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Old 07-18-2018, 05:34 PM   #2001
Terran
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Originally Posted by Eats View Post
Yes, I definitely do. Don't try to make me a tribalist just because you are.
You're a tribalist because you didn't do a damned thing to complain when Obama ordered a 'stand down' rather than a strong response to Russian meddling in America's elections.

Obama didn't do SHIT. Now the Dems think it's suddenly important. lololol, losers.

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And seriously you guys stop it with the uranium. It is so stupid and makes no sense.
Blind tribalist ideologues defend the indefensible.

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Before the Obama administration approved a controversial deal in 2010 giving Moscow control of a large swath of American uranium, the FBI had gathered substantial evidence that Russian nuclear industry officials were engaged in bribery, kickbacks, extortion and money laundering designed to grow Vladimir Putin’s atomic energy business inside the United States, according to government documents and interviews.

Federal agents used a confidential U.S. witness working inside the Russian nuclear industry to gather extensive financial records, make secret recordings and intercept emails as early as 2009 that showed Moscow had compromised an American uranium trucking firm with bribes and kickbacks in violation of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, FBI and court documents show.

They also obtained an eyewitness account — backed by documents — indicating Russian nuclear officials had routed millions of dollars to the U.S. designed to benefit former President Bill Clinton’s charitable foundation during the time Secretary of State Hillary Clinton served on a government body that provided a favorable decision to Moscow, sources told The Hill.

The racketeering scheme was conducted “with the consent of higher level officials” in Russia who “shared the proceeds” from the kickbacks, one agent declared in an affidavit years later.

Rather than bring immediate charges in 2010, however, the Department of Justice (DOJ) continued investigating the matter for nearly four more years, essentially leaving the American public and Congress in the dark about Russian nuclear corruption on U.S. soil during a period when the Obama administration made two major decisions benefiting Putin’s commercial nuclear ambitions.
The first decision occurred in October 2010, when the State Department and government agencies on the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States unanimously approved the partial sale of Canadian mining company Uranium One to the Russian nuclear giant Rosatom, giving Moscow control of more than 20 percent of America’s uranium supply.
Dumbass.
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Old 07-18-2018, 05:35 PM   #2002
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If it doesn't matter, why did Russia pay for it? Shits and giggles?
To make money. This was not a purchase of uranium, it was a purchase of shares in a mining company.

Almost all of the uranium is still in the US. Buying uranium is not a license to export it to Russia.
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Old 07-18-2018, 05:40 PM   #2003
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Yes, I definitely do. Don't try to make me a tribalist just because you are.

The US is the one who should be fucking with other countries. Not the other way around. This isn't some hippy justice bullshit, like you seem to think it is...which is strange.....
It's a do as I say not as I do mentality. Can you even fathom how hypocritical you sound?
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Old 07-18-2018, 08:54 PM   #2004
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It's a do as I say not as I do mentality. Can you even fathom how hypocritical you sound?

In soccer you try to score and also stop the other team from scoring. Is that hypocritical?
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Old 07-18-2018, 08:59 PM   #2005
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In soccer you try to score and also stop the other team from scoring. Is that hypocritical?
you're comparing sports to national sovereignty. Your belief is no nation can be sovereign except the US... you eats are truly a dumb fuck.
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Old 07-18-2018, 10:42 PM   #2006
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you're comparing sports to national sovereignty. Your belief is no nation can be sovereign except the US... you eats are truly a dumb fuck.
You are acting like a child. This isn't a kids game where we make sure everyone gets a turn with the ball. There is no time period in the history of civilizations when empires were not battling each other for spheres of influence/control. The United States is an empire in a battle with primarily China, Iran and Russia for control.

The history of the United States since at least ww2 is really a history of colonialism. When Trump talks about making america great again he is talking about a time period where the CIA toppled governments we didn't like, and exploiting the resources and manpower of other countries while exporting their wealth.

That is what the US is, and that is what every empire in all of history is.
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Old 07-18-2018, 10:59 PM   #2007
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You're a tribalist because you didn't do a damned thing to complain when Obama ordered a 'stand down' rather than a strong response to Russian meddling in America's elections.

Obama didn't do SHIT. Now the Dems think it's suddenly important. lololol, losers.
This was a tactical mistake to try to keep our elections legitimate, not him basically publicly allying with Russia against US interests.

If he had come out hard this could've triggered a constitutional crisis, which at the time the polls suggested this didn't matter and wasn't worth the risk to our political system.

You have to remember that back then politics wasn't a continuous circus of insanity where the president talks shit on twitter and is wildly unpredictable. Our allies actually expected us to maintain stability. You know, the way it has been for the past 100+ years.

