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Old 05-16-2017, 09:15 AM   #1
Terran
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Marvel Cancels Black Panther & The Crew


Two issues in and Marvel has decided to pull the plug on Black Panther & The Crew, shutting it down for good with just a six-issue run. This follows comments by Marvel vice president of sales David Gabriel in April that “people didn’t want any more diversity," at least as evidenced by the poor sales of much of that particular part of their comic lineup.

The author brought on board for the series, Ta-Nehisi Coates, said that "As a child of the crack-riddled West Baltimore of the 1980s...I found the tales of comic books to be an escape, another reality..." Apparently and ironically, not enough folks wanted to pay to read a comic series expressing disdain for police and sympathy with those who espouse violence against them. Sounds like Coates' comic, which became a vehicle for his ideological perspective, wasn't the escape others' were looking for in their entertainment. As a result, Mr. Coates, "You're fired."

Diversity is not a problem for your customers, Marvel/Disney. The problem is your terrible attempts to warp current characters into 'diverse' forms rather than building new ones, and your use of the comic medium as a platform from which to preach politically and ideologically lopsided messages against the bulk of your current customers. I'm sure some day they'll become enlightened enough to figure out what is good for them and begin to buy your drivel. Until then, you'll lose money on the stuff.
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Old 05-16-2017, 11:15 AM   #2
gillman
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The comic itself was pretty terrible. Marvel doesn't handle any of this stuff the right way either, and so everything needs to be black and white (no pun intended) for the readers. Cops simply beat down black citizens... because? Spider Island had more tones of subtly hidden in it, and that was a story about everyone in New York getting Spider-Man powers. The fact that they even caught the artist that slipped in subtle racist art into X-Men is amazing at this point.
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Old 05-16-2017, 12:06 PM   #3
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It may be that in an alt right consumer world, this comic won't succeed. I don't buy comics any more, and I haven't read the series. There does seem to be a heavy handedness in themes and setting in things comic related lately. I can't describe it exactly, but I thought that the recent Luke Cage and Iron Fist series and even the Jessica Jones series were overburdened with attitude and whiny/ complaining about shit. Coates may be the wrong guy for comics, but I am glad they at least tried it.

I disagree about the cop thing though. Good cops , bad cops, lazy cops, etc. have been a part of comics for 70 years. Godfather, Bosch, dozens of TV shows, etc. I am not advocating violence against police. That shit is deranged and I am 100% against it. Police aren't' perfect humans just because of their job or their uniform, but being anti-police in general is lunacy. Did MArvel overestimate the commercial appeal of this series? Yes. Is it because people are tired of having ideology crammed down their throats? Possibly. I know I'm getting pretty sick of it.
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Old 05-16-2017, 02:03 PM   #4
VenomUSMC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whimbrel View Post
It may be that in an alt right consumer world, this comic won't succeed.
This can't be serious, can it be? Comics have LONG had been heavily influenced by what Left (no alt needed, the mainstream Left often is more extreme than many of those labeled alt right).

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Originally Posted by Whimbrel View Post
I don't buy comics any more, and I haven't read the series. There does seem to be a heavy handedness in themes and setting in things comic related lately. I can't describe it exactly, but I thought that the recent Luke Cage and Iron Fist series and even the Jessica Jones series were overburdened with attitude and whiny/ complaining about shit. Coates may be the wrong guy for comics, but I am glad they at least tried it.

I disagree about the cop thing though. Good cops , bad cops, lazy cops, etc. have been a part of comics for 70 years. Godfather, Bosch, dozens of TV shows, etc. I am not advocating violence against police. That shit is deranged and I am 100% against it. Police aren't' perfect humans just because of their job or their uniform, but being anti-police in general is lunacy. Did MArvel overestimate the commercial appeal of this series? Yes. Is it because people are tired of having ideology crammed down their throats? Possibly. I know I'm getting pretty sick of it.
It's pretty clear that you don't consider yourself a member of the alt right, so if you're sick of having a particular ideology crammed down your throat, what does that say about your original statement?
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Old 05-16-2017, 03:48 PM   #5
LostToys
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I think comics did a better job of masking what they were trying to impart to the reader. Everything is much more overhanded and direct so it is harder for viewers to really sink into something that is "real" and "raw". We miss the metaphors.
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Old 05-16-2017, 06:24 PM   #6
SpectralThundr
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Originally Posted by Whimbrel View Post
It may be that in an alt right consumer world, this comic won't succeed. I don't buy comics any more, and I haven't read the series. There does seem to be a heavy handedness in themes and setting in things comic related lately. I can't describe it exactly, but I thought that the recent Luke Cage and Iron Fist series and even the Jessica Jones series were overburdened with attitude and whiny/ complaining about shit. Coates may be the wrong guy for comics, but I am glad they at least tried it.

