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Old 07-22-2011, 01:54 PM   #1
Emabulator
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Deus Ex: Human Revolution - Purity First Trailer



I'm firmly in the Pro-Augmentation camp.
I'll take a full set of upgrades to go!
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Old 07-22-2011, 02:02 PM   #2
darkwarrior
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TBH It's a good moral dilemma. I like the idea of all the bonuses it provides but it'd be a shame to lose my eyes or hands for that.

I'd do it in a heartbeat for nano-augs though.
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Old 07-22-2011, 03:11 PM   #3
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Great trailer for having zero in-game footage.

I really liked the whole "you need this drug to prevent your body from rejecting the Augs".

Hope this is good - I'm anxious to play it on my new system!
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Old 07-22-2011, 03:44 PM   #4
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Really beginning to get my hopes up on this one.
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Old 07-22-2011, 03:52 PM   #5
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Robojob. Totally worth it.
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Lock is untouchable though, he's too cool to be targeted, like ever. He's Detroit's Heisenberg!
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Old 07-22-2011, 04:32 PM   #6
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i dunno who hacked the site but whoever it is needs a swift and viscous justice. i don't care if it's for the good of all mankind, hacking an evil empire could result in something like my augstation not working for like, a month, and that is absolutely inexcusable in every way. f those terrorists.
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Old 07-22-2011, 04:38 PM   #7
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i'd be pro aug, the whole losing your humanity argument or they can control and track you argument will never trump being able to walk again or use your hands or seeing.

yeah it sucks that you might have to take a drug the rest of your life, but the alternative sucks more.
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Old 07-22-2011, 04:40 PM   #8
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My current New Vegas character is a guy with only 1 luck but otherwise exceptionally well rounded. He represents a "What-if" the FEV (forced evolution virus) had worked as intended on a few rare cases and created these perfect human being, except they lack a soul which is represented by the 1 luck stat.
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Old 07-22-2011, 04:56 PM   #9
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Playthrough 1: "Full augmentation.."
Playthrough 2: "No augmentation.."
Playthrough 3: "Bit of both?"

Meh

I want it, I want it, I want it!
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Old 07-22-2011, 05:54 PM   #10
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TBH It's a good moral dilemma. I like the idea of all the bonuses it provides but it'd be a shame to lose my eyes or hands for that.

I'd do it in a heartbeat for nano-augs though.
I think it's a completely silly conflict. That said, it's perfectly fine to have an implausible premise in any media property. FFVII had an even more implausible premise, didn't stop it from being a good game :P

For instance, there's absolutely no reason to take an anti-rejection drug for implants.

I'm almost embarrassed for them that they decided to include that in the story. Rejection drugs are needed when you're implanting an organ from another human beings.

With metal and plastic implants, there's several metals that simply don't provoke an immune response at all, including titanium and stainless steel, and you couldn't trick people into thinking it was needed either.

Similarly, this idea of human augmentation causing social unrest--maybe if some virulent hyper-religious philosophy sprung up that was anti-machine and preached this nonsense could it become anything like a social issue.

All of which just plays on the smear that the religious must also necessarily be irrationalists, which is patently false. I'd be more concerned if they're smearing christians than inventing a religious movement tho. Christians aren't about to be concerned about augmentation, that's silly.

Neither would there be a need for implants to be net-aware, and you could disable that easily enough.

Still, I do like the theme of a world transitioning between a human and a machine consciousness, where there's strife over the consequences of that. Hmm. Interesting.
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Old 07-22-2011, 06:58 PM   #11
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I think I watched the future in about 15 years from now. Pretty heady stuff and it looks like we will get there in my lifetime.
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Old 07-22-2011, 07:32 PM   #12
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I think it's a completely silly conflict. That said, it's perfectly fine to have an implausible premise in any media property. FFVII had an even more implausible premise, didn't stop it from being a good game :P

For instance, there's absolutely no reason to take an anti-rejection drug for implants.

I'm almost embarrassed for them that they decided to include that in the story. Rejection drugs are needed when you're implanting an organ from another human beings.

With metal and plastic implants, there's several metals that simply don't provoke an immune response at all, including titanium and stainless steel, and you couldn't trick people into thinking it was needed either.

Similarly, this idea of human augmentation causing social unrest--maybe if some virulent hyper-religious philosophy sprung up that was anti-machine and preached this nonsense could it become anything like a social issue.

