Evil Avatar  



Go Back   Evil Avatar > Games, Games, Games > Console Games

» Sponsored Links


» Recent Threads
Black Adam To Get...
Last post by Chimpbot
Today 02:14 PM
11 Replies, 750 Views
Nintendo Confirms No...
Last post by vallor
Today 01:53 PM
45 Replies, 1,752 Views
John Wick: Chapter 2...
Last post by PacerDawn
Today 01:47 PM
10 Replies, 1,211 Views
Gaming & Movie Deals:...
Last post by Emabulator
Today 01:27 PM
6 Replies, 2,706 Views
Research Firm Predicts...
Last post by Emabulator
Today 01:04 PM
0 Replies, 347 Views
It’s Mighty Morphin’...
Last post by Terran
Today 12:56 PM
22 Replies, 1,089 Views
Anne Hathaway does the...
Last post by Anenome
Today 12:43 PM
10 Replies, 1,328 Views
Hugh Jackman Slices &...
Last post by Anenome
Today 12:24 PM
29 Replies, 1,719 Views
» Promotion


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-04-2017, 11:49 AM   #41
SacredWeasel
Evil Dead
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 643
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terran View Post
Heretic! I for one LOVE turn-based gameplay and cannot STAND real-time-strategy crack-addict-clickathon titles.
Not to mention turn based games have been around since the dawn of civilization and aren't going to ever disappear regardless of how fancy the graphics we can render.

On topic, I agree with every award here except Doom, I really enjoyed what I played of that.
SacredWeasel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2017, 12:27 PM   #42
Evil Avatar
Citizen Game
 
Evil Avatar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 29,515
Blog Entries: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dag-Sabot View Post
-You forgot tom clancy's the division. The game that tried to divide by zero.
I couldn't really find a place to put The Division. Best MMO that we only played for a week? Best Shooter with only one Enemy?
__________________
I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
Evil Avatar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2017, 12:30 PM   #43
Evil Avatar
Citizen Game
 
Evil Avatar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 29,515
Blog Entries: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by SacredWeasel View Post
Not to mention turn based games have been around since the dawn of civilization and aren't going to ever disappear regardless of how fancy the graphics we can render.

On topic, I agree with every award here except Doom, I really enjoyed what I played of that.
I thought DOOM had some of the best graphics of any game I have ever played. I loved the levels and the enemies, their art team is just balls-to-the-wall amazing, but that gameplay just stunk up the place.

It's all the same bit over and over. You go down a short hallway and then they lock the door behind you and spawn 40 - 50 enemies. Walk down another short hallway and do the same thing.

I played the whole game because I was enjoying the artwork so much, but the gameplay was literally the worst game I've ever played. I honestly think I got more fun out of Colonial Marines or Trespasser than DOOM.
__________________
I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
Evil Avatar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2017, 04:22 PM   #44
Emabulator
The Voight-Kampff
 
Emabulator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The Garden State
Posts: 27,902
Blog Entries: 58
GotY Wars:


Shacknews: Game of the Year 2016 #1: Doom

Quote:
In 2016, though, one game has stood taller than the rest. Developed by id Software, and published by Bethesda Games, Doom breathed new life into the stagnation of the first-person shooter genre and helped revive the industry’s love for fast-paced, hard-hitting action and gore. Last week, before our break, the staff all sat down together to talk about why Shacknews loves Doom, and what the game means to us as a site.
Emabulator is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2017, 07:02 PM   #45
Anemone
Evil Dead
 
Anemone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Autarchist
Posts: 5,517
Blog Entries: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terran View Post
Heretic! I for one LOVE turn-based gameplay and cannot STAND real-time-strategy crack-addict-clickathon titles.
There's always someone who loves outmoded genres--RTS is outmoded as well tbh.

But few kids today will ever go back and play the old TB or RTS games we played. They just don't hold up that well. I can go back and play them for nostalgia sake, but it's hard to quantify how much nostalgia makes them playable versus someone coming to them fresh.

We simply had no choice back then. But imagine putting Dragon Warrior up against Skyrim today, why would you ever go back.

