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Old 01-13-2020, 12:47 PM   #5741
PacerDawn
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Originally Posted by Eats View Post
https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...mminent-threat

I agree with trump on the fundamentals here that he can kill Soleimani if he wants to. What I don't agree with is him lying to us and fabricating intelligence to justify military action. That is like Iraq all over again.

He should've just been real from the start. They attacked our embassy, this is the retaliation. He didn't need to make up intelligence about them planning 4 other imminent attacks. We shouldn't get led into war again based on fabricated bullshit.

I don't understand why he wasn't confident in his actions enough to just be real. Or maybe he is just so used to lying and making shit up he can't stop.
Well... I think that could possibly be a little nit-picky. Per your link:

Quote:
Esper said that he shared Trump’s view that “probably — my expectation was they were going to go after our embassies. The embassies are the most prominent display of American presence in a country.”
Trump is not a politician or a military person. They had just gone after one embassy, so I'm sure when they briefed him on it he got the impression that they were going to attack more embassies. Even the defense secretary got that impression per his own words. But Trump didn't make up the point that we did in fact have intelligence that an attack was coming, that was never refuted (not even by that article). The only thing he could have been wrong about were the specifics. But we will never know because the attacks probably will not happen now thanks to this action.

Really he shouldn't have said anything at all about details. That's one of my biggest complaints against him, that he gives too much away. So actually I'm agreeing with you, he should have just been quiet about the whole thing.
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Old 01-13-2020, 03:11 PM   #5742
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Trump is not a politician
Trump is a politician. He holds campaign rallies constantly, he seems to be continuously campaigning for himself and others. Maybe he wasn't 3-4 years ago, but he very clearly is now. Also to be frank that was never an excuse that held water for me. When you apply for a job and you get that job you are expected to be qualified for it. It isn't ok if you talk your way into a job as a pilot and crash a plane. It isn't an excuse that you were unqualified for the position you hold.

Maybe Trump wasn't qualified, but him not being qualified isn't an excuse when he fucks up.


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Even the defense secretary got that impression per his own words. But Trump didn't make up the point that we did in fact have intelligence that an attack was coming, that was never refuted (not even by that article). The only thing he could have been wrong about were the specifics. But we will never know because the attacks probably will not happen now thanks to this action.
I don't think there was an "imminent attack" coming, nor does it sound like there was from Mark Esper. He didn't say there was any intelligence about an imminent attack coming at all.

I also don't think there needed to be one to justify this strike though. I just think Trump has been lying about intelligence that doesn't exist. That is what I see as a problem. That is how we get into another Iraq situation. The executive playing games about intelligence that doesn't exist to justify military action.
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Old 01-13-2020, 06:31 PM   #5743
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Trump is not a politician by trade so he's not politically correct when he gives his views. He exaggerates quite a bit because he's a salesman. And anyway, other politicians lie all the time as well so if someone is going to hold that against Trump then there is literally nobody in office that people would be able to support. Unfortunately we don't get to choose the perfect person for the job, we can only try to get as close as possible by selecting what is available.

If Trump was the first president who ever lied, then I would say yes we should hold that against him. But he's not. Even Nobel winning presidents lie.

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I don't think there was an "imminent attack" coming, nor does it sound like there was from Mark Esper. He didn't say there was any intelligence about an imminent attack coming at all.
Here's an interview Fox News did with White House National Security Adviser Robert O'Brien this past Sunday. Skip ahead to about the 1:58 mark, Wallace presses him about the president being specific:



Basically, Wallace points out that the White House has been saying there was an immediate threat. The issue is that congress was not told it was against embassies during a classified briefing. O'Brien responds that they can't release the intelligence because that would jeopardize how they acquired it, and potentially acquiring more. But he does affirm that there were significant threats to Americans and that the intelligence was consistent that they would have hit embassies in at least 4 countries.

Trump either read into the intelligence that embassies were going to be hit, or maybe that was in the intelligence and he wasn't supposed to reveal that, I don't know. With the amount of leaking that anti-Trumpers in the White House do, I would not be surprised if they left out some specifics.

Regardless, I think it's silly to focus on the specifics rather than the overall point. Seriously, if Trump said "he's going to put a bomb under the bed!" but intelligence just said "he's going to blow them up in their home at night", the press would be relentlessly harping on him for lying about where the bomb would be, rather than acknowledging that detecting that there would be a bomb at all probably saved everyone in the house. At some point you have to trust your own intelligence and take action rather than waiting for people to die.

I think Trump spoke too much.
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Old 01-14-2020, 12:16 AM   #5744
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Originally Posted by Eats View Post
https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...mminent-threat

I agree with trump on the fundamentals here that he can kill Soleimani if he wants to. What I don't agree with is him lying to us and fabricating intelligence to justify military action. That is like Iraq all over again.

