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Old 12-18-2018, 05:33 PM   #81
PatrickRes9
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I wasn't claiming that you were in favor of legislation Pat. That was more of a general response to the idea. Sorry if I didn't word that clearly.


I'm not saying that you don't debate the issue. Of course we should. And we should not only vote with our wallets but we must guide our kids to do the same. I just read a piece over at Techraptor that angered me, not because there are companies out there that are predatory with their lootbox practices. Rather I was angry because it just came across that the author of the article wanted someone to step in and do the job that is his by the very nature of the fact that he's father to his son. He rightly brought up that kids are terrible at managing impulse control. Of course they are. That's why we have rules like bedtimes, no snacking before meals, setting aside time to get your homework done, etc. Heck, most adults suck at impulse control, that's why we try to set patterns in our lives so we can exercise, take care of our houses, manage our jobs, work on our marriages, etc. Without this work, our impulse control usually sucks and our lives can quickly spiral out of control. But it's up to us to do this for ourselves and our children. It's not up to some government or corporation.

TLDR If we don't like it, we should argue our points and vote with our wallets and maybe even our time and talents. If that doesn't work, then lament the industry that no longer values our cash.
Yah, spot on Chief. I really can't disagree with what you're saying. Be vocal about it if you want. Vote with your wallet. Talk about it. Heck you could even go further and find ways to protest if you really want to, but I do agree that legislation should never replace the role of parenting.

Kids OBVIOUSLY can't practice impulse control and therefore we don't give them access to our credit cards. We also teach them that it's not okay to steal said credit card. If you find out that your child has, there's consequences obviously. The government should be fulfilling exactly no part of that role.
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Old 12-18-2018, 05:34 PM   #82
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Uh damn dude. I'm trying not to judge but I couldn't afford winter tires for our car. I know it's just jealousy. That's the way this amazing free market works. I just haven't worked hard enough in the 16 years I've been in the workforce. If only I weren't such a lazy mooch and pulled myself up by my bootstraps. I must have been lazy somewhere along the road in the countless tireless days of labor I've given to the few various jobs I've had over nearly 2 decades. The countless times the thought of my family gave me the fuel I needed to put in another long week. Some day, if I work hard enough and stop being so lazy with my piddly 50 hours a week, I can reach a point where I too might not only be able to afford winter tires every year, but I can plunk down $10,000 a year on microtransactions! Fuuucckk *facepalm*. Now I'm depressed.
Well, if it makes you feel better I also always buy twice as much food as I will eat at any one meal because when I was a kid I went hungry so often I now make sure there is no chance of it happening again.

We all got problems. I wager if you took a deep look at my life you might take your lack of winter tires as a good trade off. I'm not saying my life hasn't been blessed in at least the financial sense but the grass isn't always greener blah blah blah.
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Old 12-18-2018, 05:39 PM   #83
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Well, if it makes you feel better I also always buy twice as much food as I will eat at any one meal because when I was a kid I went hungry so often I now make sure there is no chance of it happening again.

We all got problems. I wager if you took a deep look at my life you might take your lack of winter tires as a good trade off. I'm not saying my life hasn't been blessed in at least the financial sense but the grass isn't always greener blah blah blah.
I hear ya. Food feels precious to us over here too. Sometimes we spend too much on it, just to feel that security.

And really I am blessed. There's no reason for me to complain. Everyone is healthy in my house mostly. I love my partner. She's something else. Couldn't even begin to describe her. I have a beautiful 6 year old son, who gets me to slow down and focus every day. I AM employed. I have a few long time close friends and we aren't starving. I have budget enough for hobbies , my family's needs, and when things are tight, honestly sometimes the financial pressure builds strength/character. It could be significantly worse.
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Old 12-18-2018, 06:06 PM   #84
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Now I'm depressed.
To the best of my knowledge, he has no wife and/or kids. Could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure of that. Frees up a lot of income!