Also when this came out he had 2 months left in office. What was there to do? He did do this: https://www.cnn.com/2016/12/29/polit...use/index.html

Even in retrospect I'm not sure what he should've done. Delaying the election or making some kind of move to stop Trump from running would've been absolutely crazy and not worth it. Honestly both candidates should've been disqualified but there was no way to do that without destabilizing our democracy.

Last edited by Eats; 07-19-2018 at 12:10 AM..
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Old 07-18-2018, 11:08 PM   #2008
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I mean look at this crazy bullshit:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018...financier.html

If you don't think the Magnitsky act is justified then we have nothing to discuss because you live in a echo chamber of propaganda.
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Old 07-19-2018, 12:18 AM   #2009
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Because what we need is a cyber war with any big foreign power. Especially one that we've decided meddled this time only because the President we got wasn't the President a bunch of people wanted.
This isn't even as simple as shilling for Trump. It is sowing general discord in our country by creating flash points. Also hacking our political parties and dumping documents before an election. These propaganda operations are new. Russia backing brexit and other protectionist political groups to break up our alliances is new.


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Originally Posted by vallor View Post
Y'all act as if this is the first time a foreign power has interfered with an election. The only difference now is how far off the deep end the progressive lefties have gone because who won. And they'll do anything, say anything, to try and minimize their awful showing and try to conceal the awful mismanagement of the country that led to a Trump win despite all the terrible things he supposedly stands for and represents in their eyes.
Show me examples of previous illegal interference in our elections by our enemies. Show me where they were hacking political parties and releasing illegally obtained information.
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Old 07-19-2018, 03:00 AM   #2010
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There are huge differences between empires. You make it sound as if it's arbitrary, and no matter which side would have gained control it would have looked the same. It would have looked much much much worse under anyone else but the US.

You underestimate how far the world has come since ww2. It doesn't actually look bad, considering what we had to work with. Whatever you think the USA exported from other countries, it created much more wealth in them than what you think it took.

Of course there are also large differences in how these other countries managed themselves, what they made of the trade relations and opportunities, how they invested themselves.

As far as messing with other governments goes, there often was little choice. They were not good guys anyway, so messing with them was justified.
By preventing communists from gaining power, the US probably saved the lives of many millions more than died in the conflicts.
Often there was little choice in alternatives, so you try pick the lesser of evils, which is still pretty bad, but what can you do.
These regions just don't have much experience with proper government setups and our concept of freedom. And there also was a lot of deception among groups.
It wasn't a period of "colonialism" but active crisis management, in a region that's severely conflicted regardless of Western involvement. And it's far from simply dethroning governments "we didn't like".

Watch at how the Emirates look. If the last decades really were "colonialism" and "exporting their wealth", we would have simply took the oil for nothing, they could have done nothing to prevent that. Abu Dhabi would still be nothing but sand dunes and camels. Oil by itself is no wealth. It's dirt. The skyscrapers we built for them in exchange is wealth.



If messing with governments were simply about getting free stuff, we could have done that to the Emirates too. But the West has paid for everything. The West wants nothing more than stable trade relationships.
The West would vastly prefer if these regions were stable free market democracies like us, with fair deals and fair trades. This would vastly increase everyone's wealth, because actual wealth is something very different than you think it is.
Notions of how we profit on mayhem or exploitation in these regions, is peanuts compared to how much more wealth we could generate together if the Middle East looked like Europe. That it doesn't really is not so simple as to be our fault, even if you seem to think so.

Your concept of wealth seems to be, "every wealth we have is wealth they don't have". But this is not how wealth works in this day and age. If the Middle East were at our stage of development, the wealth of everyone in the world would increase almost exponentially.
Because actual wealth has to do with generation of knowledge, much more than the resource itself. The wealth of a people depends most of all on their knowledge and skills. And the best of all: everyone's knowledge in the world amplifies each other. With every people closing up on us, everyone wins.

Which is also why it's such a pity China is controlled by a repressive regime, which tremendously slowed them down. And by slowing themselves down, they slowed everyone down.
The cheap production they offer by exploiting their own population in sweatshops is nothing compared to the advantages for everyone in the world if they were a properly developed society like ours.

We don't really need cheap labour or cheap resources anymore. Most of all we need great ideas. It's all about the ideas now. And a great idea from one side of the world spawns another couple great ideas around the rest of the world.

Last edited by RAV; 07-19-2018 at 05:07 AM..
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Old 07-19-2018, 08:19 AM   #2011
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Funny how this is making the rounds now, since it's been going on for over a decade. This family is OWNED by Russia to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars.