He should've just been real from the start. They attacked our embassy, this is the retaliation. He didn't need to make up intelligence about them planning 4 other imminent attacks. We shouldn't get led into war again based on fabricated bullshit.

I don't understand why he wasn't confident in his actions enough to just be real. Or maybe he is just so used to lying and making shit up he can't stop.
If that's the intelligence he's getting, how is it on him? Do you actually trust our intelligence agencies at this point? You shouldn't. No one should. This should have been a nothing burger, Obozo never got congress approval for the tons of drone strikes he did. Why is it all of a sudden a problem when a republican president does it? Oh I know why, because they're so afraid of all being hung as traitors they want to take Trump out any way they can.
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Old 01-14-2020, 11:56 AM   #5745
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If that's the intelligence he's getting, how is it on him? Do you actually trust our intelligence agencies at this point? You shouldn't. No one should. This should have been a nothing burger, Obozo never got congress approval for the tons of drone strikes he did. Why is it all of a sudden a problem when a republican president does it? Oh I know why, because they're so afraid of all being hung as traitors they want to take Trump out any way they can.
Stay out of this debate, you know better...


This is just politics. They are trying to meme this imminent threat thing into bush's weapons of mass destruction fiasco. Just useless kosher bantz to keep the rank and file busy. Our dual citizens in government positions have no problem with this debate. They win no matter what.

IT DOES NOT MOVE ANY NEEDLE....


Instead of debating IF and WHY we are pushing for war or regime change in Iran, we are debating this garbage. If you are anti war or wanting america to go more isolationist this talking point is great at marginalizing you.

Shits easy, and yall keep falling for it.

Quote:
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I agree with trump on the fundamentals here that he can kill Soleimani if he wants to. What I don't agree with is him lying to us and fabricating intelligence to justify military action. That is like Iraq all over again.
This is what im sick of. I'm not anti war. But we have been being bullshitted for 30 years when it comes to the ME. Its a big reason im just done with our government. Trump of course is falling right in line.

And when some patriotard comes to me with this plan trusting bullshit i have to lol out loud.

NO ONE can be misled for 30 years and honestly trust what they are being told. And if they say they can they willfully ignorant or just trying to win a debate.

Is this ME operation going to work out in everyone's favor? Maybe. Now how about you stop fucking lying to me.


Hey trumpy, my local sam's warehouse is still FILLED WITH NON WHITE IMMIGRANTS WHO CANT SPEAK ENGLISH!! Do a flip, orange faggot.
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Old 01-14-2020, 05:10 PM   #5746
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Stay out of this debate, you know better...


This is just politics. They are trying to meme this imminent threat thing into bush's weapons of mass destruction fiasco. Just useless kosher bantz to keep the rank and file busy. Our dual citizens in government positions have no problem with this debate. They win no matter what.

IT DOES NOT MOVE ANY NEEDLE....


Instead of debating IF and WHY we are pushing for war or regime change in Iran, we are debating this garbage. If you are anti war or wanting america to go more isolationist this talking point is great at marginalizing you.

Shits easy, and yall keep falling for it.



This is what im sick of. I'm not anti war. But we have been being bullshitted for 30 years when it comes to the ME. Its a big reason im just done with our government. Trump of course is falling right in line.

And when some patriotard comes to me with this plan trusting bullshit i have to lol out loud.

NO ONE can be misled for 30 years and honestly trust what they are being told. And if they say they can they willfully ignorant or just trying to win a debate.

Is this ME operation going to work out in everyone's favor? Maybe. Now how about you stop fucking lying to me.


Hey trumpy, my local sam's warehouse is still FILLED WITH NON WHITE IMMIGRANTS WHO CANT SPEAK ENGLISH!! Do a flip, orange faggot.
He won't do a flip, he's as much a pawn of the zionists as any of the rest of them.
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Old 01-14-2020, 07:42 PM   #5747
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Finally some of Comrade Sander's people showing their true colors. https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...-trump-voters/
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Old 01-15-2020, 02:44 AM   #5748
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He won't do a flip, he's as much a pawn of the zionists as any of the rest of them.
I meant like a flip off a bridge or something

We are looking at a possible situation where the left goes ham like they did in the 70s, bombing buildings, protesting everything, getting black nationalist riled up.

This equals more red pilling for normies, more right wing votes and hopefully we can get to a point where MSM is rendered useless or run out of business and being a far leftist is social suicide just like being far right is atm. Corporations will turn at the drop of a hat, which can sadly, help.


