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Old 04-27-2017, 09:20 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Tashtego View Post
The psychological strings that are pulled by these loot box systems are especially good at making people part ways with their money (I assume that Blizzard knows this first hand from Overwatch and Hearthstone). Whether or not it's entirely ethical is kind of a grey area.
Plus, they get you to burn up all your in-game gold with re-rolling when you get a crappy chest. I did that twice on launch day and both times I got better stuff on the re-roll, but in the end I think it was just an easy way for them to con you into burning up your gold on chests instead of putting it into more characters (which gets you more chests).

I won't be doing any more re-rolling. Whatever I get, is what I get.
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Old 04-27-2017, 09:22 AM   #22
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I don't know about that....I have far more skins now than I did before, and it seems like I earn one every hour or so. You couldn't earn them before....could you? I thought it was cash only.
I'm with you. I wasn't willing to pay cash for skins and now I have a ton of them. Sure a lot of what they call skins now is just color variants for the base skins, but at least I'm getting Epic skins for free now instead of paying cash.
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Old 04-27-2017, 10:39 AM   #23
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Exactly. Sure, they'll make some money off their game. I don't have a problem with that. Plus they gave everyone a mega bundle of heroes. That was pretty magnanimous as well. All in all I'm happy with the new system.
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Old 04-27-2017, 11:06 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by wunshot View Post
Exactly. Sure, they'll make some money off their game. I don't have a problem with that. Plus they gave everyone a mega bundle of heroes. That was pretty magnanimous as well. All in all I'm happy with the new system.
I don't mind either. The part that bothers me most is the exclusivity of the shards requires having to deal with getting all the bullshit I don't care about. Emojis, sprays, lines, etc. Let me just buy the fucking things and let others grind the shit out.

I was already giving them money, a fair amount too, and I got fucked in this change including the mega bundle.

Would have been nice to have some appreciation for the whales who kept the game going pre-2.0.

Last edited by vallor; 04-27-2017 at 11:17 AM..
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Old 04-27-2017, 11:27 AM   #25
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I honestly don't understand how you got fucked. They gave us a shit load of loot boxes, and although we can't buy skins outright anymore, your could have bought a couple prior to release if you absolutely had to have them.

Because of the mega bundle and gift boxes I got 16 new heroes, and like 20 new skins. I too have spent my fair share of cash on the game, but I feel stoked to receive so much free stuff. Honestly, they didn't have to give me anything...

The only thing I am bummed about is the announcer packs. Do they drop in boxes? I don't have any at all and I would have spent cash to buy a couple of those if possible. Guess I'll spend my shards on them now.
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Old 04-27-2017, 11:49 AM   #26
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I honestly don't understand how you got fucked. They gave us a shit load of loot boxes, and although we can't buy skins outright anymore, your could have bought a couple prior to release if you absolutely had to have them.
1) Mega pack. I had all the heroes already except Genji and Varian. Mega pack did nothing.
2) Skins. I had all but 10 skins and the master skins already except for the few new ones they added. Of those missing skins I got FIVE skins from my 30ish boxes. Skins I deliberately didn't buy just so I had SOMETHING to get out of the loot boxes after I played this stupid expansion on the PTR.
3) Mounts. I had all the mounts except for the new "hare" mounts and the new color variants.

So, what did 2.0 give to the person who had actively supported the game to the hilt from day 1? Pretty much nothing. I got fucked in 2.0.

Furthermore announcers and the newer skins are so expensive even the dubious "value" of having the few non-emoji, spray, banner, voice line, etc. duplicate items doesn't come close to being able to afford them.

If I, with virtually all the pre-2.0 skins and all the heroes, can't get enough shards to buy one premium skin and an announcer after opening 30 Epic boxes (not the regular loot boxes you can buy) it doesn't bode well. After all those boxes I ended up with ~3,000 shards. Not even enough to buy the one Uther skin I liked (Sulferon Uther: 1600 shards) and get the Brightwing voice announcer (1600 shards).

Btw, yes you can get the announcers out of packs. My friend got one from an Epic chest.
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Old 04-27-2017, 11:52 AM   #27
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I see what you mean. Not sure what they could have done for you though since you already almost have everything.
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Old 04-27-2017, 11:57 AM   #28
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What key does the sprays? And where are all the emoji's? I only see the GG one.
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Old 04-27-2017, 12:48 PM   #29
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I see what you mean. Not sure what they could have done for you though since you already almost have everything.
Just add the option to continue buying cosmetic items with cash as well as shards and would have been just peachy. I would have probably spent another $100 on Tuesday to get the Uther Skin, a bunch of announcer packs and some other skins I hadn't snagged yet.

