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Old 04-26-2011, 03:00 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by Agnostic Pope View Post
LOL!

Man am I glad I sold my ps3 years ago.
Except your personal information is still in the system after all these years.
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Old 04-26-2011, 03:04 PM   #122
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I never put it in. :P
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Old 04-26-2011, 03:05 PM   #123
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Except your personal information is still in the system after all these years.
Theory #2
Teecakes hacked in downloaded all the personal information of those registered to the PSN so he'd know who to spare when he launched his attack on the non-believers. (which I guess would ultimately end in his own suicide since he claims he doesn't own a PS 3).
God help us all.
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Many cultures of the world marry girls off after their first menses, around 13 years old. I can't say that's inherently immoral, no.
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Old 04-26-2011, 03:32 PM   #124
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SaintBlitzkrieg, VenomUSMC, please stop. You've both made your points abundantly clear. You're reaching the point of being like two parrots fighting. You both just keep screaming the same things back and forth at each other and no one is winning. I actually have a migraine after reading this entire topic.

Access to PSN is included when you purchase a PS3 system. You are essentially buying a lifetime membership (albeit for the lifetime of the service, not of you or your console), hence why it is listed as an advertised feature when you buy the console. It is illegal to advertise a feature on your product and then remove that feature after the product has already been sold. This is basically the same argument as the removal of the other-OS feature, which is what caused a class-action lawsuit against Sony and started this whole nonsense with GeoHot and Anonymous in the first place.

Yes, it is accepted that the PSN can not exist forever, and that eventually the servers will be shut down, but it is also accepted that Sony won't shut them down until after the PS3s successor has been on the market for a decent amount of time, much like how the Xbox Live service for the original Xbox wasn't shut down until after the Xbox 360 had been out for five years.

As I said before, Sony is not obligated to make any reparations to their customers since they are not paying any sort of incremental monthly or yearly fee (excluding PSN+ members), but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be doing something as keeping their customers happy is just good business and I doubt Sony is stupid.

Also, in regards to the ability to play online not being included with the purchase of a game that has online features, this is wrong as well. What exactly do you call an online pass? If I buy a game and it comes with a code that I have to redeem before I can play that game online, that means I paid for the online capabilities. Likewise, if I buy a game used and that code isn't valid, meaning I have to pay an additional ~$10 for my online pass then that means that I am paying for the online component specifically as a separate product. Kinda ruins your argument about PSN being a service and not a product, doesn't it SaintBlitzkrieg?

Anyway, I need to wrap this up in a tl;dr format:

When you buy a PS3 you are buying access to PSN. When you buy a game you are buying access to it's online features. Yes, Sony can turn off the PSN at some point, but that point isn't now.

Oh, and one last thing.
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A huge image.
Thanks for breaking the page formatting for everyone else. Would you be so kind as to resize images before you post them in the future, please?
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Old 04-26-2011, 05:59 PM   #125
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Go fuck yourself sideways you homophobe. Way to blow things out of proportion as well.
Whatever, my point stands.

Tree hits powerline in storm and your power goes out. I guess that's all the fault of the power company too? They should give you a free car for not being able to stop wind or gravity?

What's homophobic about my post btw? That I hope the people that did it choke on 1,000 cocks? Hardly homophobic, it's just not a nice way to die, whether you like cocks in your mouth or not. Also I have no problem with homosexuals. I have gay friends... but I guess I secretly hate them.

Also it's not blowing it out of proportion, it's using exaggeration to make my point, that it's not all the fault of Sony and more the fault of the people that did it since they're the amoral douchebags (yes I hate douches and the bags attached to them... but perhaps I'm overcompensating and secretly want to be a device for cleaning vaginas) that did it irrespective of the state of security.
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Old 04-26-2011, 06:30 PM   #126
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Tree hits powerline in storm and your power goes out. I guess that's all the fault of the power company too? They should give you a free car for not being able to stop wind or gravity?
That's not analogous. This wasn't an act of god without any contributions to the problem by Sony themselves.