BTW isnt it funny how occupy wall street happens, then soon after corporations all jump on the fag wagon? These leftist have been duped so hard into forgetting workers rights and wages and were herded into white knighting for .09% of the mentally ill population. A huge chunk of them aren't even anti war anymore.

Imagine hating someone so bad you end up supporting almost all their ideas just so you can signal for people with a 40% suicide rate and pedophile tendencies. Poor saps....

TFW it was a grand right wing conspiracy to smoke out commies all along. A man can dream.
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Old 01-15-2020, 11:08 AM   #5749
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What's sad is Joe Mccarthy was absolutely correct.
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Old 01-15-2020, 12:34 PM   #5750
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What's sad is Joe Mccarthy was absolutely correct.
One thing that all conservatives need to do is go back and look at some of the supposed maniacs or luminaries that you learned about throughout your schooling years. You'll find that some of the supposed maniacs were much better than your Marxist teachers taught. And some of the supposed luminaries were more maniacal than you were led to believe.

People like McCarthy, Mandela, and Pat Buchanan (not as historical but still demonized by some of my teachers and the media at large) come to mind.
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Old 01-15-2020, 05:41 PM   #5751
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And when some patriotard comes to me with this plan trusting bullshit i have to lol out loud.
You've been sucking on Q's teat-plan for years now, lol. How's that plan working out?

<crickets>.
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I certainly went to frat parties where girls were getting roofied
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Old 01-15-2020, 08:09 PM   #5752
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You've been sucking on Q's teat-plan for years now, lol. How's that plan working out?

<crickets>.
It must be doing something if the left is so incessant in removing a duly elected president.
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Old 01-15-2020, 08:33 PM   #5753
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You've been sucking on Q's teat-plan for years now, lol. How's that plan working out?

<crickets>.
Sure thing, Ziocuck

5 Trillion over 30 years and how many dead, mangled, limbs missing, widows, orphan kids? For what? Our global hegemony in the region bro? If that was the case we would be actively trying to stop China from colonizing Africa. The real threat.

Na bra. Not buying it.
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Old 01-15-2020, 08:42 PM   #5754
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For what? Our global hegemony in the region bro?
lol. I see your defense of "Q" is a



Q has failed you. All faith in Q!!!

The Middle East is a clusterfuck. Now get back to sucking on some Q.
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Old 01-15-2020, 08:42 PM   #5755
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I have never heard it called an act of war outside of you labeling it that right now. The USSR wasn't supplying N Korea or Vietnam through any proxies. Nor was the US during WW1 and WW2. The examples are endless. Iran is supplying Yemen right now in their war with Saudi Arabia.
These came up on the first page of my google search for each subject.

Vietnam:
https://www.history.com/topics/vietn...-war#section_3
https://www.cia.gov/library/readingr...0000381439.pdf

WWII:
https://history.state.gov/milestones...945/lend-lease
https://www.history.com/topics/world...nd-lease-act-1

At least put some effort into knowing what your arguing about.
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Old 01-15-2020, 08:48 PM   #5756
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lol. I see your defense of "Q" is a



Q has failed you. All faith in Q!!!

The Middle East is a clusterfuck. Now get back to sucking on some Q.
I have no idea what your trying to do. How does the middle east being a clusterfuck = american needing to be there at all? To save the widdle babies fwom ebil terrorust?

Terran, calmly, genuinely and with as few as possible tell me, why do you think we have been in the ME for 30 years and what is our end game?

And for your homework i want a 150 word essay explaining to me the level of coping you have to administer to yourself to trust this particular plan.

Im not in the mood for your horseshit today.
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Old 01-16-2020, 12:28 AM   #5757
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lol. I see your defense of "Q" is a



Q has failed you. All faith in Q!!!

The Middle East is a clusterfuck. Now get back to sucking on some Q.
Explain how he's wrong though? You can't because he isn't. Go back to sucking on some Zionist peen.
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Old 01-16-2020, 12:29 AM   #5758
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These came up on the first page of my google search for each subject.

Vietnam:
https://www.history.com/topics/vietn...-war#section_3
https://www.cia.gov/library/readingr...0000381439.pdf

WWII:
https://history.state.gov/milestones...945/lend-lease
https://www.history.com/topics/world...nd-lease-act-1

At least put some effort into knowing what your arguing about.
If Eats made any effort of educating himself at all, he'd have nothing to say to begin with.
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Old 01-16-2020, 07:19 AM   #5759
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Wow Brexit and Trump are still a major problem in 300 + years... LMFAO

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Old 01-16-2020, 11:35 AM   #5760
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Wow Brexit and Trump are still a major problem in 300 + years... LMFAO

You'd think Stewart were smarter than being used as a useful idiot political pawn. Disappointing.
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