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Old 10-27-2019, 06:38 AM   #41
AlfredT
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Battletech get it right you dumb shit. TLOU had terrible combat and a shittastic ending which made the entire point of the game moot. Had to make sequels somehow I suppose, killing off Lesbian Prime would have ended it after 1 game.
Lol my friend likes Battletech a lot too, and whever I call it Robotech (on purpose) he shits a brick like you are doing.
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Old 10-27-2019, 10:04 AM   #42
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Lol my friend likes Battletech a lot too, and whever I call it Robotech (on purpose) he shits a brick like you are doing.
There's a reason for that Robotech was garbage. While the BT IP has endured since the 80's.
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Old 10-27-2019, 10:15 AM   #43
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Did not expect the discussion on this news to be so gay.
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Old 10-27-2019, 10:40 PM   #44
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Maybe the delay is to take OUT all the lesbianism after they realized ideology won't sell.

Wishful thinking.
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Old 10-27-2019, 10:46 PM   #45
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How so? The pride parades? The constant shouting in the media to be represented despite being less than 3% of the population. It's what LBGT folks tend to do, throw their sexuality out there constantly so no one forgets they're gay.

No one cares. Remember when it was "who cares what people do in their bedrooms?" Now it's "Your 5 year old needs to learn about the joys of anal sex" and the dominantly progressive school system is more than happy to tell little Billy all about it! Or pushing pre teens to dress in drag etc. It's pretty disgusting really to push that shit on children. 20 years ago that community acted like they were against pedophilia. Now that they are more socially accepted it's as if they can't help but push their sexual identity on fucking kids.
Spot on, man. My 8yr old son's teacher insinuated I should teach him about "swallowing" because he will hear in on the bus otherwise. What the actual fuck? It was bad enough I had to give him a crash course on sex at 8 when I wasn't expecting to do so until at least 12. NO ONE told me about this crap when I grew up. But now according to all the online articles I should have been doing it since he was 5! An 8 yr old should not be learning about erections and semen, but I was apparently appallingly late talking about it. On the other hand, before this talk he was convinced babies came out of women's "butts" and was still referring to his organ as a wee wee. BUT STILL. At least wait till they hit puberty FFS! Can't have innocent children anymore.

I swear the liberals get turned on by the idea of teaching kids as small as possible about all the details of sex.
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Old 10-28-2019, 12:25 PM   #46
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remove the word lesbian from the above paragraph and we all know this ‘controversy’ goes away. What exactly is wrong with a revenge story?

As I said, I agree about the pushing of left, lgbt agenda through the media is out of control but this outrage is a step too far.
You missed the main point. The Last of Us went from an incredibly original and moving story in a game where the world and environment were as much a character as the characters you got to interact with.

The sequel is a trope with a big ass side order of an agenda.

Naughty Dog has every right to create the game they want to make and I have no doubt it will be an incredibly well polished and well playing game. But I feel like the direction they've taken it diminishes the grandeur and potential they had available from the first game. They've squandered their opportunity.

Polygon is sure to give it a 20 out of 5 stars.
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Old 10-28-2019, 03:14 PM   #47
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You missed the main point. The Last of Us went from an incredibly original and moving story in a game where the world and environment were as much a character as the characters you got to interact with.

The sequel is a trope with a big ass side order of an agenda.

Naughty Dog has every right to create the game they want to make and I have no doubt it will be an incredibly well polished and well playing game. But I feel like the direction they've taken it diminishes the grandeur and potential they had available from the first game. They've squandered their opportunity.

Polygon is sure to give it a 20 out of 5 stars.
Well said. Imagine that a dev took a very well received game and made what looks to be a very promising sequel. But in the CG trailer, you find that one of the main characters is a redneck Trump supporter. And the trailer pretty much just showcased that the guy is a Trump supporter and he was now getting revenge on the bastards who killed his Trump supporting brother. Four things would be true.
  1. They'd have every right to make this trailer, even if it was a little in your face to a good amount of people.
  2. There really shouldn't be any impact on the gameplay.
  3. It would be stupid.
  4. People would be going berserk over it.

Again, I never played the first. I've been told that I really should play it but for some reason it never looked like it would appeal to me. So I'm not mad here. They didn't take something I loved and "ruin it" in my eyes. I mildly roll my eyes at it and even poke a little fun because of how on the nose they were in that trailer.
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Old 10-28-2019, 04:04 PM   #48
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You missed the main point. The Last of Us went from an incredibly original and moving story in a game where the world and environment were as much a character as the characters you got to interact with.