Instead they've turned me and my deep pockets into an enemy of their game.

I refuses to pay good money to fill up on hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of emojis, portraits, banners, sprays, voice lines, and other useless shit before I can reasonably start getting the currency which allows me to get the items I want.

Why does there need to be 200 portraits? You can only use ONE! I haven't changed mine out from the "reach level 40 in the technical alpha" portrait since forever I'm not going to switch it out for any of the dumb ass "sketch" portraits they can shove out on a daily basis to further bloat their loot chests.
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Old 04-27-2017, 01:18 PM   #30
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There isn't any doubt that some people will spend less cash on the game now because chests are so random, but it also means that you can now get pretty much everything just by playing.

Plus, with this kind of a loot system, Blizzard will be forced to release new content a lot more often or people will end up with everything almost overnight.

It's a Win/Win for the game overall.
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Old 04-27-2017, 01:22 PM   #31
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Sorry you are unhappy, vallor. I'm sure you will find stuff to spend your money on. Heh. Hope to see you in the game though.
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Old 04-27-2017, 02:57 PM   #32
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Sorry you are unhappy, vallor. I'm sure you will find stuff to spend your money on. Heh. Hope to see you in the game though.
There is a silver lining in that the cost of MOST things are fairly low shard wise. It pisses me off that the BEST things are absurdly high.

Again I reference the Brightwing announcer pack and the Uther Skin at 1600 shards (4800 for the announcer and the two tints of Uther). At 100 shards for a normal skin I can suffer through but the other prices are extortionist.

Some other questionable things are almost outside the range of consideration at 400 shards. For people who have been dying of thirst I can see how all of this is feels extremely generous. You've stumbled on an oasis of water and fruit.

And I don't see loot chests coming that often, tbh unless you're leveling up a shitton of low level characters. Frankly my stable of low level characters is pretty slim. Almost everyone I have is level 5 or higher so I don't see a deluge of chests on the way any time soon. This will be the same for a lot of people in the near future too as they power through the first five or so levels of their new characters.

p.s. they do so many things right with this game it is extra frustrating they make this system so boneheaded. I think in Overwatch they never award you a duplicate item so eventually you can collect everything by throwing enough money at the game. I would have been fine with that system here too. I'd just buy and buy knowing eventually I'd have everything again. Instead we have this stupid duplicate->shard system where the conversion is pennies on the dollar compared to the old system.

Last edited by vallor; 04-27-2017 at 03:08 PM..
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Old 04-27-2017, 03:52 PM   #33
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You'll be back! When they release more content you will get over this "Whale Hump" that kinda leaves you without much goodies in the new system and I do think that over time you will end up spending less and playing more.

Sure the only way to get chests is to level characters, but it looks from the way they translated some of my levels that the leveling system is a lot more even now. There isn't this gap between 9 - 10 that is the same size as the first nine levels combined any more.

I was only Level 10 with Murky pre-patch and post-patch he is like Level 15 or 18 now. So, they changed how often you level and how much XP is required.

Plus, as they release new toons and maps, you will be able to start those guys. I used my Gems to buy Genji and he kinda sucks, but at least it's one more character I get to level from Level 1 and I got Lost Vikings in my character Pack so that's a second toon I'm starting all the way from Level 1.
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Old 04-28-2017, 01:20 PM   #34
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I was only Level 10 with Murky pre-patch and post-patch he is like Level 15 or 18 now. So, they changed how often you level and how much XP is required.
I had the same thing with Li-li. I had her about a quarter of the way through 10 and she's at 15 now.

So I blew $50 on loot boxes last night. The results were lower than my original estimate. I originally estimated each box would average about 100 shards in value which would allow, maybe worst case where a person got all dups, to at least forge one skin.

I was off by half; the actual came closer to around 50 with some wild swings. Some, where I got a legendary (character) would be worth 400 where others (which would be all duplicate voice lines or sprays) would be worth 20.

I played all my quest games and earned about 2k gold which was all I allowed myself to use in rerolls. I used this mostly on crates which had 4 commons especially if any of the commons were duplicates (and only worth 5 shards). Keep in mind 50 crates gives 400 opportunities to get good stuff.

Based on my estimate that 100 shards = ~$1 in value (what I'd value a skin tint since that's the cost of a basic skin) I basically broke even with 23 skins (mostly the master skin tints I hadn't gotten previously), one announcer, and flat out shards plus duplicates recycled into shards. All told I got about $50 in value between skins, shards, and the announcer.

