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Old 08-18-2019, 05:13 PM   #1
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Apex Legends producer calls players 'ass-hats' and 'dicks' in heated Reddit thread


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A Reddit thread in which Apex Legends developer Respawn admitted its fairly expensive, complicated Iron Crown Collection Event had "missed the mark" has descended into recriminations and more debate about the relationship between developers and fans.

The thread, which announced changes to the way players obtain Legendary skins during the event, attracted comments from individual Respawn developers, including executive producer Drew McCoy. In the course of the discussion, McCoy called players "ass-hats" and "dicks", and lamented toxicity in the community.

"I've been in the industry long enough to remember when players weren't complete ass-hats to developers and it was pretty neat. I forged a bunch of long lasting relationships from back then," he said in one comment. "Would be awesome to get back there, and not engaging with toxic people or asking 'how high' when a mob screams 'jump' is hopefully a start."
PC Gamer.

I've been in the community long enough to remember when games were released finished and when DLC was released for free because developers appreciated the customer.

Update from Respawn Director Vince Zampella:

Quote:
ďOn Friday, we gave Apex fans an update on how we were changing the Iron Crown event. Some of the team then joined a discussion with our community on Reddit, and things got to a pretty bad place. Some of our folks crossed a line with their comments, and thatís not how we want Respawn o be represented.

I apologize to any of our fans that were offended. I will always stand behind the team here at Respawn and support them on speaking out against some of the toxic and nasty comments being directed at them, including everything from death threats to comments aimed at their family and loved ones. But we shouldnít contribute to it when we do comment, and add to the very thing we want to prevent.

We need to lead by example. Last week we didnít do that, and going forward we will be better. Having an open, healthy relationship with our community is incredibly important to all of us at Respawn.Ē
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Old 08-18-2019, 05:18 PM   #2
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This has blown up big time.

Apparently one of the guys is the Project Lead.

WTF?

How stupid do you have to be? You have a declining player base and people just don't like paying large sums of money for stupid outfits, yet that isn't enough to make you act normal towards people.

Honestly, this is a giant cluster foxtrot the way they handled this.
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Old 08-18-2019, 05:29 PM   #3
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I think this whole thing is a shame. Games like Fortnite and Apex Legends are the predatory DLC model taken to it's ultimate conclusion.

It's everything that has been wrong with gaming for a long time and honestly the sooner the idea of charging people for DLC crashes and burns the better.

We need to get back to when publishers and developers were actually happy to have people purchase their game -- and where they rewarded you for giving them your money. Not where we are now where they just view you as an endless pocketbook to empty out.
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Old 08-18-2019, 06:37 PM   #4
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Not surprising. If there's one thing social media on the Internet has accomplished, it's to make clear how condescending 'elites' from all sectors of society are toward everyday folks who patronize their product, whether politicians about voters, gaming companies about gamers, Hollywood about their audience, etc., etc.. They reveal themselves for who they were all along. Make no mistake, he surely felt the same back then, but he wasn't revealed for thinking it at the time.

Now we know. WE ALL KNOW.
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Old 08-18-2019, 09:14 PM   #5
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We should have known from a long time ago.

Hell, over 15 years ago Milo Cooper famously said (to those who were into MMOs) to the Everquest community "Shut up and give me my ten bucks per month, little man. My Porsche needs some performance upgrades," when someone dared to complain they felt their subscription wasn't giving them the value they expected. He went on to further fame and fortune.

"Let them eat cake," is another famous quote though the speaker ended up with a rather less happy ending. Maybe we need to relearn that lesson, though clearly the French didn't considering the Mommy loving President they have in office and how tame the Yellow Jacket protesters are in dealing with his bullshit.
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Old 08-18-2019, 11:30 PM   #6
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Play the game. If you do not want the "outfit" then don't pay for it. Just play the game with the default outfits and the ones you grind. Its a free game. If you want the shiny outfit then grind or pay. Simple.
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Old 08-19-2019, 12:05 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by vallor View Post
We should have known from a long time ago.

Hell, over 15 years ago Milo Cooper famously said (to those who were into MMOs) to the Everquest community "Shut up and give me my ten bucks per month, little man. My Porsche needs some performance upgrades," when someone dared to complain they felt their subscription wasn't giving them the value they expected. He went on to further fame and fortune.