All of which just plays on the smear that the religious must also necessarily be irrationalists, which is patently false. I'd be more concerned if they're smearing christians than inventing a religious movement tho. Christians aren't about to be concerned about augmentation, that's silly.

Neither would there be a need for implants to be net-aware, and you could disable that easily enough.

Still, I do like the theme of a world transitioning between a human and a machine consciousness, where there's strife over the consequences of that. Hmm. Interesting.
Totally agree. This whole premise is the only thing making me hesitate about buying the game. It's just so silly. Almost as silly as the Megacorp trope itself. I think the quote at that page is worth quoting for effect:
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Who do you think runs Congress? Big Pharma. It's the big pharmaceutical companies, Glenn, that make all the big decisions. Big Pharma paves your roads. Big Pharma delivers your mail. Who do you think teaches your kids how to read? Teachers? Try again: Big Pharma. Big Pharma took us to war in Vietnam, synthesized crack, and killed Kennedy. Big Pharma came from outer space, invented Ben Franklin, started a little company called the Internet, and polluted the ocean with high-fructose corn syrup. We're everywhere, Glenn.
That's pretty much how I see every Megacorp trope XD And the more I learn about things like Sarbanes-Oxley and the Community Reinvestment Act, the more ridiculous the trope gets.
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Old 07-22-2011, 07:54 PM   #13
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> For instance, there's absolutely no reason to take an anti-rejection drug for implants.

Not sure if serious...about hypothetical imaginary drug for hypothetical imaginary implants.
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Old 07-22-2011, 11:06 PM   #14
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I've augmented my toes. It's awesome.
The drug isn't that bad. I ingest it. It tastes like berries.
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Old 07-22-2011, 11:11 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Ruff_Daimont View Post
Playthrough 1: "Full augmentation.."
Playthrough 2: "No augmentation.."
Playthrough 3: "Bit of both?"

Meh

I want it, I want it, I want it!
You will always be augmented no matter what, you can only choose to upgrade them or not.
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Old 07-22-2011, 11:28 PM   #16
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> For instance, there's absolutely no reason to take an anti-rejection drug for implants.
Not sure if serious...about hypothetical imaginary drug for hypothetical imaginary implants.
It's a bit of a reach, even for an imaginary game, when you try to tell me that people need to take a drug so their body doesn't reject mechanical implants.

Implants that, in the real world, have no possibility of rejection.

It's like saying you have to take a drug so your body doesn't reject the food you eat. It's completely nonsensical.

It's bad form to twist reality that far, when you're making a game that projects social issues into the future. The one and only fabrication should be the situation, and everything from there should be as realistic as you can make it in reaction to that situation.

Beyond that, the story is appealing to reality itself in many facets, yet appears to be relying on your extreme naivete in the matter of rejection of implants.

Right now, tons of people live with mechanical implants of various sorts and take no drugs. Why would they imagine a drug is needed at all.
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Old 07-23-2011, 02:21 AM   #17
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> For instance, there's absolutely no reason to take an anti-rejection drug for implants.

Not sure if serious...about hypothetical imaginary drug for hypothetical imaginary implants.
Actually some more advanced cybernetics (not just replacement bones etc) have some of the problems mentioned in the HR lore. The problem isn't as pervasive however as might be seen in the game, or at the very least the stuff that hooks up to nerve endings isn't at the stage where most people would use it when a manual replacement works just as well.

And not to cause a flame war Anenome, but how're you defining irrationalist, exactly? And if I recall the lore also mentions a few pro-aug churches, it's just that the anti-aug movement seems to have decided to tack on the God statements to give themselves legitimacy and horn in on the undecided churches stances, forcing them into the fold so to speak.
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Old 07-23-2011, 06:18 AM   #18
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Similarly, this idea of human augmentation causing social unrest--maybe if some virulent hyper-religious philosophy sprung up that was anti-machine and preached this nonsense could it become anything like a social issue.
Actually, I've a slight disagreement with you here, Anenome. I think it's possible to argue that human augmentation can become a social issue, without referring to hyper-religious fundamentalism. So, first thing's first, I do agree that any painting of religious people as being ipso facto irrationalists is obviously wrong. Granted, some religious people are irrational, but these are usually fundamentalists (of any faith). However, it also does not take a religious fundamentalist to be irrational. There are plenty irrational atheists as well. But all this is beside the main point I want to make: I think it is possible to see where augmentation can be a social issue, without referring to fundamentalism. I think there are at least two ways we can see it as such, one presented in the game, one that is not really touched upon in the game.