I disagree about the cop thing though. Good cops , bad cops, lazy cops, etc. have been a part of comics for 70 years. Godfather, Bosch, dozens of TV shows, etc. I am not advocating violence against police. That shit is deranged and I am 100% against it. Police aren't' perfect humans just because of their job or their uniform, but being anti-police in general is lunacy. Did MArvel overestimate the commercial appeal of this series? Yes. Is it because people are tired of having ideology crammed down their throats? Possibly. I know I'm getting pretty sick of it.
What is this alt right consumer world in which you speak of? The fact is the lunatic left has controlled media and academia for a while now. Us sane people who live in reality and don't cry racism every 5 minutes are quite frankly sick of your shit.
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Old 05-16-2017, 07:24 PM   #7
Terran
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Originally Posted by Whimbrel View Post
an alt right consumer world
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Old 05-16-2017, 08:08 PM   #8
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Wow, you guys are really acting all frothy. I was just agreeing with Terran that for alt right consumers this comic would have zero appeal due to excessive left wing moralizing from the author in the content. In other words, this comic would be a commercial failure for an alt-right marketplace of consumers. If we go out on a limb and assumed that the current comic buying audience has approximately the same views as this website, then left wing moralizing would make for a pretty unappealing comic book, and likely doom the title to commercial failure.

I then went on to say that even as a liberal, I don't like super hero stuff to be overwrought with whining and lecturing. I found the Luke Cage to be particularly grating, but in hindsight, I didn't really like Jessica Jones or Iron Fist either. I think the recent DC films have also been a touch overdone with heavy doses of real themes, and in the recent Logan, Star Wars, and even Guardians of the Galaxy film everything feels like it has been dialed up to 11 for pathos. Just play the shit goofy as fuck.

My last atrocious comment had to do with the fact that violence against cops and anti cop sentiments have been a part of many comics that succeeded, so as ugly as it might be, I doubt that it played a huge role in the audience reaction.

So, go ahead and take your implied faceplam and other rabid comments and blue lives matter yourselves with them. You guys act like you are waiting in line to circle jerk your responses and not a single one of you bothered to think through what I had written or to realize it was essentially an agreement with Terran's post.
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Old 05-16-2017, 08:37 PM   #9
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Please, you imply right off the bat that people aren't buying into the agenda pushing simply for being "alt right." People are sick of you liberals trying to shove your hive mind bullshit into everything trying to get people to submit and agree. Comics, video games and movies would be far better without your poisonous ideology. If you can't convince people in just every day speech, why do you think cramming it into every form of media is going to get you?

"Go blue lives matter yourselves" yep you're just so in agreement in the most banhanded and bitter way imaginable.
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Old 05-17-2017, 07:48 AM   #10
Terran
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not a single one of you bothered to think through what I had written
I thought it through quite clearly, which is why my only response in disagreement is with your "alt right consumer world" point. I don't believe this is even CLOSE to accurate as a descriptor of the comic book buying public. In fact, blaming the failure of this comic series (and other progressively infused comic series and characters) on an "alt right consumer world" in comics is so mind-bendingly absurd as to beggar belief.

If you think the comic and graphic novel public is an alt right public, you've clearly become too comfortable residing in the fever swamps of lib/prog agitprop.
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Old 05-17-2017, 08:01 AM   #11
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The dudes who buy comic books are not a group you can fit into one of the left/right/liberal/conservative labes as they are as diverse as it gets. What I think is the reason these comic books are failing is because when you try to cram your stupid ideology/religion into shit by hiring shitty ideologues, the storie's quality suffers. Uninteresting comics don't sell and that's why this is being cancelled.

But hey, we apparently are all alt-right white supremacists (even though some of us aren't even white or american) and EvilAvatar forum is a hive mind, everyone thinks the same and only the brave liberals are the free thinkers
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Old 05-17-2017, 09:00 AM   #12
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It is staggering to see the lengths you will go to to disagree with me simply because I am a liberal. I make a simple claim that alt right consumers would not be likely to confer commercial success on content that is heavy handed and over the top with left wing ideology, and suddenly you guys all think that is the craziest thing you've ever seen. You want as much left wing patronizing crap shoved down your throats as you can possibly get and you'll all gladly pay through the nose for the privilege? Yeah, right. Don't you guys choke on that amount of bullshit? It is really astonishing.

Can't you just agree with the simple point that people on the alt right would tend to not like left wing moralizing shoved down their throats? Is that really so hard to just stipulate one tiny point of agreement? I don't like it and I'm on the fucking left!
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Old 05-17-2017, 09:12 AM   #13
Terran
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It is staggering to see the lengths you will go to to disagree with me simply because I am a liberal.
I disagree with you when you're wrong. The fact that you're also a liberal is simply a redundancy and an enjoyable happenstance.

Quote:
I make a simple claim that alt right consumers would not be likely to confer commercial success on content that is heavy handed and over the top with left wing ideology, and suddenly you guys all think that is the craziest thing you've ever seen.
You're making a different point here than you made in your first post, where you said:

Quote:
It may be that in an alt right consumer world, this comic won't succeed. I don't buy comics any more, and I haven't read the series.
This clearly states that you, a liberal, don't buy comics, and to you the comic buying public is instead an "alt right consumer world" where "this comic won't succeed" since, the implication follows, folks like yourself don't buy comics any more.

