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Old 06-01-2015, 01:08 AM   #21
bean19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Syl View Post
Why? It's an awesome operating system so far.
Does it require that you login with a Microsoft account so they can track you on all their Windows apps for market data and to try to sell you shit through the Windows store? I'm using Windows 8 and it was a pain to learn how to keep it from doing that. Honestly, I want a bare bones operating system that just runs efficiently and doesn't get in the way of gaming, but also isn't a chore to keep running like a Linux build with a Windows sandbox for gaming.
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Old 06-01-2015, 01:23 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Syl View Post
Why? It's an awesome operating system so far.
7 is fine. Changing OS's is a big deal and 7 works fine. I like 7.

I don't want them to force me to move to 10, which they will.
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Old 06-01-2015, 04:45 AM   #23
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Really don't want Win10.
Then don't get it then. No-one if FORCING you to have it.
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Old 06-01-2015, 04:47 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by bean19 View Post
Does it require that you login with a Microsoft account so they can track you on all their Windows apps for market data and to try to sell you shit through the Windows store? I'm using Windows 8 and it was a pain to learn how to keep it from doing that. Honestly, I want a bare bones operating system that just runs efficiently and doesn't get in the way of gaming, but also isn't a chore to keep running like a Linux build with a Windows sandbox for gaming.
Windows 8 did not REQUIRE or FORCE you to to use a Microsoft account. Of course, obviously, if you want the store then you have to add one but, other than that, nope, nadda, just log in as a normal user and ignore.

I'm thinking that you MUST have known this?
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Old 06-01-2015, 04:47 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by BeachGaara View Post
7 is fine. Changing OS's is a big deal and 7 works fine. I like 7.

I don't want them to force me to move to 10, which they will.
They WILL NOT FORCE you! Where is this coming from?
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Old 06-01-2015, 04:59 AM   #26
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Finally a gpu worth trading my 580s in for!

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Originally Posted by bean19 View Post
Yeah. That was my thought. . . I'd like a kick-ass card like this but I'd really need to upgrade to a 4K monitor to get much use out of it.
1440P also benefits massively from increased GPU horsepower.....that being said I am likely to upgrade to this 4K monster hopefully in the near future.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTAWgRsrPsM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeachGaara View Post
7 is fine. Changing OS's is a big deal and 7 works fine. I like 7.

I don't want them to force me to move to 10, which they will.
Given the very noticeable performance improvements offered by DX12, Win 7 is unlikely to be fine for most gamers.

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/projec...or-dx12-on-pc/
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Old 06-01-2015, 06:33 AM   #27
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They never made users switch to 8, even after 8.1. In fact, they extended the street date and OEM allowance of 7. "But Rommel, they had to be forced to allow that." Yeah, still did it, didn't they?

I have machines running on both 7&8.1. Surprise, surprise--8.1 is faster and more stable. Just as promised. Everyone who has used 10 has commented that it's the speed of 8 with the usability of 7 combined with the niceties of OSX/iOS. Plus, they're giving us a new DX that improves every game to utilize it substantially. If you don't want to upgrade, fine. Just don't bitch that Microsoft is harming or forcing you to do anything in any way. That just makes you a liar.
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Old 06-01-2015, 07:37 AM   #28
MasterKwan
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Does it require that you login with a Microsoft account so they can track you on all their Windows apps for market data and to try to sell you shit through the Windows store? I'm using Windows 8 and it was a pain to learn how to keep it from doing that. Honestly, I want a bare bones operating system that just runs efficiently and doesn't get in the way of gaming, but also isn't a chore to keep running like a Linux build with a Windows sandbox for gaming.
In Bean's defense, they don't make it obvious how to avoid this step. I had to google it.

I'll never buy another AMD card. They talk a bunch of shit and the images of their tech are very pretty but they always over promise and under-deliver. I have a GTX780 currently which plays Witcher 3 at 2560x1440 just fine. I'd like to upgrade but so far no game has required it yet.
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Old 06-01-2015, 07:50 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeachGaara View Post
Really don't want Win10.
I think you'll end up changing your mind.
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Old 06-01-2015, 08:18 AM   #30
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I don't understand the crazy talk about AMD being bad. I use/used both for a long time and had problems and success with both.

I want AMD to be better than they are currently because competition is good and because it will help further development by pressure against nvidia.

I really hope this HBM thing works well. I've read about it and it seems pretty nice.
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Old 06-01-2015, 08:51 AM   #31
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I don't understand the crazy talk about AMD being bad. I use/used both for a long time and had problems and success with both.

I want AMD to be better than they are currently because competition is good and because it will help further development by pressure against nvidia.

