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Old 10-05-2019, 03:51 PM   #1
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Pure Evil - The Joke's on You


Back from Warner Bros. new Batman spin-off movie Joker! A lot is being made in the media right now about now Joker will inspire copycat shootings from lonely mentally ill incels and let me tell you -- they might be RIGHT.

The plot of the movie is pretty much a straightforward version of the Joker origin story. Mentally ill loser Arthur Fleck lives at home with his mother, has a crappy job and gets beat down by the system and by pretty much everyone he meets.

In true Hollywood fashion, he turns to violence to get revenge on the people who he sees as abusing him and ends up getting revenge on the whole system in the process.

A lot of the movie echoes some of the themes from Christopher Nolan's The Dark Knight Rises. In Joker the rich are evil, they hate you and they deserve whatever violence gets heaped upon them. In the comic books, Thomas Wayne is a billionaire philanthropist who takes up a career in medicine to help the poor even though he he inherited money from his wealthy parents. In Joker, Thomas Wayne is a billionaire douchebag who doesn't care about the poor, only wants to run for political office, who cheated on his wife and who at one point actually beats up poor Arthur Fleck.

It's about as far-removed from the traditional character as you can be. Because of this Mirror Universe version of the Wayne family, the Joker's eventual breakdown and violent revenge turns him into the sympathetic anti-hero.

After you see the movie, you can easily see why the media has been somewhat concerned that there may be real-life copycat violence. It's a dark story with dark characters and sudden, shocking violence, spun out in a way that the bad guys are the good guys.

In other words, it's AMAZING. There isn't nearly as much violence as you might think there would be, but when it comes it's sudden, shocking and mostly comedic. The performances here are good and you can see that this is the origin story the Joker might tell about himself - a twisted version of what really happened where everything is turned on it's head and he is the hero.

This is the type of movie Warner Bros. should be making with the DC characters. Adult, dark and depressive. As Shazam showed, when they try to be Marvel it's just bland forgettable pap. I doubt people will be forgetting Joker any time soon.

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Old 10-05-2019, 04:02 PM   #2
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I don't buy the concept that this specific dark movie is going to trigger people. There have been dark movies, dark books, dark games, and disturbing music forever, what ends up flipping a psycho isn't something people can control. Calling these out for blame is retarded. But what else should we expect from our current media but retarded things.

What I will buy... are tickets to see this next week.
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Old 10-05-2019, 05:42 PM   #3
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I don't buy the concept that this specific dark movie is going to trigger people. There have been dark movies, dark books, dark games, and disturbing music forever, what ends up flipping a psycho isn't something people can control. Calling these out for blame is retarded. But what else should we expect from our current media but retarded things.

What I will buy... are tickets to see this next week.
I won't blame the movie when it happens, but I'll bet it does "inspire" some incel to go blasting. The movie is disturbing and depressing for about 1:45 and then the last 15 minutes are just fun as fuck. Phoenix should get the oscar, but he won't because they'll be busy searching for tranny of color to pat on the back. I don't get bothered easy (last movie that really disturbed me was that one with Idris Elba and the child soldiers in Africa, and then Natural Born Killers before that) but this movie just shook me up. I think everyone can see at least a small part of themselves in Arthur Fleck (that part of us that we're revolted by), but I won't be surprised at all when someone sees themselves completely in this movie and try to use it as their guidebook for going out with a bang.

Not bad at all from the guy who brought you The Hangover.
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Old 10-05-2019, 05:43 PM   #4
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P.S. Definitely not a date movie. lol.
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Old 10-05-2019, 05:45 PM   #5
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Now do this with Lex Luthor and Bryan Cranston as Lex
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Old 10-05-2019, 06:09 PM   #6
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My prime concern going in to see this was that the obviously damaged, mentally dulled-down character from the trailer was gonna turn into a criminal mastermind by the end of the movie. It really delivered for me anyways, major goose bumps along the way and beyond the inescapable cringes (which you really couldn't have done without and is part of why it works) I couldn't fault it.

I didn't find the portrayal of wealth-envy, social scale inbalance or Thomas Wayne's cold outer shell in particular, very contrived or exaggerated (well the initial killings gaining "popularity", a little). I'm sure Wayne took good care of his own, though Bruce sure seemed a pretty sullen kid all the way from the outset, lol.

This Joker's been contorted into who he is as much by circumstances brought on by his own limitations, damage done by an uncaring mold as any inherent evil. I was left at the end feeling like the only other thing he ever could have been, was dead. Mesmerising movie, DC's way ahead of Marvel on this one.

Phoenix finally shed his brother's legend, I'd say. Never though he'd get to that point, not through Gladiator, Walk The Line or anything, though I always respected his craft.

