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Old 01-02-2018, 09:10 AM   #21
Phoenix1985
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When you're this mad about changes in comics, Marvel must have been doing something right.

I stopped reading them mainly because I got all the comicbook stuff I needed from the movies and tv shows. Same for both DC and Marvel.
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Old 01-02-2018, 10:30 AM   #22
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Not a fan of the term SJW, and I haven't read or purchased a single comic book in question. I also have no direct knowledge of the specific agenda or writing shit that went into these comics. But two small points. I have a hard time believing that the poor sales are due to simply adding women and minorities to existing titles. For one, women and minorities have been in comics for decades. For two, not all comic readers are alt-right, racist, sexist whatevers that they would suddenly stop buying and or reading comics just because they represent a different social perspective. So, my guess is that it is a combination of several factors. First and foremost, people don't like it when shit they love gets changed around, and especially if it gets changed around for reasons they don't agree with. Secondly, the alt-right group of racists and sexists probably had become a bit emboldened of late, so perhaps we will start seeing more examples of blatant prejudice against anything this particular audience doesn't see as affirming to their fragile grasp of their place in society. Thirdly, I'd bet that the writing was shitty. But no, I don't buy it that it was simply backlash against women and minorities, because that isn't really new.
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Old 01-02-2018, 11:29 AM   #23
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Marvel was hiring writers based on their skin color and oppression scale and not based on their writing ability. The America Chavez writer was hired for being a puerto rican gay person and her twitter following. The comics have become not fun, they lack action and are just preaching. Panels and panels with just faces and tons of text. Not a surprise they don't sell.
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Old 01-02-2018, 11:52 AM   #24
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Marvel was hiring writers based on their skin color and oppression scale and not based on their writing ability. The America Chavez writer was hired for being a puerto rican gay person and her twitter following. The comics have become not fun, they lack action and are just preaching. Panels and panels with just faces and tons of text. Not a surprise they don't sell.
I'm curious if this is fact or speculation. I ask because you don't write about this sounding as though you have ever hired anyone or dealt with eeoc hiring laws. Having said that, it seems that no writer should ever be hired based on a twitter following unless they are being hired to write very, very short things.
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Old 01-02-2018, 12:24 PM   #25
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Being a cocksucker who can't answer a well thought out post and instead goes to "...you mad bro?" is pretty much par the course with you and all your ilk.
I do that plenty, with links to back it up as well. Can't say the same for you though since half of your posts are simply personal attacks on people while you whine and cry about personal attacks. You're as much a Whiny SJW piece of shit as Jaz mr registered republican.
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Old 01-02-2018, 02:59 PM   #26
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I'm curious if this is fact or speculation. I ask because you don't write about this sounding as though you have ever hired anyone or dealt with eeoc hiring laws. Having said that, it seems that no writer should ever be hired based on a twitter following unless they are being hired to write very, very short things.
It is , sadly, somewhat true. Although claiming that they werenít hired for their writing ability is complete BS. The lady they hired to write that astonishingly bad Mockingbird series was an award winning author who had never read a comic book before. She had only read Matt Fractionís Hawkeye series, which she claimed to love, before writing the project. Tenihisi Coates was an award winning author with no comic book experience when he was handed Black Panther.

This may get people all set up to buy a box of Tiki Torches, but itís really nothing new. Marvel and DC have been getting faint at the idea of reflected glory from award winning creatives from other industries for years. Alan Heinberg, who created Young Avengers, was given the keys to the store and Carte Blanche because he wrote for Sex and The City. J. Michael Strazynski was given the red carpet treatment because of his work with Baby;on 5 (although he had created Rising Stars by this point, so heís the only one in the list with actual comics experience.) Brad Metzler over at DC was able to write the astonishingly bad Infinite Crisis because he was an esteemed novelist. Tom King is killing it in the comics industry with no track record or experience after jumping over from the novel world.

