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Old 05-18-2017, 07:02 AM   #41
SpectralThundr
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Originally Posted by Chimpbot View Post
Clearly, the words that were posted are still there.

"Silencing" people you disagree with, in this context, involves your standard frothing at the mouth about how "wrong" they are. Once you dismiss a concept as wrong, you hammer away at them with a series of buzzwords and catchphrases until they just give up...effectively silencing anyone who disagrees with you. It doesn't technically stop them from posting, but you just don't stop until people give up; it rapidly hits a point where it's just not worth saying anything in disagreement to - or even marginally different from the -the popular opinion here.

If it doesn't match up with the majority attitude, it gets pushed aside every single time. It happens here, just like it happens in other echo chambers.
I would say thats still better than banning someone, or censoring someone with a different opinion. Go try spouting a conservative view point on a left leaning site and see how long it remains. For a moderate you sure seem bitter about the popular opinion around here. Gee wonder why.
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Old 05-18-2017, 07:09 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by SpectralThundr View Post
I would say thats still better than banning someone, or censoring someone with a different opinion. Go try spouting a conservative view point on a left leaning site and see how long it remains. For a moderate you sure seem bitter about the popular opinion around here. Gee wonder why.
As I mentioned previously, I hate extreme leanings, regardless of what side of the aisle they fall in. Hard-Right folks are just as insufferable as Hard-Left, for very different (and some extremely similar) reasons.

There's no outright banning here, but it's not the only method used to chase people away who disagree.
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Old 05-18-2017, 07:11 AM   #43
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Clearly, the words that were posted are still there.
Your posts on this are complete nonsense. Absolute lunacy. Someone whose speech continues freely has not been silenced. Just because you don't feel 'listened to' by someone else does not mean you have been silenced. I just find it absolutely amazing you think dismissing an idea is silencing it. The entire discussion around this disproves your point completely.

WTF. SMH completely here. :facepalm:
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Old 05-18-2017, 07:15 AM   #44
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Your posts on this are complete nonsense. Absolute lunacy. Someone whose speech continues freely has not been silenced. Just because you don't feel 'listened to' by someone else does not mean you have been silenced. I just find it absolutely amazing you think dismissing an idea is silencing it. The entire discussion around this disproves your point completely.

WTF. SMH completely here. :facepalm:
You're missing the point. Entirely.

Allow me to cut and paste the part that you conveniently omitted:

"Once you dismiss a concept as wrong, you hammer away at them with a series of buzzwords and catchphrases until they just give up...effectively silencing anyone who disagrees with you. It doesn't technically stop them from posting, but you just don't stop until people give up; it rapidly hits a point where it's just not worth saying anything in disagreement to - or even marginally different from -the popular opinion here.

If it doesn't match up with the majority attitude, it gets pushed aside every single time. It happens here, just like it happens in other echo chambers."

This is how you do it, every single time.
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Old 05-18-2017, 07:15 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Chimpbot View Post
You're either saying something similar to the group, or you're wrong.
You realize that is how groups work, correct? Nobody is debating that. You are even doing the same thing in your post, which is just fine.

The difference is the left doesn't just say "You are wrong!" they try to shut you down and get you fired as well. The right just says 'You are wrong!" but lets you say your peace. That is the difference. Free speech and all.

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For what it's worth, you actually disagreed with the notion and immediately dismissed it. This would, technically speaking, be a method of silencing someone.
What? Regardless of whether Terran dismisses it, others can still read it and form their own opinions. How is that even remotely close to "silencing"?
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Old 05-18-2017, 07:22 AM   #46
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You realize that is how groups work, correct? Nobody is debating that. You are even doing the same thing in your post, which is just fine.

The difference is the left doesn't just say "You are wrong!" they try to shut you down and get you fired as well. The right just says 'You are wrong!" but lets you say your peace. That is the difference. Free speech and all.



What? Regardless of whether Terran dismisses it, others can still read it and form their own opinions. How is that even remotely close to "silencing"?
Well, it's like this:

"Once you dismiss a concept as wrong, you hammer away at them with a series of buzzwords and catchphrases until they just give up...effectively silencing anyone who disagrees with you. It doesn't technically stop them from posting, but you just don't stop until people give up; it rapidly hits a point where it's just not worth saying anything in disagreement to - or even marginally different from -the popular opinion here.

If it doesn't match up with the majority attitude, it gets pushed aside every single time. It happens here, just like it happens in other echo chambers."

People are silenced and driven away, just the same.
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Old 05-18-2017, 07:35 AM   #47
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People are silenced and driven away, just the same.
So you're a snowflake defending the right of other snowflakes to have a heckler's veto over others' potential disagreement with snowflakes' opinions, because disagreement is scary and they might just give up unless those who disagree give up disagreeing.