I really hope this HBM thing works well. I've read about it and it seems pretty nice.
Exactly. I must have been living in a dream the last 15 years because I've only ever ran ATI/AMD on my mains and I've never really had many issues. In fact, I prefer AMD drivers because they're adjustment settings in the drivers just make more sense to me than nVidia's.
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Old 06-01-2015, 08:58 AM   #32
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Exactly. I must have been living in a dream the last 15 years because I've only ever ran ATI/AMD on my mains and I've never really had many issues. In fact, I prefer AMD drivers because they're adjustment settings in the drivers just make more sense to me than nVidia's.
Not mentioning AMD does better video processing algorithms than nvidia. Scaling and interpolation, etc seems always better on AMD to me.
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Old 06-01-2015, 11:58 AM   #33
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I'm still running two SLI-ed GTX-570s in my aging gaming rig. Though it still runs most things on higher settings at around 40-60. Been waiting for the right card(s) to upgrade to. Are we thinking this is the one? Also been considering two 970's. Not terribly interested in 4K gaming just yet, but I do run a 3 monitor setup. Can one of these 980ti's even run 3 monitors?
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Old 06-01-2015, 12:21 PM   #34
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Some serious misconceptions about exactly what HBM is bringing to the table, and also some things not being taken into account. Another thing, HBM is a generic term for 3D RAM stacking on package with the CPU- AMD's implementation is certainly not the only method available, and in fact is inferior in some important ways to what we will see coming from nVidia in the not too distant future(although at this point in time they need to do it the way they are regardless).

First off, I have been a *big* proponent of moving in this direction dating back over a decade, this exact implementation at this exact time has some drawbacks that people should keep in mind so they don't have their hopes crushed when this thing finally hits.

First off, HBM isn't going to help us in any meaningful way for titles that are GPU/compute bound at all really. The biggest improvement, and quite honestly one that should be absolutely huge, is going to be in say DX9 and earlier games using absurd levels of MSAA- think 16x ballpark. In those specific situations I wouldn't be shocked to see improvements in the x00% range. Moving forward certain design considerations that are generally avoided won't have to be anymore, but we aren't going to see those elements hitting anything resembling mainstream adoption until nVidia gets this out and then add ~18 months or so- nothing in the short term is going to she a huge benefit in terms of the latest and greatest games.

The biggest drawback this is going to have is the utterly insane amount of heat generation they are going to have to deal with. It wouldn't shock me if the 390x required water cooling out of the gate. AMD's designs are very...... old school. They are several generations behind on any performance/watt metric, and this particular design only accentuates that problem.

By placing additional thermal energy on the same package as the GPU you are increasing the cooling requirements- the 290x is already notorious for its' cooling issues and anything short of high quality third party coolers will result in thermal throttling when it hits its 92C throttling point- by way of comparison the 980Ti is a full 10C cooler then that when overclocked, roughly 50% more performance for almost identical power usage.

Obviously this is a new design, but it is also a design that was meant for a now cancelled fabrication process and with the added thermal strain of HBM- not that it is huge, but it is real, GPU limited situations may suffer a bit due to HBM. It is possible that the 390x could be, say, 7% faster in Witcher 3 using GDDR5 over HBM, and 76% slower in Half Life 2 with 16x MSAA(numbers firmly pulled out of rectum).

Quote:
Nvidia invested a ton of energy into a similar technology to HBM, but couldn't get it working right. So eventually they just gave in and decided to make HBM the next standard. Big failure for nvidia but honestly a big win for AMD and consumers in general. Less fragmentation in terms of videocards, could you imagine how much driver performance would differ game to game if the two rivals utilized completely different memory architecture?
Holy shit, hard to imagine less accuracy

No, nVidia is not using AMD's method. They may use the HBM moniker, but their approach is quite different. AMD's approach has the memory stacked on the outside of GPU on the packaging, nVidia's approach is to stack the memory directly on the GPU. In a theoretical sense nVidia's approach has higher peak performance, at the cost of being more challenging to cool. With their staggering advantage in perf/watt, and the fact that they aren't pushing it out until 16nm, this shouldn't be a major consideration for when they actually launch.

Pretty much every video card produced uses a different memory architecture- some of them wildly different, some- like the 970, unlike anything we have seen before. You know how much difference this makes? Zip. You do not have direct access to the video card memory, you can't manually do shit, the driver handles it- the memory layout and configuration are entirely outside of your ability to deal with. There are *NO* issues with differing configurations impacting end users. If one company wanted to ship a board with 0 on board memory using some mythical PCIE 1024x with 1ns latency the end user would be none the wiser.