You have a wife. You have kids. You have something that will see you through to old age and beyond...family.
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Old 12-18-2018, 06:24 PM   #85
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To the best of my knowledge, he has no wife and/or kids. Could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure of that. Frees up a lot of income!

You have a wife. You have kids. You have something that will see you through to old age and beyond...family.
Yep, no wife or kids, no debt either! But also no prospects for a long life (but I still contribute to a 401k for some reason). So $10,000 a year in MTX is pretty easy to come by even with my pretty decent lifestyle.
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Old 12-18-2018, 06:47 PM   #86
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To the best of my knowledge, he has no wife and/or kids. Could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure of that. Frees up a lot of income!

You have a wife. You have kids. You have something that will see you through to old age and beyond...family.
Yahh, temporary lapse in judgement. I've got a great life. I can't complain. My family is everything to me.


Sorry about whatever issues you're dealing with on your side Vallor. And really, good on you for at least having financial stress mostly removed from your life.

I don't know - I'm just not a fan of the state of the industry. Particularly the AAA's. But I can only do what I've been doing. We'll see how the consumer reacts and where the industry goes.
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Old 12-18-2018, 08:15 PM   #87
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Yahh, temporary lapse in judgement. I've got a great life. I can't complain. My family is everything to me.


Sorry about whatever issues you're dealing with on your side Vallor. And really, good on you for at least having financial stress mostly removed from your life.

I don't know - I'm just not a fan of the state of the industry. Particularly the AAA's. But I can only do what I've been doing. We'll see how the consumer reacts and where the industry goes.
Even I agree people like me, who drop $100 - $1000 on a game, should be the rare, rare exception rather than the target. However the game companies are looking to monetize every player to that degree and they are using the worst triggers found in the worst of the realm of addiction to do it.

Red Dead is the least of the problems. There is no randomization and there is little to no grinding in the game. From what I've heard not even I would be that tempted to drop money.

Other games, and god bless the greedly heartless bastards at EA for being on the cutting edge of this, are much better examples. In particular check out how they monetize "Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes" on mobile for why they thought they could get away with what they rolled out initially in BattleFront 2.

At least on mobile the game is Free to Play. Every other platform starts with a $40 - $60 buy-in (or more, internationally) THEN you get psychology doctors, product managers, and data managers figuring out how to track player behavior and what triggers they can flick to trick people's mind into the transaction loop. Artificial rarity, insane windows of availability, gameplay advantages in "Flavor of the Month" bubbles that keep players constantly chasing the current best thing with their dollars but always falling JUST short unless they spend ENOUGH dollars just in time for the next best thing to come out.

It is pretty scary, insidious, and designed so people don't notice it until it is too late. That's why I think regulation wouldn't be entirely unwelcome.

And not by the bullshit ESRB (and the other token ESA). I've been in this industry over 20 years and the ESRB is a figurehead that gets whipped out whenever any meaningful change looks like it may actually happen. The only people who believe what the ESRB shills is politicians as the organization greases their hands.

The ESRB is about as useful a real deterrent as jousting against a fully armored knight with a standard Q-Tip.
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Old 12-19-2018, 04:03 AM   #88
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That's why I think regulation wouldn't be entirely unwelcome.
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Old 12-19-2018, 05:49 AM   #89
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At least on mobile the game is Free to Play. Every other platform starts with a $40 - $60 buy-in (or more, internationally) THEN you get psychology doctors, product managers, and data managers figuring out how to track player behavior and what triggers they can flick to trick people's mind into the transaction loop. Artificial rarity, insane windows of availability, gameplay advantages in "Flavor of the Month" bubbles that keep players constantly chasing the current best thing with their dollars but always falling JUST short unless they spend ENOUGH dollars just in time for the next best thing to come out.
See, this is the problem I have with microtransactions. If they're used as a means of funding an otherwise free game, I can't really complain; they have to make their money somehow, even if I disagree with the predatory game design techniques and tactics they use.



