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Old 01-03-2018, 08:12 AM   #41
Chimpbot
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Pretty much that's where things are now. It started with Marvel hiring cheap writers and artists because the established and more talented ones are comparatively expensive. The fact the cheap hires are also talentless SJWs was interpreted as a bonus by the higher ups who base their decisions on Twitter narratives. Fans always ask "What happened to all the greats? Don't they still make comics?" Well, yeah. But nobody will pay them except maybe Image or some one shots. The guys I know are very bitter about it.
Most of the great comic writers from the past couple of decades are off doing their own creator-owned work; it's not only where all of the money is now, but they get to keep everything they create.

30+ years ago, the peak of any career would have been working at Marvel or DC. Now, they're just viewed as stepping stones toward getting to create stuff that is actually yours.
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Old 01-03-2018, 08:21 AM   #42
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Most of the great comic writers from the past couple of decades are off doing their own creator-owned work; it's not only where all of the money is now, but they get to keep everything they create.

30+ years ago, the peak of any career would have been working at Marvel or DC. Now, they're just viewed as stepping stones toward getting to create stuff that is actually yours.
Very few blow up, though. Not everyone can be a Robert Kirkman or the next McFarlane, and that's what makes a lot of them bitter. Owning your creation is all well and good. It doesn't pay the bills and fame is a tempting thing.
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Old 01-03-2018, 10:50 AM   #43
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Chip is right that most people are doing their own work and Max is right that most of those people fail. Image & IDW are happy to spin off creators into their own works and then just let those titles die a few issues later. Image is the biggest vulture in the industry. They are happy to let a new book start, work its way through the distribution process (in which pre-orders are placed months before a title launches) and then just let it die the second it comes out only to be replaced by whatever they listed in the months after that. Image has zero interest in making titles popular or letting them grow, because they don’t own any of those titles and can’t benefit from the success.

Instead Image & IDW have become #1 machines, cranking out a new slate of #1 issues every few months and banking on the rabid after-market to snap them up hoping that one of them will become the next Saga or Walking Dead.

Even semi-popular titles like East of West only last a few years. I don’t give Saga much longer either. Brian K. Vaughn’s longest running title was 50 issues and Saga is close to that point now.
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Old 01-03-2018, 11:48 PM   #44
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Ahhh the warmth of the flaaammeeessss.

It does seem that a lot of politics and the divide between viewpoints is pretty polarizing. Arguments paint the opposite side as either alt-right or SJW. In my opinion both are pretty abominable. The far right side of the spectrum really is racist, homophobic, anti-immigrant and the product of nativism. However the far left of the spectrum is overly apologist, hypersensitive, thin-skinned, and led by a sense of false entitlement for real or imagined past offenses against their race, creed, sexual orientation etc.

Marvel tries to sell comic books. With declining sales they are going to try something different and if that experiment fails, they will move back to their core formula to try to bring back some lost readers until they think they have a new winning formula.

Because they sell comic books. A company that stands still and doesn't try to grow its customer base slowly dies. All the SJW claims and line changes whatever they say are simply an effort to increase their customer base. Maybe not in a way you like. But its because what they were doing wasn't adding new readers. What they did might have been bad idea, maybe they don't understand their core base. But they haven't hit on the formula that will grow it either.

The shit-throwing coming from the disagreement with the social direction their comics took illustrates peoples growing intolerance of opposing social or political views, but deep down Marvel doesn't really CARE. They care about comic sales and share price. If they didn't their owners would throw their executives out on their ass because they aren't making changes to attempt to grow shareholder value.

So before you pull out the knives and go after each other for being racist nazi's or pussified SJW's: remember Marvel doesn't give a shit about your politics. They care about finding the best way to increase shareholder value and profits.

BTW very, very, VERY few people are really the far ends of the spectrum for left or right. Its just easier to belittle them if you portray them that way.

The most I have typed for this site ever: but hey, on the internet everybody has a soapbox.
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Old 01-04-2018, 12:40 AM   #45
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The most I have typed for this site ever: but hey, on the internet everybody has a soapbox.
Well it was a good contribution. Hope to see you around some more.
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Old 01-04-2018, 06:21 AM   #46
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Well it was a good contribution. Hope to see you around some more.
The sad thing is, he'll probably get chewed up because he's probably not conservative enough...which means he's nothing more than a filthy progressive libtard SJW. Clearly.
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Old 01-04-2018, 09:10 AM   #47
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BTW very, very, VERY few people are really the far ends of the spectrum for left or right.
This is a moot point. The point isn't whether people can be considered far right or left, the point is that Americans are increasingly ideologically sorting themselves, and that this political, geographic, and social sorting is in fact a result of, and resulting in, zero-sum political/social positions that are all but impossible to compromise over.

No matter how much leftist progressives scream and moan, I will NEVER:

* Agree with them that whites are intrinsically racist.
* Agree with them that America is intrinsically racist and 'the problem.'
* Agree with them that I must give up my right to self defense.
* Agree with them that free speech should be limited as they see fit.
* Agree with them that XX can be XY, that XY can be XX, because feelings.
* Agree with them that all the failed predictions of the end of the world are still valid and that the world will still end because...government needs to control carbon.
* Agree with them that speaking to 'black' or 'Hispanic' concerns is valid, but speaking to 'white' concerns is racist.
* Agree with them that the government knows better how to spend my money than I do.
* Agree with them that a human being can be killed if it's young enough (any time before birth, and increasingly argued by many, at any time after).
* Agree with them that if you won't bake a cake the state should ruin you.
* Agree with them that we need open borders because reasons and that immigration regulations and rules are racist.
* And on and on and on.

