deporting of hundreds of thousands of people for no significant reason other than "they shouldn't be here" sort of implicates you for wanting to end humanity. I'm not sure why you're indicting yourself like this to be honest.
As pointed out, illegally immigrating is not a technicality. Wanting to enforce immigration laws does not in any way imply that a person automatically wants to end any and all immigration, as all immigration is not illegal. Your rebuttal is purely a non sequitur.

A March 2017 DHS release stated:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHS
There are 45,493 foreign-born inmates currently in BOP custody, of which 3,939 are U.S. citizens (either naturalized or derivative). Of the remaining 41,554 foreign-born inmates (aliens):

o Approximately 22,541 (54.2 percent) are aliens for which final immigration orders have been issued for their removal;

o Approximately 13,886 (33.4 percent) are aliens who are under ICE investigation for possible removal;

o Approximately 5,101 (12.3 percent) are aliens still pending adjudication (in other words, ICE has charged these aliens as removal cases, but a final disposition has not yet been reached); and

o Approximately 26 (0.1 percent) are aliens who have been granted relief on the basis of asylum claims.
DHS reported in August of 2017 that the Justice Department's Bureau of Prisons had 187,855 inmates in custody.

According to World Atlas on 28 August 2017:
Quote:
Legal immigrants in the United States total to about 37,000,000 persons and there is an approximately 1,000,000 immigrants entering the country each year. In total, the United States hosts about 43.3 million foreign-born people. Of these, 20.7 million are naturalized U.S. citizens and 22.6 million are non-citizens. Of the non-citizens, those with lawful permanent residence are about 13.1 million; 1.7 million hold temporary visas; and 11.1 million are unauthorized migrants.
A population that numbers 22.6 million (which I'm sure the estimates vary in either direction) accounts for a far higher % of those in the Justice Department's Bureau of Prison's custody than they should if all was equal. This also does not cover those held at the state and local levels. How many of them qualified under the DACA? I don't know, but I do know that the media at large is not interested in finding out.

I feel bad for most of those that were brought here as children by their parents illegally. People should be mad at those parents for breaking the law, not because the U.S. might actually enforce its laws.

So, to one of your questions:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix1985
Is it better, or worse, that a group produces less criminals than other groups?
100% of those that qualified for the DACA were committing a crime by virtue of being an illegal immigrant. Is it better or worse that a group produces less criminals than other groups?
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Many cultures of the world marry girls off after their first menses, around 13 years old. I can't say that's inherently immoral, no.
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Old 09-08-2017, 05:31 PM   #308
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Feds: 30% surge in illegals losing DACA freedom for crimes, gang violence
Quote:
On the eve of President Trump deciding the status of the Obama era program deferring deportation for nearly 800,000 mostly Latin American young adults, federal immigration authorities are revealing a surge in those losing their freedom "due to criminality or gang affiliation concerns."

Officials told Secrets that the number has surged 30 percent this year.

The U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services said that 622 had their deferred action status pulled this year due to criminal activity.

The numbers on revocations and terminations:

2013 -- 56.
2014 -- 153.
2015 -- 460.
2016 -- 848.
2017 -- 622.
Total -- 2,139.
According to USCIS, "The deferred action terminations were due to one or more of the following: a felony criminal conviction; a significant misdemeanor conviction; multiple misdemeanor convictions; gang affiliation; or arrest of any crime in which there is deemed to be a public safety concern. Most DACA terminations were based on the following infractions (not ranked): alien smuggling, assaultive offenses, domestic violence, drug offenses, DUI, larceny and thefts, criminal trespass and burglary [undocumented entry and undocumented borrowing, amiright?], sexual offenses with minors, other sex offenses and weapons offenses."

In a recent case, Immigrations and Customs Enforcement arrested three DACA immigrants in a nationwide sweep of gangs.

The numbers are small by comparison to the larger DACA population but experts said it shows that not a lot is known about the activities of the youths, mostly young adults.