Come to think of it, a remake of Dragon Warrior in 3D like Skyrim would probably be boss.
__________________
Choose your government: the majority ruling the minority, the minority ruling the majority, or everyone ruling themselves long as they do not initiate force, fraud, or theft against one another.
Anemone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2017, 08:06 PM   #46
screwyluie
Evil Dead
 
screwyluie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,091
Uhm maybe you haven't heard of StarCraft 2? Or even something like DotA/LoL which were born from StarCraft, while not traditional RTS and well deserving of their own genre, it's still very much the same. These are some of the of not the most popular games in the world.

As for dragon quest* vs Skyrim, I'll take dragon quest. Skyrim, like all the elder scrolls games have not amused me enough to finish a single one of them. They are also nothing like dragon quest so I'm really not sure why you compared them but to put the icing on the cake I spent 4 hours today before work playing dragon quest with my oldest daughter and we had a blast, gonna play it again tomorrow.
__________________
2016 PAX East
2016 PAX West
screwyluie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2017, 09:34 PM   #47
JazGalaxy
Evil Dead
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,752
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anemone View Post
There's always someone who loves outmoded genres--RTS is outmoded as well tbh.

But few kids today will ever go back and play the old TB or RTS games we played. They just don't hold up that well. I can go back and play them for nostalgia sake, but it's hard to quantify how much nostalgia makes them playable versus someone coming to them fresh.

We simply had no choice back then. But imagine putting Dragon Warrior up against Skyrim today, why would you ever go back.

Come to think of it, a remake of Dragon Warrior in 3D like Skyrim would probably be boss.
Ugh.

You're espousing the gaming opinion that I dislike more than any other, right now.

If something is fun, it's always fun. Period. It doesn't get "out-dated". Does technology change? sure. But game design doesn't.

My 8 year old niece just spent hours over the christmas break playing the NES Mini with my brothers and I. She had a blast.

I didn't see Casablanca until last year. You know what? It's a truly phenomenal film. I loved in in a way that I don't love most modern films. Is it outdated technically? Of course. But that has nothing to do with the artistry or believability of the characters.

Popular, NEW games come out with "out-dated" graphics. In fact, I think most young people would see it as purely a design choice rather than due to technical limitations BECAUSE 8-bit graphics are so prevalent now. There's even some in Final Fantasy XV.

No, games like RTS aren't less popular now because they were dated or "we didn't have anything else". The reality is that RTS is a niche genre. It's no different than punk music, ska music, swing music, emo music or millennial folk music. That stuff comes and goes. It trendy. It's fashion. It will have it's core audience, but most people are just in it because it's trendy to be into it at the time. When the trend fades, the core audience who made it a thing in the first place will still be there. Everyone else will be off to the next fad.

What most gamers don't want to admit is two things: 1) Gaming didn't grow because more people got into gaming, gaming grew because gaming changed to be more like what people like. 2) Many, many gamers who think they are "hardcore" are really not. They're populist. They like the gaming equivalent of pop-music. They would never admit it, but they do. Unchallenging, disposable, pretty, glitzy pop-music games.

And just like there's people who refuse to listen to that and instead listen to sub-culture music, so too are there people who aren't attracted to glitzy AAA games and instead prefer subculture games. "Punk rock" games. "Techno" games. "Swing" games. "Classical" games.

But those audiences will always be smaller than the pop music games.

Heck, look at Final Fantasy. FF started out as a technical strategy game that favored numbers and reading. That was never going to go anywhere. So as the games have progressed, they have done away with any intellectual barrier to entry, increased the glitz, poured on the celebrities and explosions, and their sales have increased to reward them.
JazGalaxy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2017, 09:35 PM   #48
Anenome
Autarchist
 
Anenome's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Recursion City
Posts: 49,584
Blog Entries: 62
Sorry, I meant Dragon Warrior on the NES compared to Skyrim.

Starcraft/DOTA is a good point, but I think they survive by being a damn entertaining game. After they're gone, will those genres survive? Maybe, maybe not. I would expect RTS to make the leap to VR and pointing interfaces well enough.
__________________
Choose your government: the majority ruling the minority, the minority ruling the majority, or everyone ruling themselves long as they do not initiate force, fraud, or theft against one another.
Anenome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2017, 09:40 PM   #49
Anenome
Autarchist
 
Anenome's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Recursion City
Posts: 49,584
Blog Entries: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazGalaxy View Post
If something is fun, it's always fun. Period. It doesn't get "out-dated". Does technology change? sure. But game design doesn't.
That is not really innately true, because games of the past could've been groundbreaking for their day, but also can be greatly superseded by later developments in that genre.