"Let them eat cake," is another famous quote though the speaker ended up with a rather less happy ending. Maybe we need to relearn that lesson, though clearly the French didn't considering the Mommy loving President they have in office and how tame the Yellow Jacket protesters are in dealing with his bullshit.
Some of us did know this even back then and called it back then too, anyone remember Bethesda and their fucking horse armor? Instead of gamers being smart and not paying for that kind of shit a decade ago, they opened the door for publishers to start nickle and dimming them to death. Had gamers not been so weak the industry never would have shifted to this type of monetization model.
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Old 08-19-2019, 04:18 AM   #8
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Definitely not very professional. It's going to have a negative impact on them. That being said I can't say their wrong either. Because people are terrible, particularly when they can hide behind anonymity.

Here's the full quotes, not out of context click bait from
Quote:
PC Gamer - The Global Authority on PC Games

Quote:
“I've been in the industry long enough to remember when players weren't complete ass-hats to developers and it was pretty neat. I forged a bunch of long lasting relationships from back then. Would be awesome to get back there, and not engaging with toxic people or asking "how high" when a mob screams "jump" is hopefully a start.”
Quote:
Hey everyone - found the dick I was talking about. Guess what, I didn't even read your comment except for the first sentence and last. This kind of garbage doesn't warrant a reply - but lucky for you I already made a comment about this earlier. Go find it.
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There is a wealth of data available on how monetization works in free-to-play games, and we ourselves have run tests by putting skins on sale in the store. The amount of people who spend is crazy low, most of ya'll are freeloaders (and we love that!) and a change in price doesn't move the needle
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So it's fine for you all to call us liars, full of shit, and other personal attacks when we communicate an apology and update to the event but we're "immature" when we call people out on it. Got it.”

“You should work on your reading comprehension.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultas.../#615fdf75f1e6
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Old 08-19-2019, 06:05 AM   #9
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The only thing the dev has done wrong here is engaging with the toxic internet. 99% of people become cunts really quickly when you challenge them and they have a veil of anonymity (hand on heart - myself included).

This is an apparently good game (i haven't played it) which is 'free' and the dev is monetising through paid for, cosmetic dlc, there's nothing wrong with that. Complaining about the quality of your free stuff is just pathetic imo.
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Old 08-19-2019, 06:07 AM   #10
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I guarantee this, if everyone was forced to use their real name and their comments were linked back to a public profile of them then the quality of discourse on the internet would dramatically improve.
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Old 08-19-2019, 06:18 AM   #11
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This has been totally worth Respawn pumping out this FTP piece of shit which allows EA to rape consumers on.

Add in the total shitshow provided by Generation Suck who thinks they are entitled to everything... I mean come on. Absolutely worth not ever getting Titanfall 3.

Fuck it bro, it's free so why not?
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Old 08-19-2019, 07:39 AM   #12
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I am one of those that actually stick to playing a rather small selection of titles that are highly modifiable. I play single titles for years, and draw a huge amount of value out of the modding scene, especially total conversions that completely change the game from the original intentions. That's what I liked about Quake and HalfLife, and also Warcraft3 and Starcraft2 -- I play no other Blizzard games, just for that reason. You also can play Starcraft2 for free by now, you get parts of the single player campaign for free, and all the multiplayer, and most importantly, the Arcade, which is thousands of custom maps/mods. There is also DLC for starcraft2, but in parts it is more meaty with the coop commanders you can buy, and the rest easily ignorable fluff. I do miss the days when Blizzard would give out more free goodies, instead of just DLC now, but because of the thousands of maps by the user base, I don't really mind anyway. The custom maps are really what keeps you going, and some of them are so good, you may even feel compelled to willingly donate a buck to their patreon. What I begrudge most about the so called Free-To-Play titles is that they usually come without modding support, since it's all about what the developer can sell you. You just get so much more value out of good old fashioned modding scene.

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I guarantee this, if everyone was forced to use their real name and their comments were linked back to a public profile of them then the quality of discourse on the internet would dramatically improve.
The ability to speak under the protection of anonymity is probably the most significant feature of a free society and modern democracy.

This is most notable in your ability to vote anonymously at elections. This feature is one of the major hallmarks that make our system work.
The reason is precisely, to protect citizens from the wrath of powerful groups that don't agree with your opinion.
Because there really are entities or groups willing to target individuals for their believes.

One of the most notable problems in totalitarian systems is indeed that people cannot speak under protection of anonymity and live in constant fear because of that.
The quality of discourse there isn't even higher than the toxic bickering on the internet here, since people don't dare stepping on anything which might bring them in trouble. And since people have very different standards for what is offensive, intended or not, and a lot of even plain truth can be in fact very uncomfortable to someone out there, you lose out on a lot of important information that way too.

So the biggest problem these developers here in this example have is actually that in this case they are the only ones that don't have the protection of anonymity.
By the way, here you can also see the double sided edge with "transparency". As much as we often have an interest in transparency of what is going on in the dealings of the powerful, you will also often see certain groups call for transparency for no other reason than being able to target people they don't like.

