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Old 01-17-2018, 11:12 PM   #921
vallor
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Michael Wolff's Fire and Fury may become a TV show despite being disavowed, as expected, by the White House and (unexpectedly) a slew of people who were misquoted from the left side of the isle including the Washington Post and the New York Times.

Also despite being riddled with a magnificent number of factual errors Wolff refuses to accept any accountability for worthiness despite holding onto the title of "journalist".

Finally, he admits that at least several portions of the book were derived from casual conversations, dinners, and meetings which have traditionally been explicitly "off the record" but he ignored this convention to add extra salaciousness to the book. In particularly he speaks to a section about a dinner with Roger Ailes which he decided later was too important to remain "off the record" after Roger died.

I hate watching The View but I think Cindy McCain does have a few good minutes at the beginning. Then it goes into the typical leftist View rant about what they think about Steve Bannon and Trump and blah blah blah.

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Old 01-18-2018, 12:33 AM   #922
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Ok, response 1! I'm catching up from about 6 pages ago.

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I'll ask a legit question. As a liberal, I feel like I don't understand the perspective of people who feel that immigration is a huge problem.
Illegal immigration is a problem. Immigration without assimilation is a problem. Immigration without contribution is a problem.

And let's be totally clear about something: these are not "undocumented citizens" they have plenty of documentation of their citizenship for their own country of origin. They are ILLEGAL aliens, or ILLEGAL immigrants. They didn't leave their ID in their other pants or something, they are criminals.

Come to America, add something to the melting pot and take something from the melting pot. Add to the economy and BE AN AMERICAN. Have as much pride in your past as you like and respect your roots but also be aware you are now living and have the opportunities in front of you available from the privilege of living in the greatest country in the world. I don't care how you feel, California is in the United States and consider yourself lucky the US didn't need any more desert land so gave back enough of North Mexico that Mexico City isn't a border town.

Don't squander that by wanting to be more like Shithole-a-stan. People think White Privilege is powerful? Try having AMERICAN PRIVILEGE. That is fucking world-class. Immigrants need to understand that value. They need to earn and cherish it.

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People on the right seem to be operating from a perspective that immigrants are having a huge impact on this country and are taking jobs, money, resources, and opportunities away from US citizens.
They are. For each job an illegal immigrant takes, or each welfare dollar, or each dollar spent on an ICE salary, or LEO salary or Jail electric bill (you realize how much of our prison population is illegal immigrants) or a dollar that is paying so every school in the district can run extra classrooms which are Spanish speaking only because the kids can't be bothered to learn English. That's a dollar from my pocket. Or a dollar that isn't going to opiate abuse programs in Applicacia where the poorest of Americans, black and white, are struggling with the worst results of globalization and the "green" economy push.

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all of the job she wants as opposed to thinking he can't find a job because rich people just shuttered his factory to move it to some place more profitable
You really have a hard on for painting rich people as evil. They do what they can do to make money; as much as they can. In this case the good ol' leftist policies of globalization, open borders, and green technology gave them all the ammunition they needed to grow the income equality gap to levels not seen since the days of slaves vs. kings.

Rich people made lemonade from lemons. They are going to find a different way to do it now that President Trump is backing out of a lot of the Green economy, hoping to clamp down on immigration, and bringing back a sense of nationalism in industry.

Blue collar Bob will have to survive as best he can. Will fewer illegal immigrants help him out? Probably not because if the government is doing their job right rather than finding more ways to spend their surplus money they have now from not putting it towards illegal aliens they are NOT taking it from their citizens in the first place.

I suspect there will be programs for Blue Collar Bob to take advantage of, just like there are now. Paid for by taxes, not just his but also by the tremendous amount of Employment taxes his employer pays.

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My larger question would be more along the lines of given any social or economic issue in the US, do conservatives always blame the poorest and weakest as opposed to the wealthiest and most powerful? Are liberals the opposite?
The 1% aren't the ones ruining the cities and the streets. They aren't the ones importing Sharia law and doing back alley FGM in Dearborn MI. They aren't the ones running around with signs saying "Make California Mexico Again". They aren't the ones voting for Sanctuary City status so people can be released from jail and instead of being properly handed over for deportation are let free to find a gun from an LEOs car and murder an innocent girl.