A great case of this is undoubtedly Goldeneye 007 on the N64, absolutely gigantically popular game in its day that I am sorry if anyone did not spend a few hundred hours with friends playing.

But go back and try to play it today and its clunky control scheme is virtually unplayable by modern standards. Standards do change and can recast games of the past.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JazGalaxy View Post
My 8 year old niece just spent hours over the christmas break playing the NES Mini with my brothers and I. She had a blast.
Many NES games hold up upon replay, especially Nintendo-made games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JazGalaxy View Post
And just like there's people who refuse to listen to that and instead listen to sub-culture music, so too are there people who aren't attracted to glitzy AAA games and instead prefer subculture games. "Punk rock" games. "Techno" games. "Swing" games. "Classical" games.

But those audiences will always be smaller than the pop music games.
Not sure that's true at least in the case of turn-based games, which are largely a dead control-scheme today, despite the RPG's other aspects becoming ubiquitous.
__________________
Choose your government: the majority ruling the minority, the minority ruling the majority, or everyone ruling themselves long as they do not initiate force, fraud, or theft against one another.
Anenome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2017, 09:57 PM   #50
JazGalaxy
Evil Dead
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,752
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anenome View Post
That is not really innately true, because games of the past could've been groundbreaking for their day, but also can be greatly superseded by later developments in that genre.

A great case of this is undoubtedly Goldeneye 007 on the N64, absolutely gigantically popular game in its day that I am sorry if anyone did not spend a few hundred hours with friends playing.

But go back and try to play it today and its clunky control scheme is virtually unplayable by modern standards. Standards do change and can recast games of the past.


Many NES games hold up upon replay, especially Nintendo-made games.


Not sure that's true at least in the case of turn-based games, which are largely a dead control-scheme today, despite the RPG's other aspects becoming ubiquitous.
While I'm sure a lot of people would agree with your Goldeneye assessment, I'm just not one of those people. Not only do I still find Goldeneye to be extremely fun, I only ever played Perfect Dark on emulation... using my keyboard.

Part of the reason why people don't like going back to older games has little to do with them being out-dated and much more to do with them simply not liking change or difference. Is the Goldeneye control scheme clunky? A little. But so is Hockey, which is soccer that you play... on ice. The point is that adapting to a different control scheme should never be considered a negative. It's just different. What's wrong with different?

We see people's aversion to different playing out now with FPS games. A significant number of people think every FPS game, now, should include jet packs, wall running, etc. Even World War One games. One would think that difference should be a GOOD thing, but you hear people complain about it non-stop.

We saw the same thing before with MMOs. When WoW was at the top of the charts, everyone critiqued every new MMO by demanding that it be exactly like WOW. Nevermind if it was trying to do something different or solve different problems, they wanted it to be more like what they were familiar with.

This is all trendy design, which is very different from good design.
JazGalaxy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2017, 11:19 PM   #51
screwyluie
Evil Dead
 
screwyluie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,091
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anenome View Post
Sorry, I meant Dragon Warrior on the NES compared to Skyrim.

Starcraft/DOTA is a good point, but I think they survive by being a damn entertaining game. After they're gone, will those genres survive? Maybe, maybe not. I would expect RTS to make the leap to VR and pointing interfaces well enough.
Yeah, aka dragon quest outside the US. That is the one I was talking about. Just setup a retropie gaming station for the kids and first thing we played was dragon warrior on the NES... Top down arpg, killing slimes, etc. No idea how you relate that to Skyrim except that they both have swords, armor and magic.

These games and games like them aren't going anywhere no matter what you think. And new games don't replace old games, that's not how this works or mancala, checkers, chess, and go would've disappeared long ago.
Games last, new games don't replace old games, they coexist. Fun is eternal.
__________________
2016 PAX East
2016 PAX West
screwyluie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2017, 06:50 AM   #52
PacerDawn
Choadwanger
 
PacerDawn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 2,371
I mentioned one of the greatest turn-based games of all time earlier, one that I still play today. Master of Magic. I also play Master of Orion II as well, just not quite as often. I also still play my Star Wars Battle Command electronic game from time to time.

I think "Fun" is being mixed in with "Nostalgia" here. Games who have gameplay that is fun will always be fun. Nostalgic games, on the other hand, usually do not stand up to the test of time.

