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Old 08-16-2019, 01:51 PM   #21
Terran
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How about you have just a bit of social obligation you moraless libertarian fuck?
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Old 08-16-2019, 01:59 PM   #22
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Yeah because society having morals rather than pushing the degree of degeneracy currently going on is such a dumb idea!

Political Correctness is a cancer always has been, always will be.
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Old 08-16-2019, 02:23 PM   #23
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"social obligation"

"morals"

Communists.

You want people to whom you can give, and expect, social obligations? Have a friggin' family, you selfish bastards. There's your support network.

You want people upon whom you can place moral expectations? Have a friggin' family, you controlling bastards. There's your moral universe.
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Old 08-16-2019, 04:33 PM   #24
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"social obligation"

"morals"

Communists.

You want people to whom you can give, and expect, social obligations? Have a friggin' family, you selfish bastards. There's your support network.

You want people upon whom you can place moral expectations? Have a friggin' family, you controlling bastards. There's your moral universe.
While the rest of the world falls to shit, great idea!
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Old 08-16-2019, 04:36 PM   #25
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You have bought into the libertarian memes, no social responsibility, no obligation to your countryman. To you, america is a collection of atomized individuals, no culture or shared values, and america is simply a center of commerce. Its disgusting.


Your a chicken shit, scared to deal with anything, so you use neo con/libertarian tropes to deflect. You think a safe full of guns simply existing is enough to protect you. Problem is if people like you set the tone for the next 100 years everything will continue to degrade into Brazil. At least i have my guns!! LOL KK.
..
My obligation to my countryman? I served in the Army. I pay taxes. I obey the law. I give to charity. I don't want anyone to do anything special for me but leave me alone and obey the law. We aren't a big 330 million person family. The idea of that disgusts me. I keep it simple and small.

The founders of the country created protections like the 1st and 2nd amendments to protect us from tyranny, from others telling us what we can say, do or believe. Saying I have obligations to behave in a certain way that you find pleasing is your opinion, but that is not how our country is designed. The best way we can help each other is like I said, obeying the law. By simply doing that we will never infringe on each others lives, and we can all live in peace.

Our society is extremely spoiled. The most spoiled one in the history of mankind. We don't have wars to go to, we don't have plagues that wipe out 1/4th of our continent. We don't have to worry about where our next meal will come from. So what do people do? Find new things "wrong" with life, because the historical things that have always been a danger to us are no longer there. Point being you have it good, but maybe you're the type of person who has to have something be "wrong" or else nothing can be right.

I'm chicken shit? No, you're a chicken shit. So there!
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Old 08-16-2019, 04:55 PM   #26
Terran
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While the rest of the world falls to shit, great idea!
The world wouldn't fall to shit if more people spent their energy building solid, supportive family networks. You know, rather than foisting that burden off on others out of "social obligation" or "morals."

Family is the building block of everything. Not the collective. Take that communist shit elsewhere.
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Old 08-16-2019, 07:00 PM   #27
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The world wouldn't fall to shit if more people spent their energy building solid, supportive family networks. You know, rather than foisting that burden off on others out of "social obligation" or "morals."

Family is the building block of everything. Not the collective. Take that communist shit elsewhere.
So lets impose big families on everyone. Problem solved!
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Old 08-16-2019, 07:31 PM   #28
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The world wouldn't fall to shit if more people spent their energy building solid, supportive family networks. You know, rather than foisting that burden off on others out of "social obligation" or "morals."

Family is the building block of everything. Not the collective. Take that communist shit elsewhere.
What's cute is you call the least left leaning posters commies, rather than take a stand against the shit the left pushes to essentially destroy the family unit. Real fucking winner you are Terran.
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Old 08-16-2019, 07:36 PM   #29
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So lets impose big families on everyone. Problem solved!
Don't have kids. We'll simply replace you!

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What's cute is you call the least left leaning posters commies,
What's not cute is you defending collectivism.

Communist dumbass.
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Old 08-16-2019, 07:40 PM   #30
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Don't have kids. We'll simply replace you!



