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Old 12-02-2018, 09:53 PM   #21
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All of the shows were produced by Marvel and ABC Studios and shopped to Netflix to be the distributor. They didn't make the shows.
I prefer to imagine you are wrong to avoid crying myself to sleep, tonight.
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Old 12-02-2018, 10:19 PM   #22
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All of the shows were produced by Marvel and ABC Studios and shopped to Netflix to be the distributor. They didn't make the shows.
Your 2013 link does not match with the reality (which I linked to) that Netflix has a production credit for LC and IF, and several other companies are also listed as producing the work.

The number of cooks with their hands and money in the pot on anything coming out of Hollywood for TV or movies is often, as it is here, quite lengthy and complicated.
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Old 12-03-2018, 05:03 AM   #23
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Your 2013 link does not match with the reality (which I linked to) that Netflix has a production credit for LC and IF, and several other companies are also listed as producing the work.
Your link to a user-edited means about as much as a Wikipedia article. IMDB isn't necessarily a reliable source, because anyone can edit that stuff. That article from 2013 describes the deal laid out between Disney and Netflix for these shows. So, there's that.

This is all beside the point, though. Netflix never owned the rights to these characters because they were always Marvel Studios projects (and, by extension, Disney projects). Their successes, failures, and mistakes had nothing to do with Netflix, because they weren't involved with the creative aspects of any of the shows. They were literally just the delivery platform.
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Old 12-03-2018, 03:26 PM   #24
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This is all beside the point, though.
Bucket in hand, bailing?

Seems on point to me! You said "Netflix was just the distributor and had absolutely nothing to do with the production of these shows." That's pretty unequivocal. It's also completely wrong.

Unless you have a link to the actual contracts, we'll have to rely upon other sources. Sources such as Forbes from a few days ago, which indicates quite clearly that....surprise surprise surprise!...Netflix pays money to produce the Disney-owned IP.

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Netflix pays money to produce the Marvel shows, but they don't own the IP...

So if Netflix kept making the Marvel shows, then they would be producing content owned by someone else that would serve to drive consumers to a competing service full of content explicitly taken away from Netflix.

In that context, it's not hard to already see why the business decision to cease production on the Marvel shows is a logical one for Netflix...


If the Marvel shows were being viewed by subscribers who were already loyal to other programming, then why spend money to produce the Marvel shows? Especially if they were seeing declining viewership, and would ultimately wind up promoting a competitor's brand and rival streaming service?

This, too, is an understandable and logical reason to discontinue the Marvel shows. Combined with the other points about Disney+ as a competing service, it's clear Netflix has overwhelming reason to end their production deal with Marvel.
You were wrong.
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Old 12-03-2018, 05:44 PM   #25
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Producing in Hollywood is a very loose term. Just handing over cash can make you a producer on a show or movie.

Edit: And yeah it’s Wikipedia but the production is worded like this: “Marvel and Disney announced that Marvel Television and ABC Studios would provide Netflix with live action series centered around Daredevil...” I’m sure Netflix paid for the series to be made which would technically give the production credit. But it doesn’t sound like they actually made the show. But there’s also the possibility that I’m writing all of this just to watch Terran bust a vein in the effort to not be wrong about something.
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Old 12-03-2018, 06:25 PM   #26
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Bucket in hand, bailing?

Seems on point to me! You said "Netflix was just the distributor and had absolutely nothing to do with the production of these shows." That's pretty unequivocal. It's also completely wrong.

Unless you have a link to the actual contracts, we'll have to rely upon other sources. Sources such as Forbes from a few days ago, which indicates quite clearly that....surprise surprise surprise!...Netflix pays money to produce the Disney-owned IP.



You were wrong.
They pay money to distribute the shows. They're not involved in the actual production, creatively or otherwise. They don't own the rights to any of the characters, and all of them are produced and created by Marvel Studios.

So, no. I'm not wrong.
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Old 12-03-2018, 06:42 PM   #27
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You're never going to win splitting hairs with Terran; I think he's bald and has been for most of his life so every hair counts and is a precious, precious thing.

That said, having been around people "in the biz", generally all it takes is to have been involved logistically in the creation of a product to be credited as part of the production process.
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Old 12-03-2018, 07:18 PM   #28
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They're not involved in the actual production, creatively or otherwise.
They're listed. Bzzzzt, u so wrong!

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You're never going to win splitting hairs with Terran
We're all winners here!

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But there’s also the possibility that I’m writing all of this just to watch Terran bust a vein in the effort to not be wrong about something.
Son of a....POP.
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Old 12-04-2018, 06:10 AM   #29
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You're never going to win splitting hairs with Terran; I think he's bald and has been for most of his life so every hair counts and is a precious, precious thing.