The new Batman casting makes sense now anyhow - I'm assuming there'll be a showdown between those two down the road...
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Old 10-05-2019, 06:57 PM   #7
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My prime concern going in to see this was that the obviously damaged, mentally dulled-down character from the trailer was gonna turn into a criminal mastermind by the end of the movie. It really delivered for me anyways, major goose bumps along the way and beyond the inescapable cringes (which you really couldn't have done without and is part of why it works) I couldn't fault it.

I didn't find the portrayal of wealth-envy, social scale inbalance or Thomas Wayne's cold outer shell in particular, very contrived or exaggerated (well the initial killings gaining "popularity", a little). I'm sure Wayne took good care of his own, though Bruce sure seemed a pretty sullen kid all the way from the outset, lol.

This Joker's been contorted into who he is as much by circumstances brought on by his own limitations, damage done by an uncaring mold as any inherent evil. I was left at the end feeling like the only other thing he ever could have been, was dead. Mesmerising movie, DC's way ahead of Marvel on this one.

Phoenix finally shed his brother's legend, I'd say. Never though he'd get to that point, not through Gladiator, Walk The Line or anything, though I always respected his craft.

The new Batman casting makes sense now anyhow - I'm assuming there'll be a showdown between those two down the road...
This is a one off there going to be no next movie
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Old 10-05-2019, 07:04 PM   #8
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So this is "Falling Down" but in clown makeup?
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Old 10-06-2019, 07:53 AM   #9
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I can't wait to see it. I'm hoping I'll have some time this week in between appointments.
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Old 10-06-2019, 09:53 AM   #10
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I've seen this movie described as a mix of Taxi Driver, Falling Down and The King of Comedy. Probably going to wait til home streaming for this one...but I'm intrigued.
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Old 10-06-2019, 10:03 AM   #11
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Well.... it probably gets a bad rep due to having to complete with dark knights joker, the best combo of crazy and brilliant imo.


This joker seems to humanize him a bit more, not sure how I feel about that until I see the movie.


Hope it's good, but boy is it getting bad press, that just means it's probably a good watch regardless.
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Old 10-06-2019, 10:03 AM   #12
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It’s a shame that they already did The Dark Knight Returns storyline in Batman v Superman, because Joker shows that if they start to look at DC properties like “Adult” movies that they could all be amazing.

I would love to see this director & writer take on The Killing Joke. That would be a worthy sequel.
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Old 10-06-2019, 10:08 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vallor View Post
I don't buy the concept that this specific dark movie is going to trigger people. There have been dark movies, dark books, dark games, and disturbing music forever, what ends up flipping a psycho isn't something people can control. Calling these out for blame is retarded. But what else should we expect from our current media but retarded things.

What I will buy... are tickets to see this next week.
Iím not sure this specific movie will trigger anyone to violence, but this storyline certainly could be used by a suspect to ďjustifyĒ violence.

Iíve been thinking about this a lot because of the media furor around Joker. Itís like Stephen Kingís Rage... before Stephen King wrote Rage there had never been a school shooting. The first FIVE school shooters were all big fans of Rage. It could be said that if King hadnít written Rage that we might never have had a school shooting in this country.

Does that mean that King has some sort of responsibility for school shootings? If he hadnít written the book (or published the book, since it sat in a drawer for a lot of years before being published) we might never have had school shootings.

What responsibility do artists have if they create the pattern that other people use to justify violence?

Iím not saying they have any at all, but it is a conversation worth having.

Certainly itís worth having right now when Hollywood wants to lecture us about our political leanings, but then doesnít want to take any responsibility for the massive amount of sex and violence they throw at the public every single day.
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Old 10-06-2019, 10:31 AM   #14
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wiki- November 12, 1966 Mesa, Arizona 18-year-old Bob Smith, took seven people hostage at Rose-Mar College of Beauty, and ordered them to lie down in a circle. He shot each in the head. Four women and a 3-year-old girl died; another woman and a baby were injured but survived. Police arrested Smith, who reportedly admired Richard Speck and Charles Whitman. Smith was sentenced to death in Arizona's gas chamber, but his sentence was commuted to life when the U.S. Supreme Court ruled the death penalty unconstitutional in 1972.
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Old 10-06-2019, 10:43 AM   #15
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It was good... but I was hoping for The Killing Joke movie
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Old 10-06-2019, 02:00 PM   #16
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I thought the film was boring. Todd Phillips is a mediocre director at best & he brought nothing to the table with this project. Iím a fan of Joaquin Phoenix and thought he did fine for the script he had to work with but there was nothing in his performance here that blew me away. I found nothing in this film that was disturbing expect for the fact that everything from the dialog to the film's score was extremely on the nose. When it came to the audience, nothing was left to chance. In fact, Iím pretty sure that if this film wasnít called ĎJokerí no one would pay any attention to it all.

However, ĎJokerĒ did remind me of one thingÖ that Iím due to watch ĎThe Masterí again.
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Old 10-06-2019, 02:17 PM   #17
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Iím not sure this specific movie will trigger anyone to violence, but this storyline certainly could be used by a suspect to ďjustifyĒ violence.