Also, a lot of nostalgic games are age based, which means they are meant to be outgrown. I still love playing Command HQ non-stop to this day for example. Mickey's ABCs and 123s? 2-3 hours tops and I'm bored.
__________________
"I love to go down to the schoolyard and watch all the little children jump up and down and run around yelling and screaming because they don't know I'm only using blanks."
-Emo Phillips

Last edited by PacerDawn; 01-06-2017 at 08:21 AM..
PacerDawn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2017, 01:56 PM   #53
Anemone
Evil Dead
 
Anemone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Autarchist
Posts: 5,517
Blog Entries: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by screwyluie View Post
dragon warrior on the NES... Top down arpg, killing slimes, etc. No idea how you relate that to Skyrim except that they both have swords, armor and magic.
Ding, ding, ding! DWarrior is essentially trying to make Skyrim back when all that was possible was DWarrior-style visuals and play-style.

Quote:
Originally Posted by screwyluie View Post
These games and games like them aren't going anywhere no matter what you think. And new games don't replace old games, that's not how this works or mancala, checkers, chess, and go would've disappeared long ago.
Games last, new games don't replace old games, they coexist. Fun is eternal.
I sincerely doubt that the 8-bit aesthetic will survive into our grandchildren's era of gaming. It survives now mainly because so many people lived through it.
__________________
Choose your government: the majority ruling the minority, the minority ruling the majority, or everyone ruling themselves long as they do not initiate force, fraud, or theft against one another.
Anemone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2017, 02:55 PM   #54
Capt_Thad
Do a Barrell Roll
 
Capt_Thad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 5,455
Wait, real-time and turn-based strategy games are just gonna fizzle out and vanish? Isn't that all strategy games? A 'genre' that's persisted for thousands of years? Like we'll wake up one day and people will be all, "Board games? Card games? Nah, I don't want to deal with anything that makes me wait turns and plan ahead."

Risk's format might give way to Civ in terms of popularity, in roughly the way you're getting at with Dragon Warrior and Skyrim, but evolution in a genre and an entire way of thinking about how a game is constructed just disappearing are entirely different things. Unless you think we'll evolve to a point where we can approach Strategy games in a manner that is neither turn-based or real-time... like in some sort of weird temporal pocket reality that somehow makes the format more entertaining.
__________________
NNID/GfWL: CaptThad - Raptr - Steam ID
Capt_Thad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2017, 05:06 PM   #55
screwyluie
Evil Dead
 
screwyluie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,091
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anemone View Post
Ding, ding, ding! DWarrior is essentially trying to make Skyrim back when all that was possible was DWarrior-style visuals and play-style.
uhm, no. Still going to completely disagree with you on this.
Quote:
I sincerely doubt that the 8-bit aesthetic will survive into our grandchildren's era of gaming. It survives now mainly because so many people lived through it.
they're still making them, and they're still selling, very well. So perhaps you can look in your crystal ball and tell us when 8bit style games are going to die.
__________________
2016 PAX East
2016 PAX West
screwyluie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2017, 08:59 PM   #56
Anenome
Autarchist
 
Anenome's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Recursion City
Posts: 49,584
Blog Entries: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt_Thad View Post
Wait, real-time and turn-based strategy games are just gonna fizzle out and vanish? Isn't that all strategy games? A 'genre' that's persisted for thousands of years? Like we'll wake up one day and people will be all, "Board games? Card games? Nah, I don't want to deal with anything that makes me wait turns and plan ahead."

Risk's format might give way to Civ in terms of popularity, in roughly the way you're getting at with Dragon Warrior and Skyrim, but evolution in a genre and an entire way of thinking about how a game is constructed just disappearing are entirely different things. Unless you think we'll evolve to a point where we can approach Strategy games in a manner that is neither turn-based or real-time... like in some sort of weird temporal pocket reality that somehow makes the format more entertaining.
That's a good point, but the 8-bit aesthetic is unlikely to remain even if a turn-based / overview playstyle does remain.

Perhaps my attack works more for old game aesthetics than for the gameplay itself.

Chess is a good example, but chess is also very much a military game designed to sharpen tactical powers which can explain its staying power, it has utility beyond mere enjoyment.
__________________
Choose your government: the majority ruling the minority, the minority ruling the majority, or everyone ruling themselves long as they do not initiate force, fraud, or theft against one another.
Anenome is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
pure evil

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:35 PM.