But go ahead - play the ole "Whataboutism" card and remind us again how Obama did nothing Sad, just very sad. Bring up the servers too. Classic!
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Old 07-19-2018, 10:05 AM   #2012
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To be a liberal and believe that business dealings and a US presidential campaign are one in the same. To be this upset about things your side hasn't been able to prove in 2 years, vs actual evidence of collusion with Russia, slush fund money (Clinton foundation) and actual sale of nuke material to a country we're supposed to hate. Which is more damning Sinistar?
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Old 07-19-2018, 12:18 PM   #2013
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Haha! Sinistar, you and Eats make Alex Jones look like a low key local town reporter. Unhinged, the two of you.
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Old 07-19-2018, 12:45 PM   #2014
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This family is OWNED by Russia to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars.
OMG, Trump has money at stake, that must be why he is letting the Russians get away with everything!!!

Well Progressive lefty logic he should be Xi Jinping's cockholster too instead of starting a trade war with China. He's got hundreds of millions at risk by pissing off China too.

{EDIT: REMOVED IMAGES, they broke the page} finding new versions.
No smaller image version and I'm too lazy to resize and put on my imgur account so I'll just type this in:
  • Trump owns a 30% stake in a Manhattan tower that borrowed almost a Billion $ from four lenders, including the Bank of China.
  • The State owned Industrial and Commercial Bank of China is currently one of Trump Tower's (NYC) largest Tenants, paying $2m a year to rent the 20th floor till 2019 (when the lease will expire during Trump's presidency)
  • Trump owns 72 Chinese trademarks in real estate, commercial, and residential arenas which can be revoked at the whim of the State
  • Trump has filed for 42 new chines trademarks, which he will win or lose based on the whim of the State
  • The DJT collection, apparently still made in China supposedly nets him a cool (estimate) $60m a year and can be shut down at the whim of the State
  • DJT had dozens of deals pending in China which are either now defunct or in jeopardy since becoming President

Oh, but MAD HAX!! Like China isn't one of our top Cyber threats...

I mean it isn't like they have it out for us...

But some Russian's trolled the Internet, hacked the DNC server and released the info to wikileaks and whoever else. But everyone forgets they TRIED to hack the RNC the RNC just remembered to install Norton anti-virus so the hack failed. You think their dirty laundry wouldn't have been Wikileaks front page too if they'd gotten their hands on it?

No, let's all just be myopic cause y'all don't like Donald Trump for one of a dozen reasons.

Despite the fact that the country just keeps doing better and better no matter how many people put on black face masks and bash people over the head with bicycle locks. Or try to keep the government from going about the business of securing our national interests people just can't let get a grip.

Good for Trump though I guess. This unraveling of sanity from the left isn't going to do them any good come November. The reaction people are expecting is tantamount to someone getting shot execution style for bumping into someone on the street.

Last edited by vallor; 07-19-2018 at 01:14 PM..
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Old 07-19-2018, 04:59 PM   #2015
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Haha! Sinistar, you and Eats make Alex Jones look like a low key local town reporter. Unhinged, the two of you.
Not mentioning me in this comment.

IM WINNING!!
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Old 07-19-2018, 06:06 PM   #2016
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Russia AND the NRA?? Was that a super volcano erupting or the collective orgasm of the Progressives of America?



Holy shit, all parents with progressive children still living at home (that's a lot) are going to want to give plenty of warning before entering bathrooms and knock very loudly and count two minutes before entering their children's bed room.

Also, be prepared for a lot of them kids washing their own sheets and take great care washing socks of male (or "female" children equipped with male gentiles; don't judge!).
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Old 07-19-2018, 06:24 PM   #2017
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Show me examples of previous illegal interference in our elections by our enemies. Show me where they were hacking political parties and releasing illegally obtained information.
Good lord. You realize they tried to hack the RNC too but failed, right? They didn't single out the DNC but that fact is conveniently forgotten because it doesn't help the "Russian Collusion" narrative.

Geopolitical enemies are as geopolitical enemies do; they want to destabilize the nation and goddamn if they haven't managed to do it. Look at America now.

Donald Trump WAS the best President for Russia to get elected, not because you idiots are so fucking, moronically, gigantically, tragically stupid to think Russia bought and paid for him but because they went with Standard Operating Procedure but they screwed up the RNC server hack we're willing to tear our own country apart.

Putin should get a fucking trophy.

p.s. Since your version of Google is broken, let look it up for you; it's even a left leaning site, so you can believe it.
Foreign governments interfering with US elections.
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Old 07-19-2018, 06:47 PM   #2018
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They didn't hack the dnc at all. Seth Rich leaked it to Wikileaks and got Arkansided for it.
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Old 07-19-2018, 06:56 PM   #2019
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This was a tactical mistake
LOL!

Obama does nothing in response to Russian cyber attacks and interference in our elections, and in fact specifically tells his administration to STOP and DO NOTHING. Eats? "This was a tactical mistake."

Trump sends weapons to Ukraine for defense against Russia (Obama wouldn't), heightens sanctions, and publicly spats with Germany for trying to build a pipeline to Russia providing Russia with billions in trade. Eats? Trump COLLUSION...TREASON...HERPDERP!