You're correlating the failure of the comic with the comic buying public's predominant political views (which you've improperly identified, lol), rather than ascribing the failure of the comic to its creator and his heavy-handed treatment of political and ideological topics which ruin the enjoyment and "escape" from reality that comics offer...something the author himself enjoyed as a child but is ruining for others!

Quote:
Can't you just agree with the simple point that people on the alt right would tend to not like left wing moralizing shoved down their throats?
Sure. Agreed!
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Old 05-17-2017, 10:29 AM   #14
Whimbrel
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OK, not to argue further. Thanks for the point of agreement. I did not mean to imply anything about my not buying comics anymore in relation to my first sentence. 30 years ago I was comics crazy, but I got out of it and haven't felt like really getting back in mostly because I lost interest and too much shit has happened for me to pick right back up where I left off. It has nothing to do with the comics themselves or the current political spectrum. More it has to do with me just getting older. The only relevance about my not buying comics to my post at all was that I was trying to indicate that I was not a first hand authority on Black Panther or any other comic and that I was taking your word for what was in it.

I don't think comic buying market is exclusively alt-right, but I would guess that it approximately parallels the population of this site, so maybe 51% or more. Either way, commercial failure with that group would probably be enough to cancel a title. We could test my theory if anybody is really up on this stuff. Are there any current titles that are full up on alt right perspectives that are doing surprisingly well or poorly?
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Old 05-17-2017, 10:56 AM   #15
Terran
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I don't think comic buying market is exclusively alt-right, but I would guess that it approximately parallels the population of this site, so maybe 51% or more.
You are a lunatic.
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Old 05-17-2017, 12:27 PM   #16
Whimbrel
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You are a lunatic.
= agreement!

So sayeth the lunatic of awesomeness.

2 questions.

1. What percentage of this site's current active membership is alt-right?

2. What percentage of the current comic buying public is alt-right?
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Old 05-17-2017, 12:37 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Whimbrel View Post
= agreement!

So sayeth the lunatic of awesomeness.

2 questions.

1. What percentage of this site's current active membership is alt-right?

2. What percentage of the current comic buying public is alt-right?
Since we're asking questions, what percentage of the site's current active membership are moonbats?
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Old 05-17-2017, 01:10 PM   #18
Terran
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Originally Posted by Whimbrel View Post
1. What percentage of this site's current active membership is alt-right?

2. What percentage of the current comic buying public is alt-right?
Great questions.* Since you've made the ridiculous assertion that both are majorities (51% or more), you can provide us with a specific answer for both! Clearly a majority of comic/graphic novel buyers are, as you say, white nationalist alt righters, lol. All that's left to determine is exactly how large the majority is. All aboard the Whimbrelroad!



* And by great I mean "What the fuck are you smokin', Willis?"
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Old 05-17-2017, 01:26 PM   #19
Whimbrel
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Great questions.* Since you've made the ridiculous assertion that both are majorities (51% or more), you can provide us with a specific answer for both! Clearly a majority of comic/graphic novel buyers are, as you say, white nationalist alt righters, lol. All that's left to determine is exactly how large the majority is. All aboard the Whimbrelroad!



* And by great I mean "What the fuck are you smokin', Willis?"
I don't want to play the IQ card here, but you do realize that it takes just as much knowledge to agree with something as to disagree with it. If you don't know the percentages, then that would make your disagreement equally as ridiculous as my assertion, right? I hope you follow this. I mean, forget the partisanship for a second, this is just plain logic.

All I did was ask for your opinion, you went all nuts about that, but unless you have information that I don't and for some reason aren't willing to share, you just indicated that your own position is equally ridiculous. Which is a strange thing to do while claiming that I am on a fail road. What does that say about you? Fail train on a fail road? If you don't know, then just say you don't know. If you do know, then just share your knowledge. You don't have to make this a pissing match and then piss all over yourself for no reason just to confuse things.
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Old 05-17-2017, 01:39 PM   #20
Terran
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I don't want to play the IQ card here
Good thing for you. I think yours is blank.

51%+ of the comic book buying public is not comprised of racist white nationalists, thank you very much. As a point of comparison, Klan membership is currently on the order of 3,000 total in the entire country (a fact taken from the ADL). The leap to claiming A MAJORITY OF THE COMIC BOOK BUYING COMMUNITY IS COMPRISED OF WHITE NATIONALISTS is so utterly ludicrous as to lead one to question your sanity and/or intelligence (hence the blank card, lol).

Of course it makes sense that you would find this ridiculous hypothesis plausible, because committed leftists are absolutely unable to come to grips with their electoral losses (see my sig!) and the inadequacies of their political positions and political candidates, so they declare their opponents racists and their supporters no better than hood-wearing Klansmen. Of course comic book buyers would appear as white nationalists to you. How else to explain their rejection of leftists tropes and ideological preening and posturing through the medium of comics? It couldn't be the tired, preachy, hectoring nature of the lousy message and stories. It has to be the Neanderthal inclinations of white racists refusing to consume the medicine that's good for them! Buy it, it's good for you!

LOL. A majority of the comic book buying community is comprised of white nationalists? Prove your ridiculous assertion, you lunatic. Your argument fallacious, Argumentum Ad Ignorantium.
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