The sequel is a trope with a big ass side order of an agenda.

Naughty Dog has every right to create the game they want to make and I have no doubt it will be an incredibly well polished and well playing game. But I feel like the direction they've taken it diminishes the grandeur and potential they had available from the first game. They've squandered their opportunity.

Polygon is sure to give it a 20 out of 5 stars.
What agenda?! The tomboy girl is a dyke, itís hardly earth shattering and it doesnít take anything away from the world they built.

Also you donít know what the story is about from the trailer. All the nerd rage just makes you guys look like insecure bigots.
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Old 10-28-2019, 04:20 PM   #49
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What agenda?! The tomboy girl is a dyke, it’s hardly earth shattering and it doesn’t take anything away from the world they built.

Also you don’t know what the story is about from the trailer. All the nerd rage just makes you guys look like insecure bigots.
I don't know why you think I'm raging. I'm fine with the game Naughtydog wants to make; I may just not buy it is all.

As for the agenda you are right all we know about the story is a few trailers but one consistent factor is that they made the main character a lesbian. They spend a good amount of time in these trailers making sure we know she's a lesbian and that she goes rampaging after the "Wife in the Refrigerator" event happens. Oh, did we mention she's a lesbian?

And that is just the game trailers, let's not forget about all the posts and press that they've got to say "Hey, we made a game with a lesbian as the main character! Aren't we awesome? If you don't like it you are a bigot. And probably a Trump supporter. Fucking Nazi." They have focused on it so much so it's like they're daring someone to question their progressive credentials.
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Old 10-28-2019, 10:22 PM   #50
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I don't know why you think I'm raging. I'm fine with the game Naughtydog wants to make; I may just not buy it is all.

As for the agenda you are right all we know about the story is a few trailers but one consistent factor is that they made the main character a lesbian. They spend a good amount of time in these trailers making sure we know she's a lesbian and that she goes rampaging after the "Wife in the Refrigerator" event happens. Oh, did we mention she's a lesbian?

And that is just the game trailers, let's not forget about all the posts and press that they've got to say "Hey, we made a game with a lesbian as the main character! Aren't we awesome? If you don't like it you are a bigot. And probably a Trump supporter. Fucking Nazi." They have focused on it so much so it's like they're daring someone to question their progressive credentials.
They said "arent we awesome, if you dont like it you're a bigot and probably a trump supporter. Fucking Nazi"?

I don't remember that kind of dialogue at all. Whoa whoa whoa. Feeling some things inside there, Vallor?
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Old 10-28-2019, 10:55 PM   #51
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I just find the assumption that it wouldn't matter so strange. Of course it matters.
It's as if you wanted to watch porn, and someone told you, why not watch this gay porn instead? it's functionally the same. Dick in, dick out. What's the problem?

The game is very cinematic and story driven. The identity of the character has a lot of influence of how it relates to other characters and the world.
That it just would be completely inconsequential is nonsense. Of course it matters to me that Mario wants to rescue Peach, and Link has the hots for Zelda.
Half the reason I want to play Red Dead Redemption is precisely because I want to experience the world as a more or less authentic renegade cowboy.
Not a purple haired twink. Not an Attack Helicopter. Not 3-headed alien shooting rainbows out its ass.
A significant amount of characters in our media has become very unappealing to ordinary folks.
It's not about fairness. I understand that it's kinda unfair about what is majority interest.
But there is functional reasons why life is setup like this in its majority interest.

Doesn't mean this game shouldn't exist. It's their game. Their story. I'm not gonna write them hate mail about it.
But it's not as if it doesn't matter. of course it does. it sure affects people's interest in it. You can yell bigot all you want.
I can understand some of the frustration from people coming from the Unchartered series and the first LastOfUs, with certain expectations that don't pan out.
Just as I fully expect some gay person to prefer a story based on gay characters. it is an inherently unresolvable issue. always will be.
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Old 10-29-2019, 07:37 AM   #52
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I just find the assumption that it wouldn't matter so strange. Of course it matters.
It's as if you wanted to watch porn, and someone told you, why not watch this gay porn instead? it's functionally the same. Dick in, dick out. What's the problem?