That said, having been around people "in the biz", generally all it takes is to have been involved logistically in the creation of a product to be credited as part of the production process.
It's because he doubles-down on the minutia, while ignoring the actual point.

Sure, Netflix didn't do any of the writing, casting, or directing of any of these series and they don't own the rights to any of the characters. They paid money to distribute the shows, so ThEy'Re A pRoDuCeR!
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Old 12-04-2018, 02:06 PM   #30
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Sure, Netflix didn't do any of the writing, casting, or directing of any of these series
You have ZERO evidence of that level of uninvolvement, and I've already offered multiple examples of evidence that Netflix has production credit for several of the titles for which you said they "had absolutely nothing to do with the production of."

So, there's that; your statement was objectively wrong.
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Old 12-04-2018, 02:23 PM   #31
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You have ZERO evidence of that level of uninvolvement, and I've already offered multiple examples of evidence that Netflix has production credit for several of the titles for which you said they "had absolutely nothing to do with the production of."

So, there's that; your statement was objectively wrong.
Okay.

They still don't own the rights to the characters and - as previously shown in other articles - the shows were Marvel Studios/ABC Studios productions.

As such, they can just go to whatever service Disney wishes them to go to...because they weren't really Netflix productions.

So, there's that.
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Old 12-04-2018, 02:26 PM   #32
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...they weren't really Netflix productions.
They are Netflix productions (as linked above), in concert with Disney and several other smaller production companies.

Netflix just doesn't own the IP. They licensed the right to produce (in tandem with Disney et al) and distribute (on their platform) the content.

So there's that.
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Old 12-05-2018, 05:34 AM   #33
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While Netflix ponied up for production costs for the Marvel shows the streaming service had zero ownership stake in the IP. That limited upside was acceptable until Marvel’s parent, Disney, announced next year’s launch of Disney+, a direct rival to Netflix that will have Marvel Studios content as a flagship in its formidable armada.

Disney will also be withdrawing its past and present content from Netflix in the months ahead. That effectively reduced the Marvel shows on Netflix to the corporate equivalent of refugees.
https://deadline.com/2018/12/daredev...ey-1202514072/
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Old 12-05-2018, 05:48 AM   #34
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While this probably should end the debate, I somehow don't think it will...
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Old 12-05-2018, 03:29 PM   #35
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according to an article I read, and the following link who seems to corroborate the article here it seems the canceling side is actually Netflix.
Netflix, knowing disney+ is gearing up for 2019 or 2020 release, decided to end the shows to cut it's ties with a future and strong rival.

So what do you say now?
(I too assumed Marvel/Disney were the guilty ones... but lo and behold)
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Old 12-05-2018, 04:45 PM   #36
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Thank you! Confirms Netflix involved in production.

"While Netflix ponied up for production costs for the Marvel shows, the streaming service had zero ownership stake in the IP."

Just as I said.
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Old 12-05-2018, 05:40 PM   #37
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according to an article I read, and the following link who seems to corroborate the article here it seems the canceling side is actually Netflix.
Netflix, knowing disney+ is gearing up for 2019 or 2020 release, decided to end the shows to cut it's ties with a future and strong rival.

So what do you say now?
(I too assumed Marvel/Disney were the guilty ones... but lo and behold)
I'm reading from multiple places saying it was Marvel who made the decision and the Netflix people were left in the dark. Their posts on social media seem to indicate that being the case.
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Old 12-05-2018, 08:28 PM   #38
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Itís hard to believe that Netflix was left in the dark given how involved they were in the production.
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Old 12-06-2018, 03:03 AM   #39
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I'm reading from multiple places saying it was Marvel who made the decision and the Netflix people were left in the dark. Their posts on social media seem to indicate that being the case.
As you can see the link I posted shows it the other way around, and it's not the only source I encountered as well.

Please share the links you found, I have a mild interest in figuring this debacle out.
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Old 12-06-2018, 05:47 AM   #40
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As you can see the link I posted shows it the other way around, and it's not the only source I encountered as well.

Please share the links you found, I have a mild interest in figuring this debacle out.
Apparently people are reluctant to say but Slashfilm weighed in.

The explanation that seems most plausible to me is that Netflix new that Disney wouldn't re-up the contract for the show and decided to cut ties early. Either way, it doesn't really show whether or not Netflix was involved in the actual making of the show. Even if they weren't involved at all aside from providing cash and a platform, they obviously have to the power to not serve up shows on their servers. If they were directly involved, then of course it just gives them that much more power to kill the show.
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