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Old 01-08-2018, 09:19 PM   #821
Terran
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You really need to give up on the racist gimmick. Its not winning this debate for you.
You are a racist. That's not a gimmick, it's not a debate tactic. You are driven by racial animus toward minorities and racial superiority related to whites.

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I don't care if i'm viewed as a racist, but nor do i think i am one,
Most racists don't care, and you are.

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im not a colonialist like you are.
Are your family from a native American tribe? Project much?!?

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Either way, being a racist does not detract from my argument.
One hell of an argument, lol...that whites ruining the culture (progressives) are hard working wonderful people, but minorities doing so should be deported.

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There are smarter people than both of us, of every race, that sit on both sides of the fence on this, always have and always will.
Racism isn't bound to a particular IQ range. Plenty of people across the IQ continuum are racists.

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Your ego is amazing.
Thank you.

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YOU are the one looking for the perfect world and think that getting rid liberals is even possible or preferable.
Not possible to completely get rid of them, but it is increasingly possible to isolate the virus in geographic regions where I, along with other conservative constitutionalists, can avoid their infection. They can have California, Illinois, and the Northeast, lol. Good riddance.

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Keeping demographics at a point where the country is stable, free of politicians pandering to minorities while shitting on the natives is key.
So stupid. You think that a racially homogeneous population will stabilize the country and keep politicians from pandering? You're delusional. People are tribal by nature, and as I've said, that tribalism doesn't rely upon race alone. Many other factors are as, or more, important. Your solution would solve nothing.

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But a culturally weak, low trust society can not go through these cycles and deal with the added pressures of multiculturalism.
The progressive left does not need minorities to create division and lack of cultural cohesion. Get that through your thick skull. Take away minorities and they have a dozen or more other wedges with which to splinter society, because their entire 'raison d'Ítre' is to tear down traditional American culture and institutions. Good luck solving that by getting rid of immigrants.

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Also your point about the differences between white cultures pretty much proves MY point.
lol, try the exact opposite. Take away minorities and whites will form their own tribes and kill each other over plenty of other reasons, like religion (Northern Ireland) and on and on. You completely ignore this to focus on the red herring boogeyman of minorities.

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Terran, will you fight for these people?
Why would I want to keep those non-citizens in America forever? Do you have a damn clue about anything I've posted? Maybe you're just a dumb racist...

Shutting off the spigot of illegal immigrants, and moving to a system of merit based immigration, helps us primarily by importing higher-value individuals (those with skills and education) as well as lowering the numbers, thus raising wages for American workers. It does nothing to lessen the hatred and division white progressives continue to foster across the country.
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Old 01-08-2018, 10:13 PM   #822
SacredWeasel
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Piss off, your out of your league.
You're*

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...I don't care if i'm viewed as a racist, but nor do i think i am one...
You seriously think you aren't a racist? And if you don't care, why do you get so triggered every time someone calls you one?

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Y And if he fails, i think the next step is violence. Trump was a release valve of sorts, but this is temporary.
Race wars yall, theys a coming! Any time now the superior whites will rise up and cleanse the brown and black filth that has infested their countries!

I love how delusional you are. The alt right is a small percentage of the people who voted for Trump and even in the alt right there isn't exactly a consensus that agrees with your viewpoints. The vast majority of Trump voters are far more moderate than you, far closer to what Terran, Venom and Spectral have been trying to tell you. You're making the same mistake Anenome did, getting caught up in some lunatic fringe movement to the degree that you don't even realise how insane you are in to anyone not trapped in the same bubble as you.
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Old 01-09-2018, 12:08 PM   #823
blackzc
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I love how delusional you are. The alt right is a small percentage of the people who voted for Trump and even in the alt right there isn't exactly a consensus that agrees with your viewpoints. The vast majority of Trump voters are far more moderate than you, far closer to what Terran, Venom and Spectral have been trying to tell you. You're making the same mistake Anenome did, getting caught up in some lunatic fringe movement to the degree that you don't even realise how insane you are in to anyone not trapped in the same bubble as you.
Delusional! Stupid! Moron! Dumb! Insane! Keep em coming guys.