Simply put the 1% aren't the ones destroying America except in the eyes of people who feel that rich people must be doing something inherently evil or unfair to have earned their wealth. Your poorest and weakest are. They're driving up the cost of living, their driving down the value of property, their consuming an amazing amount of tax dollars directly and indirectly.

Do I think some of the tricks and loopholes available to rich people on taxes and so on are bullshit? Yes, but they aren't ruining America as much as the millions and millions of dollars required in taxes to support a poor illegal immigrant population (or immigrant population at all maybe? since we can't ask in California any more). For example San Diego pays for extra language services for immigrants. The school district itself estimated fully 20% of its students don't speak English. Then the additional millions they spend in having contracts with professional psychiatrists to help students who are having problems adjusting to America and the millions they spend on ADULT outreach and services which is all laid out in their 120 Million bucks 2017 budget.

They have a huge 15 person Translation Department thanks to a state law which requires all materials be translated if 15% of any class K-12 speaks another language besides English all materials have to be duplicated in those languages as well as English.

So, in this microcosm of just the San Diego public school budget of 120 million dollars I have to wonder how much of MY ACTUAL money would be saved in this next year if enforced English for everyone who wanted to be in America and take advantage of American services.

Not just children but also adults. And these little things like translation services are duplicated at every level. From the school to the DMV to the courts... pretty much every city of any size is bound to have a large and diverse staff of translators. Not just on the off chance but on the KNOWN expectation they'll run into someone who will want to use government services on a regular basis but won't be respectful enough to learn the language.

San Diego's General Fund is something like 1.4 Billion Dollars. How many translation departments does that have to support because it's too much to ask people to be here legally and, if they are here legally, to at least speak, read, and write English well enough to operate at a minimal level with the government?

And how can you not possibility see the waste and possibility for fraud and abuse at a massive scale in this? I'd rather 100 hedge fund managers to get away and cheat their way to $10m a year than the 1,400,000 (legal?) citizens of San Diego be taken for a ride by the government.

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Lastly, and this goes in a whole other direction, but gets back to my original theme of Liberals acting like idiots, Why does anybody read what President Trump tweets?
I think without Twitter Trump would not be heard. The MSM would shut him down and spin any message he or Sarah Huckabee-Sanders sent out through "normal" channels. We've seen it done time and again. Even with the simplest statements the typical outlets grab their angle and just chew it to pieces.

That said I think he sometimes does a disservice to the dignity of the office but I'd rather have heard what he had to say than have CNN decide what I'm allowed to hear the President say. Having Acosta, Rachel Maddow, or even Anderson Cooper be my filter is just as bad as relying on Milo Yiannopoulos or Alex Jones be my conduit for information these days. Since they lack all credibility where else am I suppose to get the real skinny?

Last edited by vallor; 01-18-2018 at 12:46 AM..
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Old 01-18-2018, 02:13 PM   #923
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Donald Trump rejects the Amnesty Bill proposed by Democrats in Congress... sorry I mean the "Immigration Bill" and makes sure to call out the Democrats as the responsible party as the Government is threatened with shutdown.

Thanks to Twitter the Dems are going to have to shoulder the blame for the shutdown for once as they insist on fighting for the rights of criminals over the good of real American citizens.

Without Trump talking directly through twitter the only message I'd get is how unreasonable Trump and the Republicans are being from "reliable and credible" sources like CNN, MSNBC, the NYTs, and Washington Post.

They're about as reliable as Alex "the lizard people inhabit the middle of the world" Jones of Infowars, Wikipedia's page on Gamergate, or Michael Wolff's "Fire and Fury" book based half on fiction, half on hersey, and half on on "off the record" he decided shouldn't be off the record any more (common core math makes that work).
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Old 01-18-2018, 08:15 PM   #924
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Originally Posted by vallor View Post
Donald Trump rejects the Amnesty Bill proposed by Democrats in Congress... sorry I mean the "Immigration Bill" and makes sure to call out the Democrats as the responsible party as the Government is threatened with shutdown.