So, it is what it is. The comic book industry is the pro wrestling of the literary world. Itís slmost entirely driven by stunts and carnival drama. The only difference betweeen what Marvel has done in the past 3cyears and any other year before it is that itís stepping on some people irrational politics and so that makes them mad.
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Old 01-02-2018, 04:11 PM   #27
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When you're this mad about changes in comics, Marvel must have been doing something right.
This is truly, mind-bogglingly idiotic. Comics are entertainment. They're "doing something right" by pissing off their customers? LOL! Progressive thinking is so...strange. And stupid.
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Old 01-02-2018, 04:11 PM   #28
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The only difference betweeen what Marvel has done in the past 3cyears and any other year before it is that it’s stepping on some people irrational politics and so that makes them mad.
What is irrational is being annoyed or confused when people push back and revel in the schadenfreude at this moment then blame the boogyman of "irrational politics" for why people don't like it.

It's like saying, "People stopped eating at McDonald's because they replaced their meat paddies in the Big Mac with veggie paddies after talking with PETA. Idiots and their irrational politics!"

We have a company who has been warned for years (and has actual metrics) they are going to lose business and their SJW experiments fail. Yet they insist on altering characters at the hands of controversial left to extreme alt-left creators or pandering at the idol of diversity.

Is 2018 the year the Marvel Print division finally "gets it" or if they will, as Vox Day says, double down?
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Old 01-02-2018, 04:58 PM   #29
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What is irrational is being annoyed or confused when people push back and revel in the schadenfreude at this moment then blame the boogyman of "irrational politics" for why people don't like it.

It's like saying, "People stopped eating at McDonald's because they replaced their meat paddies in the Big Mac with veggie paddies after talking with PETA. Idiots and their irrational politics!"

We have a company who has been warned for years (and has actual metrics) they are going to lose business and their SJW experiments fail. Yet they insist on altering characters at the hands of controversial left to extreme alt-left creators or pandering at the idol of diversity.

Is 2018 the year the Marvel Print division finally "gets it" or if they will, as Vox Day says, double down?
You are missing my point.

What if I told you that marvel was going to take a long-standing white character in permanently change their race in all media and never look back. Do you think there would be pitchforks? People calling marble SJW lunatics? OK, what if I told you that character was Psylocke and she spent years as the white lady before she was ever an Asian lady. What if I told you that the X-Men we're going to be replaced in their normal book and sent to another book, and that the replacements will all be immigrants? Well it happened in all new all different X-Men number one. Storm is from Africa. Wolverine is from Canada. Nightcrawler is from Germany. Banshee is from Ireland. Colossus is from Russia. All these RSJW fan favorites and mostly all anybody knows of the X-Men.

What if I told you that a black female character was going to be a white man and one on one come back for leadership of a marvel book? Bryan Michael Ben does ruining comics? No the X-Men story from 20 something years ago where storm beats cyclops for leadership of the X-Men.

Your analogy about McDonald's and vegan hamburgers doesn't hold water because it presupposes that McDonald's is changing the way they have always operated. This is not the way with marvel comics. These kinds of stories have existed longer than I have been alive. Male characters have become female. Gay relationships have taken place. Transsexual characters have existed. I actually just ran across one in Keith Giffens Legion of superheroes from the mid 80s.

Margot was doing with they have always done and it's the politics that have changed around them. It's like when right wing people trying to boycott Star Wars because they said it was a hit piece against George Bush and the Iraq war despite the story being told being created during the Vietnam war .

So yes, that is irrational politics.
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Old 01-02-2018, 05:00 PM   #30
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This is truly, mind-bogglingly idiotic. Comics are entertainment. They're "doing something right" by pissing off their customers? LOL! Progressive thinking is so...strange. And stupid.
What is truly, mind-boggling idiotic, is how you can't tell the difference between present and past tense. Aren't you a teacher or something? So dumb.
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Old 01-02-2018, 05:00 PM   #31
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Sorry that last post was dictated to my phone so there are many mistakes.
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Old 01-02-2018, 05:01 PM   #32
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Sorry, that last post was dictated to my phone so there are many mistakes.
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Old 01-02-2018, 09:27 PM   #33
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So dumb.
lol, your interpretation of his statement is charitable to say the least. His statement: "When you're this mad about changes in comics, Marvel must have been doing something right" does not lend itself instantly to an interpretation that is critical of Marvel's changes and supportive of those angry at their stupid changes. It does in fact lend itself to multiple potential interpretations, and knowing his progressive-pushing post history here I'm inclined to be less charitable than you and to see his statement as supportive of their rudderless idiocy and pissing off of their customer base: i.e. 'When you're this mad about changes in comics, Marvel must have been doing something right to have made you mad.'

