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Old 07-24-2019, 01:00 PM   #21
RAV
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There were times the Red Scare of marxism was still an active theme in pop culture, alongside fascism.
There aren't D-day equivalent movies on it, but there were plenty of references on it across the board.
There isn't an equivalent to Wolfenstein either. Oh, but there was Red Alert in the Command&Conquer series.
But hrrm, now that I think of it, overall the red scare might be more underrepresented in games than movies today even.

But just a couple decades back, people came up with various innovative ways to discuss the mechanisms of evil in marxism.
Like the Borg collective in StarTrek, they are a direct reference to the hell of 20th century marxism.
However that is again offset by the general pro-socialist propaganda in pretty much the rest of StarTrek.
But at least that was a time liberalism was still somewhat aware of its own inherent potential for evil, and wrestled with its dark side.
The Borg in Startrek are the confession of liberal writers that things can go too far in the left field.
It comes from a generation that still had a bit more diverse discussion on the campus and general media.


And then suddenly, between the late 90's and early 2000, there was a big cutoff on the topic. It just disappeared completely, pretty much everywhere.
Then the huge wave of Social Justice came over us. I just couldn't believe it, it was breathtaking to watch. How was that possible?
Students and even professors reciting word for word from old doctrines known to have murdered millions. All the media encoded with Identity politics.
Even big companies fielding advertisement campaigns "playfully" flirting with marxist ideas. Can you imagine any company getting away flirting with Nazism?

But then again, the corresponding resurgence of fascist ideas also is flabbergasting. What times we live in.
So I suppose there is merit to the existence of movies like this. I am just forever puzzled about the sudden drop-off on similar material about marxist ideology.

We even had some soft comedy sketches on it back in the day, like with Monty Python, making fun of the one-dimensional thinking in the ivory tower of marxists.
Seeing something like this was normal at the time, along with any fascist sketches. Now even just that seems almost unthinkable.

Last edited by RAV; 07-24-2019 at 06:54 PM..
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Old 07-24-2019, 02:09 PM   #22
RAV
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Seriously, it wasn't so long ago that the fascination with the soviet bad guys was just as high as with any nazis.
It was really on par in pop culture. Even on a fetish level, lol. And who doesn't remember Tanya from c&c, right.
Ah shit, now that I remember, those kinda power girls you could get behind, lmao.

Man, those were the days. When giving hell to marxists was just as fun as shooting nazis.






And then *poof* suddenly all gone from pop culture.
Now it's all family friendly socialist propaganda.

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Old 07-24-2019, 03:44 PM   #23
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fascination with the soviet bad guys
Stranger Things, Season 3!
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"...boys lining up outside a room to take a turn gang raping a woman?...I went to frat parties where shit like this was going down
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Old 07-24-2019, 04:52 PM   #24
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Stranger Things, Season 3!
oh? maybe gotta check that show out after all.

But man, I'm just so hooked on these "documentaries" of older franchises.



Well, even though this one is fun too, I liked the previous one about NoD more, tbh.

When watching the previous Nod docu, it just feels so fucking awesome, all the way through. Maybe more awesome than the story telling in the actual games even. But you watch that, and you really want some movie or game like that in high quality production. It would totally blow away like 99% of what we got now, the whole premise and setup is just so much cooler. it makes you realize just how lame most of the shit is we got today. But you also know, seeing a game or movie like that again, is basically impossible. That's what it feels like right now anyway. Or even if it can happen it cannot be mainstream again, or wont get mainstream channel support. My expectations are just really low by now, maybe too low. But the developments just don't look good.
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Old 07-24-2019, 06:28 PM   #25
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More Shenanigans....

https://deadline.com/2019/07/watchme...ca-1202652928/

‘Watchmen’ Confronts White Supremacy Without “Grandiose Solutions,” Says Damon Lindelof – TCA
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Old 07-24-2019, 06:57 PM   #26
DingBat
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More Shenanigans....

https://deadline.com/2019/07/watchme...ca-1202652928/

‘Watchmen’ Confronts White Supremacy Without “Grandiose Solutions,” Says Damon Lindelof – TCA
Well, you have to admit, he's got a point. The nuclear brinksmanship of the original wouldn't play as well today. Though, I suppose, with a little imagination I suppose you could turn it into some sort of cyber-warfare equivalent with China. But that doesn't really have the end-of-the-world risk level attached to it.

What else would you suggest? Climate change is another obvious candidate but that would likely ruffle even more feathers.
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Old 07-24-2019, 07:54 PM   #27
RAV
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A substantial amount of the marxist theme wasn't actually about war between nations, nuclear or otherwise, but the dangers of Utopian societies. In that a country starts to turn against its own people at large. Total surveillance and control of information and population, all under the pretense of the Greater Good, enlightenment and progress, severe punishment of Thought Crime, attempts to re-engineer the human species, etc. In parts there are shared properties between fascism and marxism, but marxism has an especially hard legacy in that specifically. It "perfected" these things, and a particular spin on it. I am now reminded of Ultra Violet. That show touched on some of that. There was also a movie called Equilibrium, with themes about the attempt to eliminate all of human suffering by controlling the emotions of the population.

I actually think that as a direct threat this is still relevant, and something today's audience can connect with, maybe even more now than ever, considering technological developments. But regardless, it's not just about the direct relevance of a threat. There is no Nazi Germany today posing a direct threat either. That doesn't keep people from harping on that topic, with reference to social tendencies that would make that topic relevant. There is no SovietUnion today, but the social tendencies make that topic just as relevant still. And the general "fascination" of these topics, whether it is about WorldWar2 or the Cold War, is not about their direct relevance in either case.