I notice you seem to have grown tired of denying the uranium issue, since I helpfully provided you a link to that very issue which you so tribally denied.

Quote:
Before the Obama administration approved a controversial deal in 2010 giving Moscow control of a large swath of American uranium, the FBI had gathered substantial evidence that Russian nuclear industry officials were engaged in bribery, kickbacks, extortion and money laundering designed to grow Vladimir Putin’s atomic energy business inside the United States, according to government documents and interviews.

Federal agents used a confidential U.S. witness working inside the Russian nuclear industry to gather extensive financial records, make secret recordings and intercept emails as early as 2009 that showed Moscow had compromised an American uranium trucking firm with bribes and kickbacks in violation of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, FBI and court documents show.

They also obtained an eyewitness account — backed by documents — indicating Russian nuclear officials had routed millions of dollars to the U.S. designed to benefit former President Bill Clinton’s charitable foundation during the time Secretary of State Hillary Clinton served on a government body that provided a favorable decision to Moscow, sources told The Hill.

The racketeering scheme was conducted “with the consent of higher level officials” in Russia who “shared the proceeds” from the kickbacks, one agent declared in an affidavit years later.

Rather than bring immediate charges in 2010, however, the Department of Justice (DOJ) continued investigating the matter for nearly four more years, essentially leaving the American public and Congress in the dark about Russian nuclear corruption on U.S. soil during a period when the Obama administration made two major decisions benefiting Putin’s commercial nuclear ambitions.
The first decision occurred in October 2010, when the State Department and government agencies on the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States unanimously approved the partial sale of Canadian mining company Uranium One to the Russian nuclear giant Rosatom, giving Moscow control of more than 20 percent of America’s uranium supply.
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Old 07-19-2018, 07:12 PM   #2020
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This unraveling of sanity from the left isn't going to do them any good come November. The reaction people are expecting is tantamount to someone getting shot execution style for bumping into someone on the street.
The left is laying the groundwork for a poor 2018 and a loss in 2020. They need more than "Russia Russia...Pig Police...Disband ICE...Russia Russia" to win.

The left is making losing more likely for themselves by forcing everyone into tribes.

Quote:
But identity-outing could backfire on the Democrats. If the Democrats persist in the identity politics game, an American citizen (C-Amer) coalition arrayed against them could be a formidable opponent. Post-Trump, C-Amer may have particular use as a cohesion tool for regrouping Republicans. It is already probably a major (but unnamed) framework among Independents. Old school economic liberals and union members who have decried the dominance of identity politics in their party may find it congenial. C-Amer also remains an open identification for all minorities who do not see their interests advanced by being in an ethnic silo. Finally, many young men may one day become tired of their designated role as allies in the intersectional game—a role confined to confessing their privilege and getting out of the way to give others the platform. C-Amer becomes a more dignified identity for them than their current role in an identity-based Democratic Party.

For months, political theorists have been puzzling over the 206 counties in the United States that voted for Obama twice and then for Trump in 2016. That otherwise strange phenomenon might have been signalling the emergence of C-Amer as a political identity. If so, the phenomenon broke in favor of the Republicans this time, but this is not a guaranteed outcome. C-Amer as a political identity could aid the Democrats if it forces them to abandon the types of victim-group politics that reduce support for more universalistic Democratic policies. On the other hand, it could just as well become a cohesive identity for a post-Trump Republican party. The tribalist Democrats need to think hard about the consequences of forcing the entire citizenry into explicit identity stances. Those consequences could be more unpredictable than the Left now seems to think, focussed—as it is now—on what it assumes are inevitable demographic changes in its favor.
The left has decided to form in-groups and out-groups, and to declare entire swaths of American society on the 'outs' with their preferred identities. They've left millions of Obama voters and independents with nowhere to go where they actually count worth a damn...except for the Republican Party.

They've also rejected rationality.

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Rather than relying on personalized knowledge, science makes knowledge claims public so that conflicting ideas can be tested in a way that is acceptable to all disputants. Science puts observation in place of a power struggle. Truly scientific claims are in the public realm, where they can be criticized, tested, improved, or perhaps rejected. This allows a selection among theories to take place by peaceful mechanisms that we all agree on in advance, and it is why science has been a major humanizing force in human history.

A robust defence of the scientific adjudication of truth claims is no longer the default—no longer the accepted norm—on university campuses, at least as exemplified in the official policies coming from the university administration and in the politically-correct atmosphere in which professors in the social sciences and humanities must now work (making groups like Heterodox Academy necessary).
The Progressive Party of Science™ is anti-science and anti-rationality. In the process of dividing American society into a hierarchy of tribes they forged the foundation that led to Trump, and doubling/trebling down on the method will not win except in the intellectual black hole of all blue states like California, lol.

Good luck, Dems. Keep shatting the bed, man. I like winning!
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