When these tactics are used in games that I actually have to pay for to play, it's just skeezy double-dipping. It's one of the many reasons why I'm likely not going to touch RDR2 Online at all, at this point. I don't even really want to contribute to logging hours in the game.
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Old 12-19-2018, 06:28 AM   #90
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Yahh, temporary lapse in judgement. I've got a great life. I can't complain. My family is everything to me.


Sorry about whatever issues you're dealing with on your side Vallor. And really, good on you for at least having financial stress mostly removed from your life.

I don't know - I'm just not a fan of the state of the industry. Particularly the AAA's. But I can only do what I've been doing. We'll see how the consumer reacts and where the industry goes.
Yeah not being married or having kids tends to create lots of disposable income. Before getting with my very soon to be wife, and by soon I mean we're getting married within the next month or so, I had lots of money to burn and bought more games just out of boredom. Now I'm far more selective in just getting games I know I'm going to put alot of time into, which honestly is much better all around. I have so many games on steam that I've never even played, such a waste of money. That being said I wouldn't trade anything. I got lucky in that sense. It all comes down to priorities really and putting things that actually are important first. Gaming is great, lifelong gamer, I wouldn't trade her for all the games in the world however.
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Old 12-19-2018, 04:31 PM   #91
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So my advice to you? Get the fuck out of my hobby or grow a god damn spine.



Oh now its YOUR hobby is it?

You freaking nub, i was playing Lost Luggage on the 2600 when you were.....(how old are you anyway?)
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Old 12-19-2018, 04:44 PM   #92
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Oh now its YOUR hobby is it?

You freaking nub, i was playing Lost Luggage on the 2600 when you were.....(how old are you anyway?)
Bah you knew what I meant, old Blackzc, old. Old enough to remember when Atari had a division called Atari Coin which eventually became Atari Games when the home division split from the arcade division after being sold off to Warner Communications and eventually Williams/Bally/Midway.
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Old 12-19-2018, 04:46 PM   #93
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Yeah not being married or having kids tends to create lots of disposable income. Before getting with my very soon to be wife, and by soon I mean we're getting married within the next month or so, I had lots of money to burn and bought more games just out of boredom. Now I'm far more selective in just getting games I know I'm going to put alot of time into, which honestly is much better all around. I have so many games on steam that I've never even played, such a waste of money. That being said I wouldn't trade anything. I got lucky in that sense. It all comes down to priorities really and putting things that actually are important first. Gaming is great, lifelong gamer, I wouldn't trade her for all the games in the world however.
Congrats on the coming marriage dude! Same boat here man, and I share the same sentiment. I'd rather have my family than the extra money by a mile.
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Old 12-19-2018, 07:56 PM   #94
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Congrats on the coming marriage dude! Same boat here man, and I share the same sentiment. I'd rather have my family than the extra money by a mile.
Thanks was originally planned for March of next year but I had some family shit that was sprung on me that bumped things up before we were quite ready but that's alright, we'll manage we always do. After 3 years of a long distance relationship with lots of visits and flying in a way it's just as well. Neither one of us needs to travel anymore or deal with the distance. Money is extremely tight due to members of my family being total and utter douchebags but when all is said and done there's a light at the end of the tunnel finally so to speak. Appreciate it it Pat. And I'm with you, family to me is everything, just in my case her family is pretty much what I have for actual relatives now as my actual family with the exception of my ailing mother and a brother, are pretty much dead to me, and really? I'm quite alright with that.
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Old 12-20-2018, 08:54 AM   #95
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Interesting point, because you can buy gold bars and then cash them out and then blow all the money on card games. It wouldn't be gambling though because there is no way to turn in-game money back into real world money.

You can spend all you want, you can't get anything back.
Good point, but aren't the regulations in place on the casino/gaming sector as much about the gambling houses (more, I'd argue, because of hands in the money pot/scale of operations and earnings) than the players. The parties that normally camp this space aren't going to like this kind of thing in video games if they don't get a piece of the "people spending money on games of chance involving winning something of perceived value" pie/have some control. We'll see what happens, I guess.
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