The first way is presented in the game, and, admittedly, you've already dispelled it quite a bit. This teaser shows that 1) augmentation is expensive; and 2) for the aug(s) to work properly, people need to take an expensive and addictive drug, which many cannot afford. It also shows that as a direct result of this, there have been riots, and these riots have been met with militant police brutality. On this ground alone, we have non-religiously minded social unrest, due to the controversial nature of augmentation (within the game). Now, you've said that this is most likely outside the realm of actual possibility--drugs are required for organ transplants, and not any sort of 'robotic' transplant (especially those involving titanium). I'll grant you that, definitely. However, since this game does not specify (yet, if ever) how exactly the augmentations work, it is logically possible--that is, it violates no rules of logic (like the rule of non-contradiction, for example)--that they are using a made up metal, that requires a made up process, that would necessitate the use of a highly addictive made up drug. If it is at least logically possible that this is the case, then we've got a space for social unrest concerning the use of augmentation, without strict reference to religious fundamentalism. Religious people (fundamentalist or not) may take umbridge with the social situation as a result of what's happening to those who augment, but cannot afford the drug, however, the unrest does not originate solely from a religious mindset.

The above is only one way in which we may have social unrest due to human augmentation through the use of robotic implants. I can think at least of one more: social augmentation of this caliber could create a much stricter divide between social classes. Let's put it this way: augmentations are not going to be cheap. The best augmentations will always remain quite expensive. This means that only the wealthy elite will be able to afford and maintain the best, most competitive, ones. If only the wealthy elite can afford to receive and maintain the most competitive augmentations, then this kind of augmentation will help create (another?) wedge between the upper class, the middle, and lower classes. Middle class people will most likely remain middle class, with less possibility of upward mobility, and lower class people will more than likely remain lower class, with even less upward mobility than the middle class.

Imagine that you are a major stock holder at a large company. You've been tasked with hiring a new higher-level manager. You've boiled your choice down to two very strong candidates. They're both very well educated, and have impressive resumes. But here's the difference: One has no augmentations whatsoever, while the other has augmented his brain so that he can speak multiple languages, as well as augmenting his frontal cortex, so he can think faster, and more efficiently during times of stress (as might happen while negotiating a big contract with another company, where that other company might be trying to pull a fast one on you). Who now has a likelier chance of getting hired?

Augmentation similar to what's going on in Deus Ex has the possibility of creating a scenario that's similar to what happened in the movie Gattica. Those who augment themselves may slowly move up the social ladder, taking on the higher chairs in most of our social institutions (political, economic, scientific, etc.). Those without augmentation may be seen as invalids, marginalized to take the left-overs of society (provided robots haven't taken this role yet). If this happens, then we again have a scenario of social unrest due in large part to Deus Ex-like augmentation, without any underpinning religious-fundamentalist ravel.

A reaction to a possible criticism: It is true, we already do things to ourselves to augment our abilities. Just about ALL forms of technology are a way of making the things we're already good at better. Augmentation like that of Deus Ex can help cure so many disabilities (loss of sight, loss of a limb, loss of an ability of any kind, etc.). This is true, and I'm certainly not opposed to augmentation of this kind. However, what I've tried to show is that should we start augmenting ourselves when that which we're augmenting is already sufficiently healthy (whatever the definition of "health" is), that's when we'll see these social issues arise, because that's when we'll see, not just the augmentation of our abilities, but also the augmentation of a radicalized social stratification: the wealthy will always remain as such, the middle class will only ever be a buffer between the upper and the lower, and the lower class will have even less of an opportunity to change their situation.
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Old 07-23-2011, 07:08 AM   #19
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Hmm this might kill the game for me. I love all things nano-machine. Throwing a monkey wrench at my nano-machine love like this anti-rejection drug thing...well it might screw the game up the same way the timers screwed up "Dead Rising". An otherwise incredible game destroyed by a stupid play mechanic.

I don't get why developers shoot themselves in the foot this way. Look at GTA, you can screw around to your hearts content until you want to do a mission. Do the mission, return to no timers. I don't mind in-mission timers but, let me explore my open worlds without pressure when I'm not in a mission.

This rejection drug thing seems like another "timer".
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Old 07-23-2011, 08:31 AM   #20
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Looking at the viral website they showed at the end of the trailer it looks like most of the augs are manufactured by some nano process. So they are definately not the standard materials used today for limb replacement.
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