They designed a poor system. The internet's natural ecosystem found the holes and exploited them as it always does. You design the system up front to prevent that or else YOU ARE A MORON. In this case, Sony is a moron. There are ways to design something to be fault tolerant. The real problem here is that Sony's PSN network is little more than an also-ran, a meager shadow of Xbox Live that they never wanted to provide but felt they had to because of Live. The result is the thing was patched together out of duct-tape and chewing gum and they were all out of gum :P
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Old 04-26-2011, 06:30 PM   #127
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It's too amusing to me to have someone actually argue that PSN is purely free to give that up :*(
I agree Sony can turn off the PSN and is not obligated to give their customers anything however I don't see that as being good business sense
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Many cultures of the world marry girls off after their first menses, around 13 years old. I can't say that's inherently immoral, no.
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Old 04-26-2011, 06:50 PM   #128
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One of you's arguing legal requirement, the other's arguing the social contract implicit in buying a PS3. Both right from a certain point of view.

Ultimately, Sony is damaging its brand in the eyes of consumers with continual service disruption of PSN, legal requirement or not--gamers expect it to be up, and they expect Sony to be savvy enough to keep it up. Sony's burning customer goodwill with every hour. Especially from all the people with Netflix who don't know you can click through.
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Old 04-26-2011, 06:57 PM   #129
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Whatever, my point stands.
Meh what I said was uncalled for, I know gay insults are still around but really there are worst ways to die. Thing is this wasn't a natural disaster/occurence it was a company with a crappy network...and yeah credit card leaks, information ect, ect.
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Old 04-26-2011, 08:12 PM   #130
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That's not analogous. This wasn't an act of god without any contributions to the problem by Sony themselves.

They designed a poor system. The internet's natural ecosystem found the holes and exploited them as it always does. You design the system up front to prevent that or else YOU ARE A MORON. In this case, Sony is a moron. There are ways to design something to be fault tolerant. The real problem here is that Sony's PSN network is little more than an also-ran, a meager shadow of Xbox Live that they never wanted to provide but felt they had to because of Live. The result is the thing was patched together out of duct-tape and chewing gum and they were all out of gum :P
I'm sure if these people put as much effort into bypassing XBL security as much as they do PSN they'd find a way to bring that down too.

Sony can only be expected to do so much to protect the network. I don't know what they did but I'd wager a courtroom would argue the protections in place were sufficent. I'd expect tbh that it's no more or less secure than every other personal information holding system out there. They've set them up before why would they suddenly skimp here? I'm guessing they've lost millions by having to shutdown the system, it's not something they'd want to do.

If a guy drives seven bulldozers into a bank vault people don't do "arg, you should have planned against a multiple bulldozer attack!". The fact is there's too many highly intelligent losers out there that like to do this sort of thing. It's happened before (a lot easier and a lot worse than this) and it'll happen again. Why is Sony being singled out? Nerd rage.

It's not like XBL has never had it's problems.

I'm not saying Sony are blameless. I'm just saying the blame is being unfairly misaligned when it should be mostly on (as I said earlier) the people that did this.

People are complaining that passwords got out and blah blah blah, that they might use these passwords and emails to get on other stuff. Whose fault is that then if someone has the same email and password for multiple things? Not Sony's. They might steal your CC info. So? It's called regularly checking statements. If wonky stuff goes down tell the bank, it's all recoverable. CC info gets stolen all the time. Sony has a responsibility for security but so do people who use the systems.
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Old 04-26-2011, 08:24 PM   #131
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Also MS are probably auditing the shit out of XBL right now. They'll probably find holes. We'll just never hear about them.
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Old 04-26-2011, 08:44 PM   #132
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I'm sure if these people put as much effort into bypassing XBL security as much as they do PSN they'd find a way to bring that down too.

Sony can only be expected to do so much to protect the network. I don't know what they did but I'd wager a courtroom would argue the protections in place were sufficent. I'd expect tbh that it's no more or less secure than every other personal information holding system out there. They've set them up before why would they suddenly skimp here? I'm guessing they've lost millions by having to shutdown the system, it's not something they'd want to do.