Trust me, i'm completely calm and metered. If America demographics continue on its current path it will balkanize.

Lets do a theroeticle here.

Between China and India there are 3.5 Billion people. Statistically, those two countries are going to have literally 10 times the number of talented high IQ people than America does. The talented 10th. What would importing these people do to America?

Terran thinks that importing 350 million people en mass wont change our culture. He ties IQ to a White/European value system, (again, supremacist). But no, they are Indian and Chinese, they are different, and unless (forced) to assimilate their presence will fragment the county. Another thing to keep in mind is that, in many cases, when immigrants come to america, its purely for the money. They keep their hearts and minds back at home, with their people and culture. (As they should). But coming here solely for the money without contributing culturally is not sustainable.

Stupid or smart, black or brown, immigration into the US has to be metered very carefully to not upset the established culture. The idea of a meritocratic utopia is just silly.


Terran, as well as yourself it sounds like, are both looking at this through a lens where whites colonizing earth happened. And it did, but your saying it was a good thing, and that anyone with a higher IQ could clearly see how a meritocracy is preferable to nationalism. This is racist.

Never mind the fact that draining a country of its talented people is just another form of colonialism and is very detrimental to the lower class of those countries. Meritocracy is merely how neo cons avoid racial truths..its sad...Its also VERY libertarian in nature. There will always be a lower class to look after. *Hi Anem!

As for me being in the minority, yeah, ok. Trump was elected because of the wall and immigration, bringing back jobs, and taking on the opiate epidemic. All very nationalist and very un meritocratic. I was a Neocon with libertarian leanings my entire life until 3 years ago. People change.

A few things may very well happen in the next 3 years.

1. The big social media platforms will be sued for selective de platforming, they will lose and have to change their TOS.

2. The government will step in and deem them a public utility. Preventing them censoring the right wing, while letting the left wing call for the death of whites while keeping their verified status.

3. Political views will be protected by law. Meaning being a right wing shit lord will no longer require you to do it anonymously to keep from losing his job.

Once these things happen you are going to see just how fringe i'm really not. The country has 50 years of guilt inducing media programming to shake off. It will take time. But its going to happen.
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Old 01-09-2018, 12:57 PM   #824
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lol, try the exact opposite. Take away minorities and whites will form their own tribes and kill each other over plenty of other reasons, like religion (Northern Ireland) and on and on. You completely ignore this to focus on the red herring boogeyman of minorities.
I'm confused. So we NEED minorities to keep whites from fighting each other? Implying whites should never fight... But whites and minorities are fighting each other now. Can whites keep minorities from fighting other minorities. How many fighting minorities does it take to keep whites from fighting whites? Also, fighting irish.

I guess you are kinda right though. Now that the entire western world is under threat of a 3rd world invasion...A mantra on the alt right is (no more brother wars). But you wouldn't be down with that. Your just somehow concerned with whites fighting each other and are glad the minorities are there to keep that from happening. We are getting close to some truth here. I can feel it.

But fighting is going to occur, you wuss, its fine. Id just prefer the fighting that, at the end of it, a civilization is left standing.