So from the 400 potential items from the 50 crates and I got 25 valuable things and enough shards I can buy up to 25 more valuable things (assuming I buy the cheapest skins).

I also got over 150 portraits, lines, emojis, and sprays I could give a rip about.

Is 25% good enough from a lottery box system worth while? Of course it would be a lot better for a newbie who had little or nothing but this will hit diminishing returns for me. It might be an interesting experiment to continue with to find out how it continues to trend.

Last edited by vallor; 04-28-2017 at 01:31 PM..
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Old 04-28-2017, 01:51 PM   #35
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Yea, I think you estimate value a lot different from me. I get all my value out of this game by playing it to earn gold to buy items, not from spending cash. When I spend cash, I buy new PS4 games or toys or Batman stuff for my office at work.

That is why I play this so much, without earning that gold I can't get any new items.

It sounds like you spend your cash to have cool items to play with while you are playing. I've got a lot less stuff for sure and I certainly work harder to get it.
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Old 04-28-2017, 02:11 PM   #36
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Yea, I think you estimate value a lot different from me. I get all my value out of this game by playing it to earn gold to buy items, not from spending cash. When I spend cash, I buy new PS4 games or toys or Batman stuff for my office at work.

That is why I play this so much, without earning that gold I can't get any new items.

It sounds like you spend your cash to have cool items to play with while you are playing. I've got a lot less stuff for sure and I certainly work harder to get it.
Yeah, I'm a digital collector. I work a lot of hours so have fewer hours to game. The trade off for time<>money works out better for me in most F2P games which rely on time sinks to throttle the currency and gate the speed of acquiring items. And for cosmetics there's no pay to win so it doesn't really matter.

That's one thing I'll miss most about master skins to begin with and why I was so happy with my Li-Li master skin, I put so much time into playing her I got the skin and it was the visible manifestation of prestige.

There isn't really anything like that in the game.
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Old 04-28-2017, 02:40 PM   #37
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There isn't really anything like that in the game.
Just the scoreboard when you lay down a whooping because of all your experience.
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Old 04-29-2017, 09:07 AM   #38
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1) Mega pack. I had all the heroes already except Genji and Varian. Mega pack did nothing.
The mega packs are mostly designed to get new players into the game. When I started playing back at launch there were a lot fewer characters and I've been able to unlock a lot of them with just the gold that I've earned from playing. For a new player this simply won't be possible with how frequently they release new characters. The idea is to get as many people who are coming to check out the 2.0 stuff to stay as is possible. I do wish that they had made the bundles more expensive and given us more gems -- so if they gave us 500 gems and the bundles cost 500 -- that way you could skip the bundles and keep more gems if you had a lot of heroes.

Quote:
So, what did 2.0 give to the person who had actively supported the game to the hilt from day 1? Pretty much nothing. I got fucked in 2.0.
I mean, did you really? All the stuff you payed for is still there. They didn't give you anything in 2.0 -- I don't really see how that's the same as getting 'fucked'. I get the point that you didn't get rewarded specifically for spending money previously, but you still have those items. This sounds like more of a case of new people getting something while you didn't that you getting screwed. Also, those veteran chests that you got were worth a lot more than a regular chest, so that's something.

I do agree that for people who like to collect everything the new system hurts. The new system makes it easy to get 'stuff' but hard to get what you really want -- there is no denying that.

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What key does the sprays? And where are all the emoji's? I only see the GG one.
Default is 'T', I think. You can also press 'X' to bring a up a menu that lets you dance, taunt, spray, and say the selected voiceline (it works like the ping menu). In order to use emojis in game you have to set them up as favorites before hand. I think the only way to do that is to bring them up in the chat menu (there is now an icon next to the chat box) and from there you can right-click -> set as favorite. If you remember the text code for it you can just type it out too. I've also heard that basic emojis are automatically translated for you, ie so if you own the chen sad emoji and type '' while playing chen it will show the chen sad emoji -- haven't confirmed this myself.

Quote:
That's one thing I'll miss most about master skins to begin with and why I was so happy with my Li-Li master skin, I put so much time into playing her I got the skin and it was the visible manifestation of prestige.

There isn't really anything like that in the game.
Apparently your taunts change with character level. This was implemented to replace the master skin system. It has not bee well received, as most agree it isn't a good equivalent to having master skins. Honestly I'm not even sure if it's been implemented yet -- the only time I ever taunt is at the beginning of games waiting for the gates to open.
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