What's not cute is you defending collectivism.

Communist dumbass.
LOL having decent morals is nothing like collectivism. I get that you get your kicks from trying to troll people but good God you come off as an utter moron so damn often.
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Old 08-16-2019, 07:45 PM   #31
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LOL having decent morals is nothing like collectivism.
"Collectivism is a cultural value that is characterized by emphasis on cohesiveness among individuals and prioritization of the group over self."

I'm not interested in you or any of your communist buddies pushing your collective moral directives on me or my family, thank you very much. Go fix your own shit. Mine is doing quite well.
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Old 08-16-2019, 08:15 PM   #32
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"Collectivism is a cultural value that is characterized by emphasis on cohesiveness among individuals and prioritization of the group over self."

I'm not interested in you or any of your communist buddies pushing your collective moral directives on me or my family, thank you very much. Go fix your own shit. Mine is doing quite well.
Sure it's also closely tied to communism in that the state has ultimate power, no one suggested that, only that it'd be nice if the gay agenda among others are no longer shoved in everybody's face. As if America wasn't a much greater place to be about 50 years ago when not everyone was a complete douchenozzle and people had strong family values. Something you should be on board with instead of trying to troll because you're an idiot and bored.
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Old 08-16-2019, 08:20 PM   #33
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As if America wasn't a much greater place to be about 50 years ago
The 70s were a shitshow. It wasn't better. There's no magical past. If you like 'conservative' ideology, you're living in a renaissance. Read some history.

And maybe consider not white knighting communist/fascist perspectives.
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Old 08-16-2019, 08:30 PM   #34
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Don't have kids. We'll simply replace you!



What's not cute is you defending collectivism.

Communist dumbass.
Yeah, the culture be dammed! Let's just keep making our own people! The only thing I need to figure out is who my kids are going to marry when we're eventually the only decent people around because I thought the only thing I needed to do to fix the world was score with my wife constantly.
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Old 08-16-2019, 08:38 PM   #35
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Yeah, the culture be dammed!
Where do you think culture comes from? People. Where do people come from? Well, if you haven't learned the birds and bees yet, I suggest calling your dad.

Oh, and a little secret about your kids finding solid spouses...if you raise them with a solid foundation, you surround them with folks who are doing the same, in situations and circumstances where your kids are building character and meeting others doing likewise.

You don't have to have ANY children. I find that childless people are often, though not exclusively so, people who damned well shouldn't be having kids anyway. Don't worry, we'll replace you if you die alone! It's okay!

As I say to any liberal (almost exclusively liberals think this) who thinks the Earth doesn't need more kids therefore they won't have any: Thank you. Good choice!
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Old 08-16-2019, 08:46 PM   #36
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Holy hell dude, is this the best you can muster? .....Talk about jumping the shark.


Any sort of collectivism is communism, good going, Anenome. Not sure when you took the leap from conservative to libertarian but im gonna guess its so you can fight in arguments your in over your head in. Or as we have established many years ago, you simply cannot be seen in anyway as being a (racist) in any way.

Member when conservatives held themselves up as the traditionalist? Are conservatives of old the real communist?

You get a pass on this, this once. Don't use this argument again. Its making the entire site look bad. I've taken a perfectly normal human behavior that has been a thing for thousands of years and described it with a couple $2 words you get all freaked out....
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Old 08-16-2019, 10:11 PM   #37
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Holy hell dude, is this the best you can muster? .....Talk about jumping the shark.


Any sort of collectivism is communism, good going, Anenome. Not sure when you took the leap from conservative to libertarian but im gonna guess its so you can fight in arguments your in over your head in. Or as we have established many years ago, you simply cannot be seen in anyway as being a (racist) in any way.

Member when conservatives held themselves up as the traditionalist? Are conservatives of old the real communist?