The only deciding factor I think is on the particular person in question:
Some people feel more sensitive to the threat of fascism, others more to the threat of marxism.
It isn't about which is factually more relevant, it's what you personally feel more sensitive about.
And it isn't a question of which country poses the threat, but a question of your own country's transformation.
It seems to me that today's creative scene is all in on the fascism topic, but I don't think there is a logical reason for that, but more a question of upbringing: there is a whole generation of students that have been hyper-sensitivized to problems of fascism, while almost completely neglecting discussions on marxism. Fascism was nearly defeated until about 20 years ago. The liberalism of that time that achieved that was something different though, it was a lot more self-aware, and it wasn't at total war with society. The resurgence of social justice caused the resurgence of the neo-nazi scene. Just like the insanity of 3rd wave feminism caused a spike in actual misogyny among young males.

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Old 08-10-2019, 10:20 PM   #28
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Meh about this whole support Israel thing that the US govt. and the evangelicals do I find pretty ironic.. and I see it a funny form of poetic justice. After all the superpower proxy wars the the USA has been involved in, in the past and in the current, this tiny nation is using the US for its own proxy wars.

Frankly I am all about cultural darwinism. I think frankly both the government of Israel and the government of Palestine are a bunch of idiots who are juicing their idiotic rhetoric to rob their people of an actual future. The ironic thing is that the populace through its own nationalistic ignorance keeps drinking the Kool-Aid. And now that stupid divisive shit is spreading to the US via multiple venues.

Don't get me wrong, I am not donning a great-than-thou rhetoric. Burma/Myanmar the country I am residing in is the location of the world's oldest and longest civil war.
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Old 08-10-2019, 10:23 PM   #29
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I will probably watch (pirate) this as I find depictions of Hitler funny and fitting. It is good that such a vile douchebag be mocked for all of humanity.

For the people comparing atrocity olympics, imho, it doesn't matter who killed how many as it matters that they are both ratbag fucks.

Rapists, whether they raped one person or 100 are the same reprehensible fucks and should be treated the same.
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Old 08-11-2019, 02:32 PM   #30
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I think the thing which elevates the Nazi's above the others is the sheer hate and disregarding of the humanity of the affected groups.

Communists and socialists may have killed more but at least they killed "people" where Hitler et. al. didn't even feel like they were killing people. They were killing creatures with less value to society than dogs.

And if they weren't killing them they were experimenting on them, and they were trying to find easier, more efficient ways to kill them (regardless of pain inflicted).

I think it is this callous approach which may elevate the Nazis above others.

That said, I think the careless "out of sight, out of mind" massacre caused by the Ukrainian Famine and others is at least as horrific, if not more. And the mass deaths caused in Mao's re-education camps, and we can't forget the outright murder of anyone with a scientific background committed by Pol Pot and his cronies.

All of those are evil (with a little "e"). The Nazi extermination and the deliberate way they went about it is Evil (capital "E").
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Old 08-11-2019, 02:52 PM   #31
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There was exactly zero difference in the brutality, hate and inhumanity between the Nazis and the Marxists.

My god, man... what happened in these camps was unimaginable.... people didn't simply "happen to die"... this wasn't unfortunate incompetence.

The deliberate tortures that were going on there were beyond anything you could come up with if you hadn't read some of the stories of witnesses... jesus christ... jesus h.christ... jesus...

And when you read the cynical attitudes of the organizers about it all...

No dude, I know you have a better overview on the events than most. But this "evil with little e or big E" thing misses the mark completely...

It wasn't just a matter of raw numbers.... the "quality" of the murders really was something, man.. my god.
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Old 08-11-2019, 03:01 PM   #32
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There was exactly zero difference in the brutality, hate and inhumanity between the Nazis and the Marxists.

My god, man... what happened in these camps was unimaginable.... people didn't simply "happen to die"... this wasn't unfortunate incompetence.

The deliberate tortures that were going on there were beyond anything you could come up with if you hadn't read some of the stories of witnesses... jesus christ... jesus h.christ... jesus...

And when you read the cynical attitudes of the organizers about it all...

No dude, I know you have a better overview on the events than most. But this "evil with little e or big E" thing misses the mark completely...

It wasn't just a matter of raw numbers.... the "quality" of the murders really was something, man.. my god.
One of my friends was unfortunate enough to spend time in one of Mao's early re-education camps and managed to eventually make it to the US so I don't want to seem like I'm trying to minimize what happened.

I don't know anyone who suffered in other atrocities though I did see first hand some of what happened in Bosnia/Serbia which definitely had traits of genocide but lacked any real organization.

I think my point is there's a difference in the hate it takes to implement plans of genocide in the methodical way the Nazis did and other types of mass killing.

When you get people into a group like that where there they are vulnerable and at the whim of people who have no accountability or repercussions then really bad things will happen. This is a sad fact of human nature. To put a machine behind it the way the Nazis did is a different level.
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Old 08-11-2019, 03:15 PM   #33
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The gulag work camp system was the most organized death machine that has ever existed.
The system of control with which people were selected was the most refined there ever was.

There was no difference. It was extremely methodical and organized, cynical and hateful.
And I mean ideoligically hateful. Not just happenstance of power.

Any difference merely is in the flowery language about it. The pretenses and justifcations about it.

No dude, I know you don't really mean it, but this is kinda just part of the "but the marxists meant well" myth that's making the round.
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