FFS, this is the biggest pile of childish BS nonsense I've ever seen you post on here. Disagreement is not silencing. If people don't want to continue to post and defend their ideas, that's nobody's problem but their own. Post away, all day, disagree all you like. A lack of a warm embrace for your ideas is no more silencing them than it would be if I went to Daily Kos or HuffPo and whined about people disagreeing with me and therefore 'silencing' me by disagreeing. For that matter, EvAv was inhospitable to conservative folks for quite a long while. I defended my ideas against raging hordes of liberals with few to none posting on my side of the aisle for years in the politics sub-forum. I wasn't silenced by their disagreement and disparagement, I was in the minority.
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Old 05-18-2017, 04:10 PM   #48
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Refuses to answer questions.
My earlier assertions were declared ridiculous by you, with no basis or proof. You claimed I was misusing the term alt-right, so I admitted I may have been using that term incorrectly and asked you what term I should use.

But, you refuse to answer any questions and therefore, I think you are a troll, in he context of arguing just to keep an argument going without making any point or contributing any clarifying information when asked.

So, if this is your stance and attitude, and you won't even support your own statements, then what point is there to discussing this with you? I conclude that there is none.
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Old 05-18-2017, 04:20 PM   #49
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You don't seem the understand the inherent problem in your argument. Compare your first sentence versus your own admission at the end:
You, a self-identified Leftist, have admitted that you feel the particular flavor of ideology being "crammed down" the throats of readers is off-putting. If a self-identified Leftist is sick of it, is it really logical to claim the problem may be that this supposed "alt right consumer world" is damning this particular comic?
I think I see your point here. I was perhaps giving too much credit to Terran's representation of what was problematic in the magazine and to whom that was a problem. I also read into it what I know of Coates from other contexts and assumed that he was deliberately poking the right. Furthering the problem, I may have been misusing the term alt-right.

I assume that there is a strong contingent of right leaning comic buyers as there seems to be on this forum. I have no data to support this, it is just a personal opinion. I would also assume that any group would be displeased by deliberate partisan poking from the opposition, and if this were involved, I can certainly see how it would lead to that being a commercial failure.

My other point, albeit a minor one, was that I am not that fond of heavy handed moralizing in superhero stories either in comic books or film. Recently the great themes seem a bit much and the humor and fantasy of the early, goofy comics seems to have been completely abandoned. REmember when super heroes were fighting people robbing banks and jewelry stores with cloth sacks and black masks? Not everything needs to involve global surveillance, apocalyptic destruction, deep personal angst about family trauma, and horrific psychological torture. I really liked the old goofy comics because they were an escape. I may be the only one.
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Old 05-18-2017, 04:40 PM   #50
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Well, let's face facts though. This forum is a pretty right side of the line forum.

And there's a lot of nana-nana-boo-boo after a while because there are a lot of people who like to be the "I told you so" person.

And there are just as many people who think they can drown people out and because they are still letting people talk (even if their being talked over) which is totally different than "silencing" someone, amirite or amirite?

And there are just as many people who use the same talking points over and over like crutches in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary because, like bell bottoms, they're sure to come back in style. Insanity, same thing over and over again, etc..

And there are just as many people who just don't give a fuck and will say whatever it takes to get a rise out of people.

But the saddest of them all, the most pathetic and pitiable, the ones lost to the darkness and those who we must shed our tears over. Those poor ijits are the ones who who think they'll actually make a dent when arguing against Terran and Spectral.

God have mercy on their souls.
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Old 05-18-2017, 06:53 PM   #51
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My earlier assertions were declared ridiculous by you, with no basis or proof.
Argumentum Ad Ignorantium. You made an assertion. Defend it or abandon it because, as I said, it is a ridiculous one.

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You claimed I was misusing the term alt-right, so I admitted I may have been using that term incorrectly and asked you what term I should use.
How the HELL should I know what term you should use for a community of people you fail to define yourself? DEFINE YOUR OWN IDEAS. I'm not your Google translator. Bring order to your own thoughts.

Quote:
But, you refuse to answer any questions and therefore, I think you are a troll, in he context of arguing just to keep an argument going without making any point or contributing any clarifying information when asked.
You fail to defend your assertion, you fail to even clearly define what the hell you are referring to when you discuss the "alt right" and I'm the one who refuses to answer questions or contribute or clarify?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

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you won't even support your own statements
Argumentum Ad Ignorantium. You made an assertion. Defend it or abandon it because, as I said, it is a ridiculous one.

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I assume that there is a strong contingent of right leaning comic buyers as there seems to be on this forum. I have no data to support this
And there we have it. Troll and liar.

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God have mercy on their souls.
Because I won't.
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Old 05-19-2017, 12:50 AM   #52
SpectralThundr
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Well, let's face facts though. This forum is a pretty right side of the line forum.

And there's a lot of nana-nana-boo-boo after a while because there are a lot of people who like to be the "I told you so" person.

And there are just as many people who think they can drown people out and because they are still letting people talk (even if their being talked over) which is totally different than "silencing" someone, amirite or amirite?