The game is very cinematic and story driven. The identity of the character has a lot of influence of how it relates to other characters and the world.
That it just would be completely inconsequential is nonsense. Of course it matters to me that Mario wants to rescue Peach, and Link has the hots for Zelda.
Half the reason I want to play Red Dead Redemption is precisely because I want to experience the world as a more or less authentic renegade cowboy.
Not a purple haired twink. Not an Attack Helicopter. Not 3-headed alien shooting rainbows out its ass.
A significant amount of characters in our media has become very unappealing to ordinary folks.
It's not about fairness. I understand that it's kinda unfair about what is majority interest.
But there is functional reasons why life is setup like this in its majority interest.

Doesn't mean this game shouldn't exist. It's their game. Their story. I'm not gonna write them hate mail about it.
But it's not as if it doesn't matter. of course it does. it sure affects people's interest in it. You can yell bigot all you want.
I can understand some of the frustration from people coming from the Unchartered series and the first LastOfUs, with certain expectations that don't pan out.
Just as I fully expect some gay person to prefer a story based on gay characters. it is an inherently unresolvable issue. always will be.

Watching gay porn is non-comparable. One watches porn for the sex, which aligns with one's sexual orientation. You can have compelling stories with a gay character.

We have plenty of games we can "role play" as more of ourselves. You named a few. Playing The Outer Worlds, I'm the space cowboy I want to be. Some drug dealer was giving me lip. I punched him in the face a few times. Calmed him right down.

But you don't have to totally 100% relate to a character to have a good story. In fact, sometimes some really good stories involve things you CAN'T relate to, because it compels you to think about a different perspective than one you'd typically think about. Challenging your own comfortable perspective is critical to growth. It's like a religious or really political person never challenging their own beliefs, but instead listening to things that re-affirm their own beliefs all day long. How can one call that a "belief". It's just mental masturbation, rather than true intellectual progress.

I've played great, compelling games, or listened to or read great stories that didn't involve characters that embody the kind of person that I am.

But at the end of the day, as a gamer, it's always about this. The bottom line. The brass tacks. Is the game fun to play? That's all that ever matters. Playing as a gay unicorn that shoots rainbows out of their ass doesn't matter. Is the game fun? In a story driven game, that usually comes down to "Is the story interesting and compelling?". Gay, straight - doesn't matter. Is the story compelling? We'll find out.
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Old 10-29-2019, 08:12 AM   #53
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It is comparable, because most good story lines have elements of romance in it, which is implied sexuality. Not only are most straights not interested in explicit homosexuality, they are usually also not interested in how romance works in homosexuality. Otherwise it may skip romance altogether, but that's not satisfying either. Also in other themes of female empowerment they often skip this topic or make it too awkward. Don't like it.

The other issue is that the general themes, storylines and messaging in it just don't appeal to me overall. These characters usually come with an outlook on life that doesn't interest me much, and usually very negative messaging towards boys and men. Almost every element of it emanates something like the following: "You are useless and worthless. This world is bad and it's all your fault. you are annoying, evil and oppressive. No one needs your help. No one wants you around. Can't you just disappear already?"

This type of messaging has become very common, and I find it disastrous on our society. I think it is a problem when minority issues take so much center stage, because raising the majority of ordinary people into functional human beings is utmost imperative and takes extraodinary effort, resources and the vast majority of our attention -- I see too much of it diverted these days. And a lot of boys suffer for it. When regular boys break, everything breaks. And I see a lot of breaking. But that perspective, of all things, doesn't seem to matter anymore at all.

I really don't feel like I miss out much, to be honest. And actually it's not a new perspective anyway. It just is the same old same old message, just the other way around. Men are bad. Okay, I get it. Worthwhile perspective to consider, I guess. Though I have seen so many other things that actually did give me new valuable perspectives without all this.

The following short sequence cinematics below give more a vibe of "Be brave. Be strong. Protect your girl. Honor your parents. Take care of your kids. Support your friends. They love you. they need you. Your efforts are appreciated. Make the best of yourself. Build a better world. On your feet, son. Save the day. Go for your destiny." and I like it much more. It's very classic. You might call it cliche or kitsch, but I'd rather play this and feel enriched much more than the other stuff. it's about comradery, sacrifice, love.

It also greatly motivates me to play the game and assume that role. Being motivated is an important part of a game's theme.
Again, if you are into other stuff, that's fine with me, have it your way. I'm telling you what I like, and why I'm just not into that other stuff.
There is just nothing you can say to turn me around on this, it just is what it is, and my consumer choices are what they are.