Iíve been thinking about this a lot because of the media furor around Joker. Itís like Stephen Kingís Rage... before Stephen King wrote Rage there had never been a school shooting. The first FIVE school shooters were all big fans of Rage. It could be said that if King hadnít written Rage that we might never have had a school shooting in this country.

Does that mean that King has some sort of responsibility for school shootings? If he hadnít written the book (or published the book, since it sat in a drawer for a lot of years before being published) we might never have had school shootings.

What responsibility do artists have if they create the pattern that other people use to justify violence?

Iím not saying they have any at all, but it is a conversation worth having.

Certainly itís worth having right now when Hollywood wants to lecture us about our political leanings, but then doesnít want to take any responsibility for the massive amount of sex and violence they throw at the public every single day.
Going off memory here and not about to just "say it" since I respect your privacy but if I recall correctly you and I work in very similar fields. So take what I am about to say with that thought in mind.

Don't you think that some people are just deviants and are going to do bad no matter what? Following along that thought process, reading/seeing/hearing of some heinous act doesn't fuel them it simply provides the engine. Some people just dont care about social norms, the freedom of others, the respect of others, and are simply "going to do something" what they read or saw is simply the method they fall upon.

In my 16+ year long career I admittedly am a little jaded seeing the same people doing the same acts over and over but also think it's just them. They will keep doing these behaviors simply because to them it is "acceptable and normal" or they just don't care about the misery of others.

It truly is a fascinating topic to ponder if society creates the problems or the problems just don't fit society, philosophy.

I know using myself, since I grew up playing D&D, listening to heavy metal, and am a product of a broken home I should be some crazed sociopath. Instead I have been with the same wonderful woman for 21 years, have two amazing sons, and have a very stable household and career, oh also a Christian, darn Heavy Metal failed that one too!

P.S. I had zero interest in this movie because DC has been mostly okay to decent, thanks to your review my wife and I want to see this one in theaters!
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Old 10-06-2019, 04:11 PM   #18
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I’m not sure this specific movie will trigger anyone to violence, but this storyline certainly could be used by a suspect to “justify” violence.

I’ve been thinking about this a lot because of the media furor around Joker. It’s like Stephen King’s Rage... before Stephen King wrote Rage there had never been a school shooting. The first FIVE school shooters were all big fans of Rage. It could be said that if King hadn’t written Rage that we might never have had a school shooting in this country.

Does that mean that King has some sort of responsibility for school shootings? If he hadn’t written the book (or published the book, since it sat in a drawer for a lot of years before being published) we might never have had school shootings.

What responsibility do artists have if they create the pattern that other people use to justify violence?

I’m not saying they have any at all, but it is a conversation worth having.

Certainly it’s worth having right now when Hollywood wants to lecture us about our political leanings, but then doesn’t want to take any responsibility for the massive amount of sex and violence they throw at the public every single day.
No piece of entertainment media book or video-game ever made anyone do something evil. The people that do awful things there already broken and looking for the excuse to do something awful. Broken people ether find the excuse they were looking for or find away out of the dark place there in and get better. Trust me I use to live in that dark place. If I see something that inspired me to do something awful it's not that things fault it my fault I did it.
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Old 10-06-2019, 06:49 PM   #19
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It was good... but I was hoping for The Killing Joke movie
Maybe they splinter this off to a different DC Universe and do the Killing Joke next? As far as I can tell no other Joker has had the darkness Phoenix and Todd Phillips has brought to the character.

I'll know in a few days but OMG imagine the uproar if they make a live action Killing Joke.
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Old 10-07-2019, 08:40 AM   #20
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Media Horrified By Lack Of Violence At Joker Screenings

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U.S.óOur nationís intrepid journalists had been warning the country about the threat of the Joker movie and how it could encourage violence among disaffected white people and incels -- the new greatest threat to mankind. And as reporters prepared for an onslaught of violence as Joker premiered over the weekend, they were horrified by what happened: absolutely no violence or anything worth reporting on whatsoever.

ďWe found one incident of a guy cheering too loudly at the fictional violence,Ē said CNN reporter Terrance Shelton, ďbut that was it. There was nothing. Absolutely nothing we can glom onto and spin into a hot take that reinforces The Narrative. Iím shaken to my core.Ē

Journalists have already been shaken by many attacks on the press. Much of this has come from President Trump, but a lot also from reality, which has specifically gone after many of their hyped predictions and disasters. ďWe had expert opinions saying that the Joker movie was just adding fuel to the fire with all thatís going on,Ē said New York Times writer Glenn Peterson. ďAnd once again, reality has defied experts. Thatís not right.Ē

Now that opinion writers' fears have been disproven, the pundits whose predictions were completely wrong and who have demonstrated they have no grasp of how reality actually works are expecting the harshest punishment for such a journalistic failure: absolutely nothing.
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