The mental gymnastics you go through to avoid bringing race into any and every situation is impressive.
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Old 01-09-2018, 01:22 PM   #825
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You're likely the most racist person I've had the displeasure of dealing with, or you're yet another Anenome alt one or the other. Either way you're an idiot who has obviously been "culturally enriched into shilling for the left without even realizing you're shilling for leftwing ideals and segregation.
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Old 01-09-2018, 02:43 PM   #826
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You're making the same mistake Anenome did, getting caught up in some lunatic fringe movement to the degree that you don't even realise how insane you are in to anyone not trapped in the same bubble as you.
What bubble did Anenome get caught up in? What happened to him? Did he get banned? Do people still get banned? Does anybody know who the last person to get banned was? Schnoogs? Ryctor? I think Johan left on his own, but that was a long time ago.
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Old 01-09-2018, 04:07 PM   #827
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What bubble did Anenome get caught up in? What happened to him? Did he get banned? Do people still get banned? Does anybody know who the last person to get banned was? Schnoogs? Ryctor? I think Johan left on his own, but that was a long time ago.
Anenome got swept up in sea steading. He was convinced that it was the only way to reach an ideal society. Then he got chased off by posters here because of some very off-color comments about some particularly young girls.

Johan only left briefly. He came back and created a new account, "Terran".

No idea about the other two.. and I cant recally anyone really getting any kind of perma-ban.
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Old 01-09-2018, 04:22 PM   #828
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What bubble did Anenome get caught up in? What happened to him? Did he get banned? Do people still get banned? Does anybody know who the last person to get banned was? Schnoogs? Ryctor? I think Johan left on his own, but that was a long time ago.
They think Anenome is crazy cause the an-cap and seasteading stuff. AFAIK he isn't banned he just got tired of having to justify himself all the time. As it turns out he's been proven right on a few points so far. Bitcoin/alt currency and now French Polynesia is setting up a seasteading deal.

Looks like Blackzc is getting ready to be tarnished with the same "you are nucking futs" brush. He's undoubtedly a racist but not one without a few interesting points. Those points could easily be made with more impact without falling back on "whitey=righty" though.

As many have tried to point out, skin color doesn't equal culture nor does it make a person more inclined to assimilate if they've grown up in an area with a different values tradition. This is, I believe, the stumbling block we need to get past before we can even get to deciding if/how we can address ideological OR racial issues.

And, frankly, one issue we have with America is it the large land mass gives us the area of what would normally be many countries which would otherwise have their own ideology. We sort of have/have had that and we're having problems reconciling this to what it means to be "America" as a whole. Calexit has been an idea for a while, maybe it's time to give it a more serious thought and hopefully not fight a civil war over this godforsaken haven of criminal bleeding heart socialist/communist murderers.

How can we push American Values and Nationalistic agendas if we're a house divided already? The "coastal elites" in the high population density areas on the east and west (CA, OR, WA, NY, MA, VT, CN) vs. most of the interior?
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Old 01-09-2018, 05:14 PM   #829
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I think Johan left on his own, but that was a long time ago.
Johan = Terran

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Those points could easily be made with more impact without falling back on "whitey=righty" though.
Terran and Spec do that far more than i do. Apply my scenarios to any country or culture, the results are the same. They apply to everyone. Or course i'm going to view it through a white lens, i'm white. Race isn't everything, bit it for sure isn't nothing as these two keep trying to push.

And i agree, America may be too big as land mass goes. Russia may have similar problems due to their land mass.

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Either way you're an idiot who has obviously been "culturally enriched into shilling for the left without even realizing you're shilling for leftwing ideals and segregation.
I've thought about this. But i can just as easily say that you are committed to lefties dreams of globalism, endless consumerism and a cultureless, one race, one world order. The left and right cross paths in many instances. But for sure, its something to look out for. I'm mindful of it.
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Old 01-09-2018, 08:06 PM   #830
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The mental gymnastics you go through to avoid bringing race into any and every situation is impressive.
I've been told exercise is healthy. I still hate it. This is the best I can do.
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Old 01-09-2018, 10:35 PM   #831
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I guess you guys think they wont come for you while you hide behind (Meritocracy)? They will. You will submit or be called a racist and lose your job.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/01/09...ss-report.html
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Old 01-09-2018, 10:48 PM   #832
vallor
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I guess you guys think they wont come for your (Meritocracy). They will. You will submit or be called a racist and lose your job.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/01/09...ss-report.html
Meritocracy is one tool. There's no doubt America would be quashed as a whole if the top 10% in the world came. They'd easily displace every American in the country.