"It confirms that the DACA screening process was woefully inadequate. The eligibility bar was set very low, explicitly allowing people with multiple misdemeanor and certain felony convictions to be approved. Only a handful of the applicants were ever interviewed, and only rarely was the information on the application ever verified," said Jessica M. Vaughan, director of policy studies at the Washington-based Center for Immigration Studies.

She told Secrets, "this statistic undercuts the image of DACA that has been spread by the pro-illegal alien groups and the news media, that the DACA recipients are mostly college kids. This is not true. We don't know much about the population, but one of the few credible studies that has been done, by a scholar at Harvard University, found that at most are more than 22 years old, and only about 20 percent graduated from or attended a four-year college. A significant share never went beyond high school. This is not really all that surprising, since over 72 percent come from a family at or below poverty level and accessing some public assistance."

While the figures also show that many DACA recipients may be law followers and high achievers, but she said it shows that not all should be granted a form of citizenship if Trump extends the program.

"This suggests two important things that should happen if there is to be a legalization: not everyone with DACA should be guaranteed as eligible for legalization, and the existing legal immigration categories, especially the parents category and the extended family categories, should be trimmed back in order to minimize the fiscal and economic costs that the legalization will bring," said Vaughan.
I obviously put something in brackets in the quote.
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Many cultures of the world marry girls off after their first menses, around 13 years old. I can't say that's inherently immoral, no.
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Old 09-08-2017, 08:13 PM   #309
blackzc
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Originally Posted by Phoenix1985 View Post
DACA is a net positive for society as far as can be proven (the legality of the implementation itself is a different question of course). That you'd want it ended on a technicality, resulting in the deporting of hundreds of thousands of people for no significant reason other than "they shouldn't be here" sort of implicates you for wanting to end humanity. I'm not sure why you're indicting yourself like this to be honest.
Yes, flooding a country with already stagnant pay over the past 40 years, further dropping the standard of living to an already chopped in half pay rate via women working instead of raising kids is (net positive lol) for society (and not just out country)

What you are fucking promoting is everyone wallering and fighting over scraps while the 1% increases its take even more(have you looked at those numbers Mr. immigration?) Do you think there might be a reason why businesses want to import cheap as fuck labor into the country? Do you realize it takes real money in this fucking dump of upward mobility to live in a half decent neighborhood? And how tough it makes it for plebs like me who started from nothing and were given nothing?

And you call yourself a Democrat....

A holy shit at equating deporting illegals with ending humanity. This is some wack job shit dude, and coming from me that's saying something..





Bah, beat me to it. Wow just wow right?..
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Originally Posted by Terran View Post


'Liberal logic=If you're not willing to let people stay in America illegally, you want to end humanity.'

The stupid from you people is painful. It's a big world out there, moron. Folks don't have to live in America for humanity to exist and continue.
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Old 09-11-2017, 11:13 AM   #310
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I read somewhere that wages for construction workers in Texas rose thanks to Trump's Immigration policies.

Who would have thought that having a lot of unskilled cheap labor pouring in was going to lower the wages of Americans? Who benefits? the "greedy corporations" that liberals are so against. Liberals are puppets of the corporate interests. Such fools.
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Old 09-11-2017, 02:11 PM   #311
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The past 5 years have moved me further right and further left at the same time. I now realize that unless we are going to have a completely free market and not the shit show we have now.. (why cant i build and sell cars without 8 air bags or build my own house outside of code to save money?) then the workers are going to have to be protected.
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Old 09-11-2017, 03:05 PM   #312
Terran
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I read somewhere that wages for construction workers in Texas rose thanks to Trump's Immigration policies.
Yes they did. One of many very positive effects of his immigration policies.

I get a kick out of dumbass liberals who cry and moan about the 'unsustainable lifestyle of the average American' and our effect upon the environment who then turn around and want open borders to welcome in tens of millions of more third-world people to live at the same unsustainable lifestyle.