If he wishes to clarify his statement, he may do so. My interpretation is perfectly plausible given his post history AND the construction (grammatically and rhetorically) thank you. So dumb of you. Happy New Year; DIAF.
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Old 01-02-2018, 10:29 PM   #34
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I finally itemized my 500 or so comics for sale, The thought of buying more horrifies me.
I do love my kobo e-reader! So many comic book scans on one device, its great. 32gb. I got tired of marvel right around the First civil war, and the killing of the ultimate universe, which i actually really enjoyed. The Joe Quesada Wolverine Run 157-189 was my favorite evar, and the reboot after that had such bad art i was so done. I wish the marvel characters were interesting nowadays, See iceman in Age of Apocalypse... Super Badass! Nigh Unkillable.
There is nothing interesting about gay iceman who still does not know how to use his powers properly. North Star is a gay canadian superhero that nobody really cared about. The characters need to be more interesting than just gay, and the stories need to be more oriented towards adults.
I remember the marvel "MAX" line of comics, such as "punisher max" super brutal and awesome. Deadpool movie is successful because it was not for the kiddies.

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Old 01-02-2018, 10:59 PM   #35
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You are missing my point.
No, I believe you continue to miss the point.

Your arguments hinge on how the linked article is written by a moron because this is the "MO" of Marvel and branding the Scarlet Letter of "irrational politics" on anyone who is seeing anything significant.

However you fail to provide any examples which
  1. Provide examples where the actual business plan seems to have been to chase the social justice angle
  2. Prove the social justice pitch itself has generated the success
In the cases cited by the, admittedly propaganda-like but still factually accurate, article these were precisely reasons for decisions.

BTW good job stripping all context from the examples. You've got a little bit of a propagandist in you too!

Furthermore you seem to think people enjoying the results of these books failing find no value in social progression and have no social awareness. In this case the delivery and messenger is as much a problem as the message.

The books weren't created to serve FANS. They were created to serve a message and an agenda which is what makes the decision to kill them feel validating to the fans. Which is why we (presumably many of us were/are fans) are celebrating that something we cared something about was preserved or at least not further perverted.

Your 1st and 3rd example shows readers are not resistant to change nor deaf to social progress. In fact evidence of a fair number of characters and their popularity shows comic readers, like gamers, are more egalitarian than the mass market would have you believe.

What they don't like is Marvel cannibalizing the heroes themselves in service to the message. This has failed repeatedly and more frequently in recent years. Messages, like heroes, need to be able to stand on their own merits.

I'm confused as why there seems to be so much resistance to this response from Marvel and other creators. People are open to new. To QUALITY new.

The ALL NEW X-Men survived on the strength of the new characters in the roster. Today it's just as likely they would change each of the original team to something different. Angel becomes an otherkin Wolverine, Iceman becomes the Black African Weather Witch, and so on.

The second example further proves the point. Commiting one way or another actually stops Psylocke from making progress as a character at all in the last 20ish years. She'll never be more complicated than the Psychic Ninja because to step in any direction potentially forces retconning and other residual effects not to mention political fallout.

The change of leadership between Cyclops and Storm was not as much about social justice as you'd like to think as much about about Summers losing his grip and the leadership void being resolved organically in the way X-Men tackles social issues.
  • Unlike our Red Skull monologue from the latest Captain America comics
  • A Black Panther comic written by a black supremacist isn't organic it is a political statement
  • Iceman being gay isn't organic, it's a political statemen
  • Hiring a queer writer of color to say you have a queer writer of color on staff... is a political statement
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Old 01-03-2018, 12:55 AM   #36
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I do that plenty, with links to back it up as well. Can't say the same for you though since half of your posts are simply personal attacks on people while you whine and cry about personal attacks. You're as much a Whiny SJW piece of shit as Jaz mr registered republican.
You can think whatever stupid, inane bullshit you want. Looks like you have all your life with little guidance in what it means to be a fucking human being. Instead you prefer to be a racist, sexist, homophobic piece of shit that must be a fucking blast at parties. Just because I don't give into my fear of others doesn't mean I am not any less of a conservative or republican than you. I just have the courage to let others do whatever the fuck it is they want to do because it doesn't mean shit to me and it DOESN'T HURT ME. I mean ALL of you stupid fuckers, the whole fucking country. Oh sure, bring up your breitbart links, and your psychology links showing how it's effecting me and (oh noes) THE CHILDREN!!!! (as if you give a shit)