Quote:
I don't understand the crazy talk about AMD being bad.
One of the problems is AMD is one of the dumbest companies ever- hands down the dumbest in the tech industry by miles. I could go on and on about their idiocy(selling off IP that generates billions per quarter for $65 million) but in the realm of video cards and the perception of their drivers the two worst possible things you could do we be to have problems in Call of Duty and World of Warcraft. Call of Duty has had issues for going on half a year now, World of Warcraft has had issues almost constantly in one area or another(performance being the big one right now). AMD is so hell bent looking good on benchmark charts that they regularly piss off hundreds of thousands of gamers in the process- these people leave to go to nV, and rarely look back.

Quote:
Not mentioning AMD does better video processing algorithms than nvidia. Scaling and interpolation, etc seems always better on AMD to me.
Been away from nVidia for a long ass time I take it? Shadowplay. Really, it isn't even remotely close anymore. I honestly don't normally count this against AMD because it is a game they don't seem to be playing.
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Old 06-01-2015, 12:56 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by BenSkywlkr View Post
By placing additional thermal energy on the same package as the GPU you are increasing the cooling requirements- the 290x is already notorious for its' cooling issues and anything short of high quality third party coolers will result in thermal throttling when it hits its 92C throttling point- by way of comparison the 980Ti is a full 10C cooler then that when overclocked, roughly 50% more performance for almost identical power usage

....., nVidia's approach is to stack the memory directly on the GPU. In a theoretical sense nVidia's approach has higher peak performance, at the cost of being more challenging to cool. With their staggering advantage in perf/watt, and the fact that they aren't pushing it out until 16nm, this shouldn't be a major consideration for when they actually launch.
Dude, first you say that the 290x has cooling problems and that stacking RAM on the GPU would create problems, but all of that magically goes away when nVidia goes to 16nm?

You're clearly intelligent but this comes off as a little fanboyish.

Also, AMD has done a fucking fantastic job with it's GPU department, despite having much less cash to spend on R&D.
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Old 06-01-2015, 03:56 PM   #36
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Been away from nVidia for a long ass time I take it? Shadowplay. Really, it isn't even remotely close anymore. I honestly don't normally count this against AMD because it is a game they don't seem to be playing.
Well, I'm writting this on an AMD machine, but the one (newer) I use at home is nVidia. I much prefer the AMD even when using the same external display. For reference, this machine is running an 7000 generation AMD and the other is a 700 generation geforce.
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Old 06-01-2015, 04:13 PM   #37
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Exactly. I must have been living in a dream the last 15 years because I've only ever ran ATI/AMD on my mains and I've never really had many issues. In fact, I prefer AMD drivers because they're adjustment settings in the drivers just make more sense to me than nVidia's.
Right, you don't know what you're talking about then. I on the other hand have run both. Both from the GX780 generation and hands down the Nvidia outperformed the AMD on every game I tried it on. Even on games where the AMD was supposed to have parity, in the real world the experience was a stuttery mess at the same res that ran smooth on the nvidia. AMD is known for having frame rates that average out close to the same gen Nvidia but have periodic long frame times which cause the game to stutter.

AMD has better 2D. Meaning when I'm programming AMD typically has better looking text but game wise, there's really no contest.

I'm not a total NVidia fanboy. Their drivers install a bunch of crap I have no interest in and I have to re-disable every time I install updated drivers. Nothing is perfect I guess.
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Old 06-01-2015, 05:02 PM   #38
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but all of that magically goes away when nVidia goes to 16nm?
Yes.... a magic mortal men call "science"

http://semiengineering.com/power-reduction-techniques/

To further my point, Crysis 3 the 980ti is 84.8% faster then the 290x operating in uber mode while using slightly less then 3% more power.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9306/t...0-ti-review/17

nVidia is already *SIGNIFICANTLY* more efficient on a performance per watt basis, to an absurd degree at the moment, and then you get the natural power reductions of switching from 28nm to 16nm.

Combine these supernatural elements and they make something magical

Quote:
I much prefer the AMD even when using the same external display.
Back in the old days of DSub15 being the common connector for monitors graphics cards had a digital to analog converter(DAC) that would process the binary into a wavelength to transmit it to the monitor. While the graphics cards all may have started with an identical set of binary data, the DAC would entirely determine the signal quality sent to the display. The only way to get around this, and make it a complete non issue would be to come up with a way that we would keep the signal digital from origin to display.

We did that.

Calibrate your gear- there should be 0 difference between two electronic devices outputting an identical binary signal.
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Old 06-01-2015, 06:20 PM   #39
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Blah blah, just more numbers. I'll be in awe when they give us a card that can render real life graphics. No joke.
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Old 06-01-2015, 08:13 PM   #40
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Right, you don't know what you're talking about then. I on the other hand have run both.
Did I say I haven't ran both? Read it again, I clearly said I only run AMD/ATI on my mains.
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