And there are just as many people who use the same talking points over and over like crutches in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary because, like bell bottoms, they're sure to come back in style. Insanity, same thing over and over again, etc..

And there are just as many people who just don't give a fuck and will say whatever it takes to get a rise out of people.

But the saddest of them all, the most pathetic and pitiable, the ones lost to the darkness and those who we must shed our tears over. Those poor ijits are the ones who who think they'll actually make a dent when arguing against Terran and Spectral.

God have mercy on their souls.
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Old 05-19-2017, 01:22 AM   #53
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Hey, they cancelled that Black Panther comic? Well that doesn't bode well for the movie. Was it badly written or--Oh. Oh we're discussing nonsense? Excuse me, I'll show myself out.
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Old 05-19-2017, 04:46 AM   #54
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It was badly written. Seems people at marvel are of the belief that you can only write about characters of your own race. That's why they hired a nobody latino lesbian to write America. That shit is going to be cancelled soon as well.
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Old 05-19-2017, 07:20 AM   #55
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Hey, they cancelled that Black Panther comic? Well that doesn't bode well for the movie. Was it badly written or--Oh. Oh we're discussing nonsense? Excuse me, I'll show myself out.
It's hitting theaters in nine months; I doubt the cancellation of this one book will impact anything, especially after the reception the character had in Civil War. One crappy book tanking isn't going to torpedo the MCU version of the character. The movie sounds like it'll be pretty good, based on the synopsis.
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Old 05-19-2017, 07:59 AM   #56
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The problem with Black Panther is that he is too perfect. His stories become boring quickly. Let's hope that's not the case with movie Black Panther.
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:02 AM   #57
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Well, let's face facts though. This forum is a pretty right side of the line forum.
I agree. And, in response to your earlier point, I didn't realize that alt-right was a term of shame, but I have tried to walk that back and use a different term. I asked for suggestions about what term would be appropriate, and you are the only one who seems to be responding in a helpful way, so conservative might be better. American wouldn't really work in this context because a, it would be too depressing to admit the fact that this word really has become a term of shame, and also because it catches up both sides of the distinction.

So, if we stipulate that this is a "pretty right side of the line forum", my question for those who are more in the know than I am is , is the current comic purchasing audience similarly right side, or not? Again, I'm just curious. My opinion is that it was, but I'm willing to modify that.

Chimpbot is correct that Terran will repeat himself ad nauseum, vaguely pretending he is discussing something, but never contributing, Is that the definition of troll? Spectralthunder answered my questions by saying I was a whiny bitch, so that doesn't really give me a data point.

In terms of the term alt-right, is this a term that nobody ever applies to themselves, but that is applied by opponents to their ideas? I don't think anybody ever calls himself a snowflake or a SJW, but maybe originally people did call themselves SJW. I honestly don't know whether that term started as genuine or derisive.

My sense is that people who are racists rarely call themselves racist or admit that they are racist, but they might espouse social theories thinking they are just being accurate, or brave enough to state the truth, or something like that, thinking that they are defending themselves from being actual racists but not realizing that this is what racists actually do. So, bring up white privilege for example, and some people will go into the red zone, not recognizing any inherent racism, but simultaneously explicitly rationalizing that there is no racism. Perhaps the alt-right is similar.

Conversely, I don't' see progressive or liberal as shame terms, but snowflake does seem insulting.
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:06 AM   #58
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It's hitting theaters in nine months; I doubt the cancellation of this one book will impact anything, especially after the reception the character had in Civil War. One crappy book tanking isn't going to torpedo the MCU version of the character. The movie sounds like it'll be pretty good, based on the synopsis.
I didn't say the comic would hurt the film, I said the character's solo comic book did not bode well for the film. The public may just not like the King of the hyper advanced African country who dresses as a cat and does... stuff. Think indicator, not causality.
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:31 AM   #59
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Logic, facts and scientific truth tends to trump muh feels valor. As it should.
Well there are "facts" and there are facts then there are fact-facts.

2+2=4 is a fact-fact.

Much of regular science rarely makes it out of the fact stage though there are some exceptions such as the laws of thermodynamics are probably closer to fact-facts than fact, but even those can be superseded by new discoveries like quantum mechanics.

I think most of us here agree Climate Change is a "fact" but for most of the rest of the world it's a fact.

Currently gender dysphoria as a mental illness is a scientific fact.

So I'd be careful before you use the "I only argue with facts" line
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:32 AM   #60
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I didn't say the comic would hurt the film, I said the character's solo comic book did not bode well for the film. The public may just not like the King of the hyper advanced African country who dresses as a cat and does... stuff. Think indicator, not causality.
So, you're not saying the comic will hurt the film, but that the comic will...hurt...the film.

This wasn't his first solo book; it was just the most recent. I don't think it will have any impact upon the film, especially given the very positive reception the character had in Civil War.
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