Obviously there come also problems of abuse with speaking under anonymity. But that is a price to pay for modern freedom. There are also downsides with freedom itself. First, the freedom of others can be annoying to yourself, second, freedom comes at an increased burden of responsibility for your self. All the same, the natural hardship that comes with more freedom for everyone is worth it in comparison to what other people around the world have to deal with instead. So yes, a free life requires a thicker skin towards a possibly rougher environment, and developing that is worth it.

I believe it is still possible for many people to treat each other more fairly at any case. Actually, many people do just that. And they do it, because a more friendly relation and relaxed atmosphere can be a big advantage to those involved. They may spend their time and energy more productively. So there definitely is a strong argument in that, under voluntary conditions, without force. But again, even for that to be possible, the first step is to be more relaxed yourself towards other people's missteps. This is the root problem and the root solution. Not what other people are doing, but what you are doing. And I really do wonder: if our society in real life has become more peaceful overall, is it despite what is going on in the net... or because people now can vent their frustrations in more harmless ways on the net or in games or whatever... if so, I will gladly let them.
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Old 08-19-2019, 10:42 AM   #13
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It's called Anchoring, they set high prices for in game items to try and normalise it. They then implement the same thing in full priced games at a lower price point then over the years ramp it up.

Just look where we are today in terms of monetisation by the slop step wise iterations and people eventually accepting a cut back version.. it's comical that it succeeds but it does. Just look at how many people "accept" loot boxes for "Cosmetics" due it not being as bad as P2W.. which is the ultimate goal of these companies.

EA tried a large step with Battlefield but are using the popularity of Apex and F2P model as a lever for future monetisation in paid games. You can see it coming a mile off they will implement this in paid games but at a lower price point to try and justify it. Hey but in our F2P games our cosmetics are much more expensive so these smaller prices reflect you've already paid.... aren't we nice to you.
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Old 08-19-2019, 11:38 AM   #14
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Good thing I don’t care about cosmetics. Free game is still free if you don’t buy any cosmetics. I win.
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Old 08-19-2019, 11:45 AM   #15
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Good thing I donít care about cosmetics. Free game is still free if you donít buy any cosmetics. I win.
Yeah, if you don't like horse armor dlc just don't buy it! It's not as if it could ever start a very bad trend or anything like that!
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Old 08-19-2019, 11:51 AM   #16
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Good thing I donít care about cosmetics. Free game is still free if you donít buy any cosmetics. I win.
No you didn't. A potentially great game got shelved to make room for a watered down FTP piece of shit that falls under the reoccurring revenue business model. Only fools think they come out ahead with games like Fortnite & Apex Legends.

As I've said before... free shit still smells like shit.
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Old 08-19-2019, 11:58 AM   #17
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The only asshats and dicks are the greedy bastards who decided it would be a good idea to release another lame free to play battle royal game on the world instead of using their talents to create a true piece of video game art.
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Old 08-19-2019, 12:06 PM   #18
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No you didn't. A potentially great game got shelved to make room for a watered down FTP piece of shit that falls under the reoccurring revenue business model. Only fools think they come out ahead with games like Fortnite & Apex Legends.

As I've said before... free shit still smells like shit.
The only free game Iíve played is Paladins, it is a fun game and I didnít have to pay a dime. I did end up buying their battle pass to throw them a few bucks for the 200 + hours I put into it. Well, I tried PvZ2 and that was fun until they started making it so hard that you had to spend money to move on. Then I quit it. No money spent and a wash for a free game vs the time I spent playing. I have tried Fortnight and really donít enjoy the Battle Royal formula. No money spent vs a small amount of time. Again a wash.
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Old 08-19-2019, 12:10 PM   #19
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Play the game. If you do not want the "outfit" then don't pay for it. Just play the game with the default outfits and the ones you grind. Its a free game. If you want the shiny outfit then grind or pay. Simple.
The issue is they built their economy so that you can't grind for outfits. Once you hit 100 you do not get any additional loot boxes. So any material needed to purchase a legendary skin, new character, etc needs to be paid for with premium currency or purchasing new loot boxes. They purposefully designed their in-game economy to require spending money if you care at all about the cosmetics in the game.
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Old 08-19-2019, 12:17 PM   #20
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The issue is they built their economy so that you can't grind for outfits. Once you hit 100 you do not get any additional loot boxes. So any material needed to purchase a legendary skin, new character, etc needs to be paid for with premium currency or purchasing new loot boxes. They purposefully designed their in-game economy to require spending money if you care at all about the cosmetics in the game.
Well then that sucks. You canít prestige?
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