Thanks to Twitter the Dems are going to have to shoulder the blame for the shutdown for once as they insist on fighting for the rights of criminals over the good of real American citizens.

Without Trump talking directly through twitter the only message I'd get is how unreasonable Trump and the Republicans are being from "reliable and credible" sources like CNN, MSNBC, the NYTs, and Washington Post.

They're about as reliable as Alex "the lizard people inhabit the middle of the world" Jones of Infowars, Wikipedia's page on Gamergate, or Michael Wolff's "Fire and Fury" book based half on fiction, half on hersey, and half on on "off the record" he decided shouldn't be off the record any more (common core math makes that work).
You answered your own question as to why the left is such in a tizzy anytime The Donald tweets, they no longer can control the narrative and more and more people realize just how fake CNN, MSNBC and the rest of the loony left actually are.

It's such rich delusional shit how people like Whimple blame the 1% when it's those on the left whose policies created the wealth gap to begin with.
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Old 01-19-2018, 03:35 AM   #925
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#releasethememo.

Here we go folks.
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Old 01-19-2018, 05:25 AM   #926
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#releasethememo.

Here we go folks.
Damn straight. Let's get a look at how 'fair minded' and 'apolitical' and 'neutral' these bastard spooks and bureaucrats really are.

#DoItNow
#ReleasetheMemo
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Old 01-19-2018, 06:08 AM   #927
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Old 01-19-2018, 11:17 AM   #928
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Meh. Sessions is a failure even if they did release it nothing would come of it. I truly believe Sessions is likely so deep in the swamp himself to begin with. We all know Obama and Hillary are treasonous and belong in jail. Hell even the liberals have to know this by now, there's too much evidence out there to say otherwise.
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Old 01-19-2018, 01:58 PM   #929
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I want twitter sued into fucking oblivion. Yesterday that hashtag had over 700k tweets. 10X more than any other tag.

Today it's gone. What a piece of garbage Jack is. Doesn't matter though, that cat is not going back in the bag.
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Old 01-19-2018, 02:02 PM   #930
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I hate watching The View but I think Cindy McCain does have a few good minutes at the beginning. Then it goes into the typical leftist View rant about what they think about Steve Bannon and Trump and blah blah blah.

This Wolfe dude is absolute subversion. Try, convict, firing squad. He is a literal communist working for his tribe. People need to get woke on this shit.

Also, reel em in with reasoned, metered points, then put out there what you really think. The Mcains ARE leftist.
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Old 01-19-2018, 04:04 PM   #931
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#ObamaGate #Releasethememo sounds like something totally scary!

Can't wait for the next few weeks while the memo is rewritten or redacted enough for us poor civilians to digest. I doubt we're going to get anything like the truth out of this and certainly not anything that will implicate Hillary or Obama.

Heads might roll but they'll be very small heads. There's a reason Huma isn't moving forward with her divorce from Anthony Weiner and it's not so she can have a 3-some with a teenage girl and Carlos Danger. It's called spousal testimonial privilege.
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Old 01-19-2018, 05:11 PM   #932
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I have a feeling that #Releasethememo is going to wind up being a big nothing-burger. I remember when the Wiki-leeks document dumps were supposed to shake the world and they barely made a blip. I love how Juan Williams of Fox says it's just a big conspiracy theory on the right, "but that Russian Collusion on the other hand!" Laughable. That would be cool if it really did something, but with all of the false alarms we have had so far, I don't have my hopes up.

Regarding the impending shutdown, I also think it's funny (and sad) how the Democrats are holding America hostage if the government will not benefit non-Americans. That's about as anti-American as it gets, yet we all know they will get the benefit of the doubt from the Mainstream Media and the Republicans will be the bad-guys.
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Old 01-20-2018, 02:52 AM   #933
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I have a feeling that #Releasethememo is going to wind up being a big nothing-burger. I remember when the Wiki-leeks document dumps were supposed to shake the world and they barely made a blip. I love how Juan Williams of Fox says it's just a big conspiracy theory on the right, "but that Russian Collusion on the other hand!" Laughable. That would be cool if it really did something, but with all of the false alarms we have had so far, I don't have my hopes up.