You get a pass on this, this once. Don't use this argument again. Its making the entire site look bad. I've taken a perfectly normal human behavior that has been a thing for thousands of years and described it with a couple $2 words you get all freaked out....
And even cites it as communism. Apparently believing in traditions and the culture and history of the US equals communism to ol Terran here.
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Old 08-16-2019, 10:49 PM   #38
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Tribes are natural expressions of human nature with the family being the most atomic version of a tribe. These are collectives.

I think we need to make sure we separate enforced collectives vs. "good" collectivism.

Tribes grow and those which are most successful find they inherently broadcast the same moral codes and norms and then they COLLABORATIVELY adhere together. This is science which has been known and corroborated for hundreds of years most recently by Stephen Pinker and Jonathan Hiedt.

Oh no, more collectives!

People or tribes who cannot be assimilated into those collaboratively assured moral foundations, with the same vocabulary or script, are the OTHER and a threat to "your" tribe and are enemies to be wary of at the least and destroyed at maximum threat.

The places where societies collapse tend to fall into two categories:
1) Lack of collaborate and shared moral foundations.
This makes it so one member of the extended tribe no longer have a shared understanding of the rules upon which each reacts to a particular situation

2) When the STATE ties to enforce tranquility despite mismatches in the objective moral standards between tribes.

This becomes a larger and larger problem the bigger a civilization gets and the more cultures it attempts to assimilate.

Egypt lasted for so long in part because it did not consider others its equal in culture and allow things like self-rule and so on. Though, for its time, it was a large empire it was geographically not terribly distributed.

The Ottoman Empire was very strong but they were in the same boat as Egypt where they were fairly well contained geographically, though their territory was vast in sheer size it wasn't so spread out.

The earlier Persian Empire is a good example of this in a larger geographic spread but again, because they absolutely crushed their opponents, leaving lapdogs as vassals (who know what would happen if they revolted or allowed revolt) they were successful in managing it.

The best example of a "soft state" is perhaps Rome who started out brutal but eventually grew too fat for it's own good and they wanted to be a little to nice to their vassal populations (because they couldn't support the armies necessary to quell rebellion any more with all the shit happening at home!).

They failed in part because it was too wide spread. The cultural changes differences were so vast they not only had to allow large portions of self rule (which undermined Rome's governance) but they conquered geographic areas so large they could not bring everyone under their boot-heel, assimilated and fully pacified before they either moved on to get more territory or had to move their forces to put down another uprising.

Eventually they had so many problems the Eastern Roman Empire split off itself knowing the West was too weak to sustain things. The Eastern Holy Roman Empire survived the "Fall of Rome" by nearly 1000 years before its final death at the hands of the Ottoman's in the 14th century.

Soviet Communism matches what happened with Western Rome where they tried to force everyone to follow an ideology, communism, like it or not and if you disagreed then you were severely punished. For a while. Then the USSR got continuously softer until finally it failed. I wonder what would have happened if hardliners has continued to run the country.

What is happening now in the West is the failing of a State so interested in appearing compassionate they are allowing a cancer to metastasize.
Very rarely has a conquering nation *felt so bad* about their deeds they revisit the necessity for contrition down the ancestral line - 7th son of the 7th son biblical level - the way the US has done (I say rarely though I haven't found one example myself but surely there is an example somewhere).

Germany comes close with their constant taint of WWI and especially WWII though they were not a conquering nation but only the US seems to wallow so far in guilt it is willing to cradle a viper, in the form of harboring and even encouraging moral frameworks which are antithetical to those which built such an outstanding country, to it's chest.

Last edited by vallor; 08-16-2019 at 11:05 PM..
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Old 08-17-2019, 12:54 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by vallor View Post
Tribes are natural expressions of human nature with the family being the most atomic version of a tribe. These are collectives.

I think we need to make sure we separate enforced collectives vs. "good" collectivism.

Tribes grow and those which are most successful find they inherently broadcast the same moral codes and norms and then they COLLABORATIVELY adhere together. This is science which has been known and corroborated for hundreds of years most recently by Stephen Pinker and Jonathan Hiedt.

Oh no, more collectives!

People or tribes who cannot be assimilated into those collaboratively assured moral foundations, with the same vocabulary or script, are the OTHER and a threat to "your" tribe and are enemies to be wary of at the least and destroyed at maximum threat.