If a guy drives seven bulldozers into a bank vault people don't do "arg, you should have planned against a multiple bulldozer attack!". The fact is there's too many highly intelligent losers out there that like to do this sort of thing. It's happened before (a lot easier and a lot worse than this) and it'll happen again. Why is Sony being singled out? Nerd rage.

It's not like XBL has never had it's problems.

I'm not saying Sony are blameless. I'm just saying the blame is being unfairly misaligned when it should be mostly on (as I said earlier) the people that did this.

People are complaining that passwords got out and blah blah blah, that they might use these passwords and emails to get on other stuff. Whose fault is that then if someone has the same email and password for multiple things? Not Sony's. They might steal your CC info. So? It's called regularly checking statements. If wonky stuff goes down tell the bank, it's all recoverable. CC info gets stolen all the time. Sony has a responsibility for security but so do people who use the systems.
Yeah, and Ane's being a little unfair. As I've said before, for the most part anything can be hacked. And apparently anytime we think something is impossible to breach we soon learn we were wrong.
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Old 04-26-2011, 10:21 PM   #133
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"SCEA reserves the right to remove any content and communication from Sony Online Services at SCEA’s sole discretion without notice. "

"SCEA has no obligation to reverse or refund unauthorized charges made on your credit or debit card. "

"SCEA, at its sole discretion, may modify the terms of this Agreement at any time, including imposing a fee for creating PSN accounts."

"No warranty is given about the quality, functionality, availability or performance of Sony Online Services, or any content or service offered on or through Sony Online Services. All services and content are provided “AS IS” and “AS AVAILABLE” with all faults. SCEA does not warrant that the service and content will be uninterrupted, error-free or without delays. "

Has anyone read the TOS for PSN?
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Old 04-26-2011, 10:51 PM   #134
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Has anyone read the TOS for PSN?
I almost pissed myself laughing. Who reads TOS?
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Old 04-26-2011, 11:21 PM   #135
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Has anyone read the TOS for PSN?
That doesn't mean people aren't going to be upset. Human nature.
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Old 04-27-2011, 12:53 AM   #136
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Nowhere in the TOS does it say that Sony can't be held responsible if a third party obtains every bit of personal info possible about you due to their negligence (birthdays, security questions, the works). An class action lawyer will have a field day with this. Sign me up!
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Old 04-27-2011, 03:31 AM   #137
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Contracts can say what they want. Doesn't make them enforceable, especialy TOS contracts that are very one-sided and contain no consideration. In the end, it comes down to what the judge thinks is reasonable. If the judge found that PSN was part of the purchase price and an implied feature they could certainly end up forced to keep it up or reimburse. Most corporate strategy tries to avoid scenarios where they're sued by their own customers tho :P
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Old 04-27-2011, 06:02 AM   #138
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"SCEA reserves the right to remove any content and communication from Sony Online Services at SCEA’s sole discretion without notice. "

"SCEA has no obligation to reverse or refund unauthorized charges made on your credit or debit card. "

"SCEA, at its sole discretion, may modify the terms of this Agreement at any time, including imposing a fee for creating PSN accounts."

"No warranty is given about the quality, functionality, availability or performance of Sony Online Services, or any content or service offered on or through Sony Online Services. All services and content are provided “AS IS” and “AS AVAILABLE” with all faults. SCEA does not warrant that the service and content will be uninterrupted, error-free or without delays. "

Has anyone read the TOS for PSN?

This only proves that PSN is a service not a product like i have been stating since the get go.
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Old 04-27-2011, 09:19 AM   #139
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This only proves that PSN is a service not a product like i have been stating since the get go.
I'm sure Xbox Live has the same language in it's TOS... yet you label it a "product".
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Old 04-27-2011, 01:13 PM   #140
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If true, this removes my only annoyance at PSN being down - http://www.giantbomb.com/news/hulu-p...n-friday/3089/
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