This country could take a dive tomorrow and I wouldn't give a shit. I could take care of myself, I would survive. I don't speak out because of some liberal, sjw bullshit that is rotting in the back of my brain. I do it because many of you conservatives are just as much big pussies and cowards as a the SJW, liberal "scum" you fear so much. If this country can't stand on the foundations of it's forfathers and people have become so stupid that they elect people like Trump who talk about having bigger nuke buttons than the "other guy", then this country should fucking be tipped off into the ocean and started over again because it's obvious it lacks in ANY mode of self preservation.
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Old 01-03-2018, 04:28 AM   #37
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This is truly, mind-bogglingly idiotic. Comics are entertainment. They're "doing something right" by pissing off their customers? LOL! Progressive thinking is so...strange. And stupid.
The only big thing Marvel did wrong in recent memory is OMD. And not letting Gwen Stacy stay dead, even if it might have been a fakeout or something.

Actually they should just do another story like the one where it turns out Gwen Stacy banged Norman Osborn so that people can stop looking back at the story of her death, unless it is to laugh at it, as it is one of the best sets of comedy in comics by now.
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Old 01-03-2018, 05:13 AM   #38
Terran
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The only big thing Marvel did wrong in recent memory is OMD. And not letting Gwen Stacy stay dead, even if it might have been a fakeout or something.
The "only" big thing? As I thought; my interpretation of your statement was correct. You're congratulating them on pissing off customers, lol.

Hey Hagetaka: SO DUMB!

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This country could take a dive tomorrow and I wouldn't give a shit.
Another progressive patriot.

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people like Trump who talk about having bigger nuke buttons than the "other guy"
Obama: “We could, obviously, destroy North Korea with our arsenals.”

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Old 01-03-2018, 05:28 AM   #39
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You can think whatever stupid, inane bullshit you want. Looks like you have all your life with little guidance in what it means to be a fucking human being. Instead you prefer to be a racist, sexist, homophobic piece of shit that must be a fucking blast at parties. Just because I don't give into my fear of others doesn't mean I am not any less of a conservative or republican than you. I just have the courage to let others do whatever the fuck it is they want to do because it doesn't mean shit to me and it DOESN'T HURT ME. I mean ALL of you stupid fuckers, the whole fucking country. Oh sure, bring up your breitbart links, and your psychology links showing how it's effecting me and (oh noes) THE CHILDREN!!!! (as if you give a shit)

This country could take a dive tomorrow and I wouldn't give a shit. I could take care of myself, I would survive. I don't speak out because of some liberal, sjw bullshit that is rotting in the back of my brain. I do it because many of you conservatives are just as much big pussies and cowards as a the SJW, liberal "scum" you fear so much. If this country can't stand on the foundations of it's forfathers and people have become so stupid that they elect people like Trump who talk about having bigger nuke buttons than the "other guy", then this country should fucking be tipped off into the ocean and started over again because it's obvious it lacks in ANY mode of self preservation.
The forefather foundations include the Bill of Rights and US Constitution. 2 documents I'm sure you couldn't give two shits about. All we need to slide into the ocean is Comiefornia, and you can take your sanctuary illegals with you as you slide off into oblivion. Halting illegal immigration and the Islam invasion of the west are completely all about self preservation you fucking idiot. Draining the corrupt DC Swamp of both parties is also about self preservation. But hey please continue to lecture us about how shitty the USA is. Please you precious little limpwristed pussy you.
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Old 01-03-2018, 06:33 AM   #40
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Marvel was hiring writers based on their skin color and oppression scale and not based on their writing ability. The America Chavez writer was hired for being a puerto rican gay person and her twitter following. The comics have become not fun, they lack action and are just preaching. Panels and panels with just faces and tons of text. Not a surprise they don't sell.
Pretty much that's where things are now. It started with Marvel hiring cheap writers and artists because the established and more talented ones are comparatively expensive. The fact the cheap hires are also talentless SJWs was interpreted as a bonus by the higher ups who base their decisions on Twitter narratives. Fans always ask "What happened to all the greats? Don't they still make comics?" Well, yeah. But nobody will pay them except maybe Image or some one shots. The guys I know are very bitter about it.
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