Left and right are increasingly unable to coexist, in large part because the left is fascistic, fundamentalist, and intolerant. Your point is moot. Meaningless.

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The sad thing is, he'll probably get chewed up because he's probably not conservative enough...which means he's nothing more than a filthy progressive libtard SJW. Clearly.
Grow up.
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Old 01-04-2018, 11:21 AM   #48
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The sad thing is, he'll probably get chewed up because he's probably not conservative enough...which means he's nothing more than a filthy progressive libtard SJW. Clearly.
The difference being he's conservative enough to not constantly shill for the other side, unlike some people.
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Old 01-04-2018, 12:18 PM   #49
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The sad thing is, he'll probably get chewed up because he's probably not conservative enough...which means he's nothing more than a filthy progressive libtard SJW. Clearly.
I was going to say that they might give him a pass simply because you said they might label him a liberal. It appears as if I have been beaten to the punch. Well done Spectral, you're nothing if not consistent.
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Old 01-04-2018, 12:36 PM   #50
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So before you pull out the knives and go after each other for being racist nazi's or pussified SJW's: remember Marvel doesn't give a shit about your politics. They care about finding the best way to increase shareholder value and profits.
Thanks for your great post!

I think to some degree you are wrong about this. These companies, companies like Disney, Marvel and other big Hollywood studios, have made a huge point out of hiring people who fit specific political profiles. While the goal of the shareholders and the board of directors may be to make money, the people running these companies and the people doing the hiring often have completely different goals.

Marvel knew from their marketing people almost two years ago that social justice themed books didn't sell, but they continued to push social justice books and hiring in writers who were women, Muslim or people-of-color specifically because they belonged to one of those groups and not because of their talent or love for the genre.

So, even after they knew that these changes were not selling and that they were actively harming their company they continued to hire these people and to introduce new books with these themes. The retailers have been complaining for two years at the retailer meeting that these books don't sell and Marvel keeps pushing them.

Even after promising to get back to "core" characters, Marvel stuck with She-Hulk, Asian Hulk, Black Spider-Man, Black Female Iron Man and Female Wolverine. There is nothing "core" about any of those characters.

As you suggest, this might have been an attempt to grow their market (it failed, since people who are minorities, different religions or women aren't big comic book buyers in the first place) but I think it was more of a move by the management to destroy the established market only because that is what they wanted to do and because it fits the political agenda of the people running the company.

Along those same lines, the current management at DC comics blames their low sales on all the violent adult-themed books from the 80's and the 90's like Watchmen, Dark Knight Returns, Swamp Thing and Killing Joke. In effect, they blame their current low sales on the very books that SAVED their company from going out of business in the 80's.

While DC's thinking isn't nearly as extreme as Marvel's position, it still shows how tone-deaf the management can be. Watchmen still sells to this day, Dark Knight & Killing Joke still sell to this day. They are essentially the only DC tales in the last few decades that people still care to read. No one is going to be buying the trade paperbacks of a happier joking Batman. It just isn't going to happen and yet that is what DC thinks they need to do because that is what is working for Marvel in the Marvel MOVIES.
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Old 01-04-2018, 01:25 PM   #51
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I was going to say that they might give him a pass simply because you said they might label him a liberal. It appears as if I have been beaten to the punch. Well done Spectral, you're nothing if not consistent.
You're welcome. Go crawl back under your rock now.
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Old 01-06-2018, 08:08 PM   #52
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Image just announced that they are raising prices from @2.99 to $3.99 on The Walking Dead. Most of their titles are already $3.99.

I think we are seeing the comic industry implode like it did at the end of the 90's.
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Old 01-07-2018, 05:04 AM   #53
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Image just announced that they are raising prices from @2.99 to $3.99 on The Walking Dead. Most of their titles are already $3.99.

I think we are seeing the comic industry implode like it did at the end of the 90's.
If it implodes it will be their own fault. Not a single person I know that is into comics, asked for the massive SJW circlejerk invading yet another hobby. When are people going to learn you don't need to inject ideology into every form of media known to man, the vast majority is tired of it.

Dennis Prager is spot on in regards to social justice. It's all agenda driven and is code for left wing equality.
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Old 01-07-2018, 10:51 AM   #54
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I think the mostly likely doomsday scenario is Marvel Studios will follow the comics off the same cliff and take everybody with them as audiences disappear. Billions of dollars of revenue dries up. It will ruin theaters, studios, and set comic books back 20 years.

My hopeful scenario is the comics make a huge about-face in quality the same time the movies die out and they take on all those dejected fans looking for a place to continue stories of the characters they love. Currently Marvel comics offers very little to those who were hooked by the movies. Fans like myself who stuck with them through the previous crash are gone. But millions of hungry fans are out there and being ignored.
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Old 01-07-2018, 05:29 PM   #55
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Image just announced that they are raising prices from @2.99 to $3.99 on The Walking Dead. Most of their titles are already $3.99.

I think we are seeing the comic industry implode like it did at the end of the 90's.
I donít know. The industry has an ace in their pocket in that they could go digital only. The problem they. Have, apparently, is that thru face tremendous pressure from retailers not to do that.

If push came to shove, they could just do that and reduce prices considerably.
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