The places where societies collapse tend to fall into two categories:
1) Lack of collaborate and shared moral foundations.
This makes it so one member of the extended tribe no longer have a shared understanding of the rules upon which each reacts to a particular situation

2) When the STATE ties to enforce tranquility despite mismatches in the objective moral standards between tribes.

This becomes a larger and larger problem the bigger a civilization gets and the more cultures it attempts to assimilate.

Egypt lasted for so long in part because it did not consider others its equal in culture and allow things like self-rule and so on. Though, for its time, it was a large empire it was geographically not terribly distributed.

The Ottoman Empire was very strong but they were in the same boat as Egypt where they were fairly well contained geographically, though their territory was vast in sheer size it wasn't so spread out.

The earlier Persian Empire is a good example of this in a larger geographic spread but again, because they absolutely crushed their opponents, leaving lapdogs as vassals (who know what would happen if they revolted or allowed revolt) they were successful in managing it.

The best example of a "soft state" is perhaps Rome who started out brutal but eventually grew too fat for it's own good and they wanted to be a little to nice to their vassal populations (because they couldn't support the armies necessary to quell rebellion any more with all the shit happening at home!).

They failed in part because it was too wide spread. The cultural changes differences were so vast they not only had to allow large portions of self rule (which undermined Rome's governance) but they conquered geographic areas so large they could not bring everyone under their boot-heel, assimilated and fully pacified before they either moved on to get more territory or had to move their forces to put down another uprising.

Eventually they had so many problems the Eastern Roman Empire split off itself knowing the West was too weak to sustain things. The Eastern Holy Roman Empire survived the "Fall of Rome" by nearly 1000 years before its final death at the hands of the Ottoman's in the 14th century.

Soviet Communism matches what happened with Western Rome where they tried to force everyone to follow an ideology, communism, like it or not and if you disagreed then you were severely punished. For a while. Then the USSR got continuously softer until finally it failed. I wonder what would have happened if hardliners has continued to run the country.

What is happening now in the West is the failing of a State so interested in appearing compassionate they are allowing a cancer to metastasize.
Very rarely has a conquering nation *felt so bad* about their deeds they revisit the necessity for contrition down the ancestral line - 7th son of the 7th son biblical level - the way the US has done (I say rarely though I haven't found one example myself but surely there is an example somewhere).

Germany comes close with their constant taint of WWI and especially WWII though they were not a conquering nation but only the US seems to wallow so far in guilt it is willing to cradle a viper, in the form of harboring and even encouraging moral frameworks which are antithetical to those which built such an outstanding country, to it's chest.

Tribal mentality is healthy to a degree. Not as innate as you think it is into the human DNA, but to some degree, necessary none-the-less. But like anything in the world, there's a balance of course.

But what it's turned into is Stratification. Stratification. That's the name of the game, and that's the fuel that fills the fire, now.

And that's the unhealthy bit.

Solidarity among our low-class working poor, our mid class working poor - Solidarity. Whatever you think your differences are, if you want to see real change, make the public servants in fancy suits serve the people. Impose your will together. We'll sort out the rest once the government no longer represents the ownership class. We'll figure out what bathrooms transvestites should use and how we should assist people with lower skillsets after. But let's start with what we all know - the government is no longer serving it's people. Red, white, or blue, we can all get behind that. We can do this. If you get a moment or fucking two of clarity.....if we all do.
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Old 08-17-2019, 05:35 AM   #40
Terran
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Member when conservatives held themselves up as the traditionalist?
Yes. Not collectivists. Traditionalists. You know, FAMILY and FAITH, not "social obligations" or towing your special "moral" code. That's communist or fascist. They're at the same ass end of human ideology, the leftover shit that passed all the way from the brain to the butt end of society.

You want to solve society's problems? Simple, but oh so difficult for so many. FAMILY. Stable, God fearing, loyal, enduring FAMILY.

The rest is just ideological control. Commie fascist.
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