There's also the volume to be decided upon; just about every country has limited numbers it allows for immigration and eventual citizenship. It wasn't until Muslim Merkel decided to ignore the EU limits when Germany started seeing a 10% rise is violent crime (of which 9 of 10 are committed by recent immigrants).

One could go further and require, as is supposed to be part of the DACA, steps to assimilation such as learning English, getting a job, etc. however those don't mean someone is assimilating.

Going full circle I think we're all shooting for the same thing, regardless of race. We want a few things from our immigrants and neighbors which are roughly analogous to the judeo-christian values which are responsible for shaping the modern world which has given us the standard of living and luxury we enjoy today. Among them are:
  • Respect for America and traditional values of hard work and earning your own place
  • Respect for the family unit
  • Respect for maintaining the integrity of the political process rather than subverting it as has been done
  • Respect for the judeo-christian values which provide the umbrella of freedom and the capitalistic system upon which America was founded
  • Taking personal responsibility for being part of a productive member of this society
  • Not subvert a political position to chip away at the promise of America for personal gain
  • Not preaching or advocating ideology which is counter to the constitution upon which the country was built
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Old 01-09-2018, 11:59 PM   #833
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The mental gymnastics you go through....
Are really astonishing...It would be tragic if it wasn't so goddamn entertaining.

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They think Anenome is crazy cause the an-cap and seasteading stuff. AFAIK he isn't banned he just got tired of having to justify himself all the time. As it turns out he's been proven right on a few points so far. Bitcoin/alt currency and now French Polynesia is setting up a seasteading deal.
Last time I checked Anenome was advocating for bitcoin cash these days..Yeah...And Anenome's points on bitcoin were undermined by his beliefs regarding what cryptocurrencies would do for his ancap dreams, but yeah sure he had some legitimate points there, but I also don't recall nearly as much disagreement about bitcoin than there was about ancap or seasteeding?

Also, nobody objected to seasteeding persť, so much as Anenome's views and dreams on it, and his own hypocritical attitude to it.

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He's undoubtedly a racist but not one without a few interesting points.
Much like with Anenome and seasteeding, it isn't that I disagree with Blackzc on all of his points on immigration, just his delusions about what those points actual mean or how they can be countered. Much like Anenome any good points he makes are lost in a sea of madness, just look at that reply he made to my taunt post and try and defend that shit...

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Going full circle I think we're all shooting for the same thing....
Yes, I do think that at least most of the regulars in this thread are actually rather closely aligned when it comes to immigration. Which is why it's so funny seeing Blackzc continually shooting himself in the foot and then crying about racism when nobodies impressed.
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Old 01-10-2018, 05:15 AM   #834
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I agree with many of the problems blackzc identifies, but he places the blame (and potential solution) incorrectly on race and racial purity. If America were entirely white, we would still have tribalism and a real potential for violence, as other white societies have shown. In fact, if he had any idea of human nature and history, he would know that the United States nearly broke out in civil war decades before the actual Civil War, during Andrew Jackson's presidency. That had NOTHING to do with slavery and was entirely over the prospect of white Southern opposition to federal tariffs and white Northern support for them. The question of slavery wasn't involved in that one, and we walked right up to the precipice of bombs and bullets over the issue because of white regional/geographic/economic tribalism.

Sure, cut down on immigration and drastically curtail the ability of illegal immigrants to game the system. Those are both necessary, but not because they're black or Hispanic, but because the numbers and lack of skills harm far too many actual American citizens. We also need to do a better job of not allowing in individuals and groups incompatible with democratic egalitarian democracy as well. If you hate our freedoms, please bugger off. There's the border. Bye.
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Old 01-10-2018, 10:19 AM   #835
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This isn't really the direction I had intended this discussion to go, but granted, I missed about 500 of the intermediate posts.