I also get a kick out of dumbass liberals crying over a livable wage when they're busy importing tens of millions of workers whose presence in the market depresses wages for the folks who can least afford lower pay, those at the low skill end of the economic totem pole. RINOs and the GOPe are right in on this action, the bastards.

Yup. Complete dumbasses.
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Old 09-12-2017, 12:54 AM   #313
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Originally Posted by VenomUSMC View Post
So, to one of your questions:
100% of those that qualified for the DACA were committing a crime by virtue of being an illegal immigrant. Is it better or worse that a group produces less criminals than other groups?
Considering Terran and me were discussing crimes that lead to prison sentences I don't think this is as convincing as you think it is. Especially considering the DACA exists (existed?) to adress a specific crime and nullifying the execution of that sentence as it was considered to be unjust.

Also, I'm somewhat amazed Terran got so mad from the thought of people not commiting crimes he couldn't even post words but had to rely on meme pictures. Are you alright buddy?
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:55 AM   #314
Terran
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I don't think this is as convincing as you think it is.
Considering you think humanity is at risk if illegals are not allowed to stay in America, I think it's clear who may want to consider what is or is not convincing, lol. Or sane. Nutburger.
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Old 09-12-2017, 01:33 PM   #315
VenomUSMC
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Considering Terran and me were discussing crimes that lead to prison sentences I don't think this is as convincing as you think it is.
Illegally immigrating, which is a crime, can lead to a prison sentence, even for young illegal immigrants. How do you not know this?
Quote:
Criminal Penalties

For the first improper entry offense, the person can be fined (as a criminal penalty), or imprisoned for up to six months, or both. For a subsequent offense, the person can be fined or imprisoned for up to two years, or both. (See 8 U.S.C. Section 1325, I.N.A. Section 275.)
But just in case that isnít enough to deter illegal entrants, a separate section of the law adds penalties for reentry (or attempted reentry) in cases where the person had been convicted of certain types of crimes and thus removed (deported) from the U.S., as follows:
(1) People removed for a conviction of three or more misdemeanors involving drugs, crimes against the person, or both, or a felony (other than an aggravated felony), shall be fined, imprisoned for up to ten years, or both.
(2) People removed for a conviction of an aggravated felony shall be fined, imprisoned for up to 20 years, or both.
(3) People who were excluded or removed from the United States for security reasons shall be fined, and imprisoned for up to ten years, which sentence shall not run concurrently with any other sentence.
(4) Nonviolent offenders who were removed from the United States before their prison sentence was up shall be fined, imprisoned for up to ten years, or both.
Whatís more, someone deported before a prison sentence was complete may be incarcerated for the remainder of the sentence of imprisonment, without any reduction for parole or supervised release.
(See 8 U.S.C. Section 1326, I.N.A. Section 276.)
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Especially considering the DACA exists (existed?) to adress a specific crime and nullifying the execution of that sentence as it was considered to be unjust.
DACA did not nullify the execution of that sentence. The DACA was a policy which was intended to defer the enforcement of actual existing immigration law, not nullify it. Beyond that, it extend attempt to offer certain protections and circumvent actual laws exclusively through executive action. Per the policy, at least as it was written, it wasn't even supposed to afford protection to all of the illegal immigrants that qualified due to age.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix1985 View Post
Also, I'm somewhat amazed Terran got so mad from the thought of people not commiting crimes he couldn't even post words but had to rely on meme pictures. Are you alright buddy?
Illegally immigrating is committing a crime.

Some other numbers on the DACA which are counter to what the MSM and many are claiming: 21% have dropped out of high school versus the nearly 6% national dropout rate.
17% of eligible illegal immigrants eligible for the DACA had earned a bachelor's (22% of those who had actually signed up) or higher versus 32% of all Americans.

Some of the incarceration data [2017 CATO):


Now it's worth noting that sanctuary cities often make it a point of not cooperating with federal agencies on the immigration issue. This seems to question if the amount of so-called Dreamers who are arrested are simply under reported.
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Many cultures of the world marry girls off after their first menses, around 13 years old. I can't say that's inherently immoral, no.
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