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Old 10-29-2019, 08:50 AM   #54
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It's an older video but the guy says things pretty well in my opinion.
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Old 10-29-2019, 08:59 AM   #55
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It's an older video but the guy says things pretty well in my opinion.
Juan: Herp derp no agenda here what agenda! Herpy derpy!
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Old 10-29-2019, 09:04 AM   #56
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Juan: Herp derp no agenda here what agenda! Herpy derpy!
Yeah you can have your agenda but own it. Don't deny it or hide it. Just freakin own it. Don't try and fool me into liking your product and then sneak your agenda in after. Don't tell me there's no agenda when there really is. Don't have an agenda and get mad at me when I don't participate. That's the stuff that actually does make me kind of mad. Make whatever game, show, movie, book, you want. Just own your ideas and don't get mad if I don't partake. You don't have a right to my approval, my cash, or my time. And I think the vast majority of people get that. But they somehow forget it when they tell you about their new lesbian movie and you say "Nah, not for me."
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Old 10-29-2019, 09:11 AM   #57
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It's an older video but the guy says things pretty well in my opinion.
I actually agree with most things he said in the video^

I think there is a certain point where instead of trying to tell a natural story, you're trying to squeeze things in to accommodate all groups, it can interfere and hinder the game.

I honestly don't think most people are bothered by the protagonist of a game being gay. It's whether it fits into a compelling story or takes away from it that matters.

But I don't think we should write off the game yet until it becomes clear that we either have a fantastic story and game, or something contrived and forced. And I feel that way about romantic relationships of all types in all entertainment platforms.

There are plenty of "straight" relationships in games and movies that are forced as well, and just ruin the experience.

So it's the same feeling, the same notion, whether it's a gay or straight relationship. We've all seen movies or played games where the straight love interests and relationships were forced, contrived, and it makes you cringe.

So, on that note, I'd never knock anyone for not wanting to see those sorts of things, gay or straight, looming over a story, making it feel contrived and unnatural.

But it's a fine line to walk. I don't think someone should write it off as "agenda" and assuming it's forced without the perspective of experiencing the piece of entertainment media itself first. That said...boy, that "i have a secret agenda" quote is uhhhh, well. it leaves me with some doubts about the quality of the game. For sure.

I'm just saying. It never hurts to be open minded and give something a go. Even if the characters are challenging for you to relate to.

That said, I'm not trying to convince anyone to play the game. Do what you want. Just offering my little-to-no value perspective. Because that's what we do here. Having a gay protagonist doesn't AUTOMATICALLY make something "agenda" or forced, or not a good story. Though it certainly can. It's on a case-by-case basis. Let's see. I will say the quote of "a secret agenda" is not overly promising. Be open and honest about what you're trying to accomplish with your art, whatever the medium. No secret agendas. Our lives have plenty of those as it is. But of course, if it was a true secret, he would have left it a secret. Not said "I have a secret agenda". And the agenda just may to be portray women characters in a more rounded way. Which, if it fits into a compelling story, could be fine.
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Old 10-29-2019, 09:23 AM   #58
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I'm not sure the "secret agenda" will hurt this game. By most accounts, the first game was superb. And Naughty Dog has always had talent. I doubt that they're going to turn to crap right now. If it happens, it will probably take time. But, as I have said many times before, I have tons of entertainment options and not a ton of free time in which to consume them all. So I don't mind passing on what might be otherwise great experiences for whatever reasons I see fit. I just don't feel like I'm missing out anymore.
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Old 10-29-2019, 09:27 AM   #59
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Juan: Herp derp no agenda here what agenda! Herpy derpy!
I skimmed the video and the guy is straight up inventing shit that is not there. Drake has a daughter rather than a son means Naughty Dog pushing an agenda? What the actual fuck.

I played through the recent uncharted and tlou and did not feel either overtly pushed any agenda. To already be saying you will boycot TLOU2 when you don't even know the story, so you are purely saying it's because the the protagonist is a lesbian makes you sound like a frothing at the mouth idiot imo.

And lest anyone forget, Spectral openly admits to being a holocaust denier so his opinion on any subject should be treated with extreme suspicion.
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Old 10-29-2019, 09:29 AM   #60
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I skimmed the video and the guy is straight up inventing shit that is not there. Drake has a daughter rather than a son means Naughty Dog pushing an agenda? What the actual fuck.
I believe Naughty Dog flat out said that Drake was originally supposed to have a son but changed it to a daughter by Neil Druckmann, the game's director.

*edit* I took out the quote. I couldn't find any official reference for it.
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