I'll ask a legit question. As a liberal, I feel like I don't understand the perspective of people who feel that immigration is a huge problem. People on the right seem to be operating from a perspective that immigrants are having a huge impact on this country and are taking jobs, money, resources, and opportunities away from US citizens. I imagine some kind of blue collar worker in middle Oklahoma who just got laid off thinking that he can't find a new job because immigrants have taken all of the job she wants as opposed to thinking he can't find a job because rich people just shuttered his factory to move it to some place more profitable and there are no skills or job training programs because conservatives want to give tax breaks to the rich. In my imaginary scenario, why does Blue Collar Bob think that immigrants are causing him a larger problem than in economy tilted towards the rich? Is racism a component? Xenophobia? Ignorance? Is it that the rich want blue collar people to be caught up in strife over immigrants more than tax breaks? Scape goats?

My larger question would be more along the lines of given any social or economic issue in the US, do conservatives always blame the poorest and weakest as opposed to the wealthiest and most powerful? Are liberals the opposite?

Lastly, and this goes in a whole other direction, but gets back to my original theme of Liberals acting like idiots, Why does anybody read what President Trump tweets? If you are a Trump supporter are you learning important things about the running of the country from an inside source very close to the white house? If you are a Trump opponent, you probably think he is a mindless idiot who just uses twitter to grab attention, so why play along? Why is what he tweets news?
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Old 01-10-2018, 11:19 AM   #836
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This isn't really the direction I had intended this discussion to go, but granted, I missed about 500 of the intermediate posts.

I'll ask a legit question. As a liberal, I feel like I don't understand the perspective of people who feel that immigration is a huge problem. People on the right seem to be operating from a perspective that immigrants are having a huge impact on this country and are taking jobs, money, resources, and opportunities away from US citizens. I imagine some kind of blue collar worker in middle Oklahoma who just got laid off thinking that he can't find a new job because immigrants have taken all of the job she wants as opposed to thinking he can't find a job because rich people just shuttered his factory to move it to some place more profitable and there are no skills or job training programs because conservatives want to give tax breaks to the rich. In my imaginary scenario, why does Blue Collar Bob think that immigrants are causing him a larger problem than in economy tilted towards the rich? Is racism a component? Xenophobia? Ignorance? Is it that the rich want blue collar people to be caught up in strife over immigrants more than tax breaks? Scape goats?

My larger question would be more along the lines of given any social or economic issue in the US, do conservatives always blame the poorest and weakest as opposed to the wealthiest and most powerful? Are liberals the opposite?

Lastly, and this goes in a whole other direction, but gets back to my original theme of Liberals acting like idiots, Why does anybody read what President Trump tweets? If you are a Trump supporter are you learning important things about the running of the country from an inside source very close to the white house? If you are a Trump opponent, you probably think he is a mindless idiot who just uses twitter to grab attention, so why play along? Why is what he tweets news?
Conservatives are against ILLEGAL Immigration and Sanctuary cities protecting said illegals, while said illegals are voting because those on the left like yourself can't seem to tell the difference between the two. We have a massive problem in this country with voter fraud. Those on the left however want to simply pretend that voter fraud doesn't exists. Hell those on the left also want to allow fellons to vote, guess who they vote for?
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Old 01-10-2018, 11:41 AM   #837
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Why would you think there is a massive problem with voter fraud? I'm assuming that there is a better reason than Trump said so. I have worked in elections for over a decade in the largest county in my state and the amount of fraud is negligible. Similarly, the amount of documentation that goes in to voter registration, signatures, etc, is pretty formidable, so what you are claiming seems absolutely false. Is there a tiny amount of fraud, sure. Is it enough to cause a problem with election results? I don't think so.

In the past 20 years, I think that voter suppression issues (or in one case, awful ballot design) have had a far larger impact than any type of fraud. I also do not want felons to vote, so I think you are wrong on both counts.

Quick edit- I don't think any discussion of election effectiveness would really reflect my actual perspective if I did not at least mention voter turnout. I am almost perpetually disappointed at low voter participation. We have had elections with less than 20% turnout of registered voters. I think about half of the population is even registered. In a disengaged democracy, lack of voter participation is a much larger problem than voter fraud.
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Old 01-10-2018, 01:51 PM   #838
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This isn't really the direction I had intended this discussion to go
Would you like editing/censoring rights? That's popular on the left these days.

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As a liberal, I feel like I don't understand the perspective of people who feel that immigration is a huge problem.
So bring everyone here. All of them. Seven billion people, let's bring them all on board. It's an unalloyed good, after all, so more is better.

Never mind the costs borne by the average American worker in depressed wages and job opportunities, the costs borne by American taxpayers, the cost in criminal acts committed by illegals/immigrants against American citizens. Nope. Never mind.

BRING THEM ALL HERE.

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do conservatives always blame the poorest and weakest as opposed to the wealthiest and most powerful? Are liberals the opposite?
Why do liberals always virtue signal their love for the poor while doing their damnedest to harm them? Why is it that black unemployment (and economic growth) through EIGHT years of a liberal black presidency were terrible? With the black unemployment rate at a historic low right now, who really cares about blacks in their actual POLICY AGENDA, and who doesn't? And why are liberal high tax states currently working SO HARD to protect state income tax deductions for their wealthiest residents? THE RICH at the top of the income brackets in NY and CA are the only ones due to be hit by an inability to deduct state income tax payments on their federal returns. Don't you care about progressive taxation and seeing rich people pay more? And why did liberals unite en masse against the recently passed tax plan that has already put workplace bonuses and pay raises in the pockets of over a million workers and will give 80% of taxpayers a well earned tax cut while only raising taxes on the wealthiest few 10%?

Why do you hate the poor so much?

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If you are a Trump supporter are you learning important things about the running of the country from an inside source very close to the white house?
Do his tweets trigger irrational liberals (I repeat myself)? Yes, they do. GOOD.
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Old 01-10-2018, 02:29 PM   #839
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America really doesn't need a million mayan death cultists. It really doesn't. And, in admitting these literal death cultists, you aren't helping the countries they come from either.

You don't want to turn on the tv and hear about pieces of several women found on the side of the road... daily. You don't want to see your cops' families be threatened till they have to release the gang members.

It's fine if you are pro immigration, but make sure you are not bringing in the scum of the earth.
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Old 01-10-2018, 05:19 PM   #840
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Originally Posted by Whimbrel View Post
Why would you think there is a massive problem with voter fraud? I'm assuming that there is a better reason than Trump said so. I have worked in elections for over a decade in the largest county in my state and the amount of fraud is negligible. Similarly, the amount of documentation that goes in to voter registration, signatures, etc, is pretty formidable, so what you are claiming seems absolutely false. Is there a tiny amount of fraud, sure. Is it enough to cause a problem with election results? I don't think so.

In the past 20 years, I think that voter suppression issues (or in one case, awful ballot design) have had a far larger impact than any type of fraud. I also do not want felons to vote, so I think you are wrong on both counts.

Quick edit- I don't think any discussion of election effectiveness would really reflect my actual perspective if I did not at least mention voter turnout. I am almost perpetually disappointed at low voter participation. We have had elections with less than 20% turnout of registered voters. I think about half of the population is even registered. In a disengaged democracy, lack of voter participation is a much larger problem than voter fraud.
If there is no voter fraud explain how Hillary had more of the popular vote than actual people who voted. Also explain the districts that also had more votes counted than actual voters. Or the dead people who magically vote for democrats every cycle. No voter fraud my ass. This is why I give people like you so much shit. Right from the jump you're intellectually dishonest.

Not quite sure how illegals voting in elections isn't a problem in your eyes. If they were voting the other way you'd no doubt take issue with it.
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