Regarding the impending shutdown, I also think it's funny (and sad) how the Democrats are holding America hostage if the government will not benefit non-Americans. That's about as anti-American as it gets, yet we all know they will get the benefit of the doubt from the Mainstream Media and the Republicans will be the bad-guys.
This is the first government shutdown under a Republican President since the quick (1-2 days) one under George H.W Bush in 1990. And that was pushed mainly by Newt Gingrich, another Republican. The Democrats don't typically opt for this sort of strategy, leading me to believe it is a direct response to Trump faking a deal with them over DACA before. It may also be a response to Pence's heavy use of the tie-breaker vote as well as the way the tax bill was handled. Or the fact that Trump is so massively unlikable they are doing it out of spite and most of America agrees with that decision at this point.

The fact that the shutdown is happening despite Trump's wishes (Reagan got a shutdown to happen via veto, but that was his own decision) is kind of amazing given that Republicans control the House, the Senate and have a sitting President. It takes some massive incompetence or neglect for this to happen, especially given Trump's own words on the subject that shutdowns happen due to the guy at the top.
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Old 01-20-2018, 05:51 AM   #934
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...they are doing it out of spite
Punish the people! "Forward!" - Democrats.

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most of America agrees with that decision at this point.
You're an idiot or a liar. I'll go with both.

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Originally Posted by CNN Poll
most Americans say avoiding a shutdown is more important than passing a bill to maintain the program allowing people brought to the US illegally as children to stay, according to a new CNN poll conducted by SSRS.
Even the DNC...I mean CNN...admits that Americans DO NOT AGREE with a shutdown.

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Republicans control the House, the Senate and have a sitting President.
LOL. I'm sure you're aware of the necessity for 60 votes to pass a budget in the Senate, right Jim Acosta?
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Old 01-20-2018, 06:02 AM   #935
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It takes some massive incompetence or neglect for this to happen, especially given Trump's own words on the subject that shutdowns happen due to the guy at the top.
I think Trump is deflecting in a magnificent way. "I have to shut down the government... because of the unreasonable Democrats." Even considering there's a fair number of RINOs in those benches too. If Publicans were voting as a block this wouldn't be a problem.

It's time for Dems to face the "you're forcing the shutdown, quit being obstructionst at the expense of the country" music. After a decade of their globalization and green policies have taking us down the road of utter failure to nearly 2nd world country status, to the point CHINA of all places is seen as a dominant world power it's about time we stopped letting them pitch the ball. When the land of Ten Inman Square and Chairman Mao is being looked to for leadership over the Land of the Free and Home of the Brave are those the policies we want to continue with?

Yet historical wins in the shutdown/staredown contests have emboldened Democrats. They weren't able to lose with BO in office but this time Trump, and many, many of the American people are not going to be cowed. I think this time they're (along with the fucking swamp rat RINOs) going to blink.

If the big hold up is Immigration the Congress-critters already know what people voted Trump and other populist candidates in to office to do irt DACA and Immigration. Let's start doing it and actually enforcing the laws on the books and strengthening them in the ways which have promised. If were actually enforcing laws already there we wouldn't be in this mess to begin with.

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Old 01-20-2018, 08:42 AM   #936
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I think Trump is deflecting in a magnificent way. "I have to shut down the government... because of the unreasonable Democrats." Even considering there's a fair number of RINOs in those benches too. If Publicans were voting as a block this wouldn't be a problem.

It's time for Dems to face the "you're forcing the shutdown, quit being obstructionst at the expense of the country" music. After a decade of their globalization and green policies have taking us down the road of utter failure to nearly 2nd world country status, to the point CHINA of all places is seen as a dominant world power it's about time we stopped letting them pitch the ball. When the land of Ten Inman Square and Chairman Mao is being looked to for leadership over the Land of the Free and Home of the Brave are those the policies we want to continue with?

Yet historical wins in the shutdown/staredown contests have emboldened Democrats. They weren't able to lose with BO in office but this time Trump, and many, many of the American people are not going to be cowed. I think this time they're (along with the fucking swamp rat RINOs) going to blink.

If the big hold up is Immigration the Congress-critters already know what people voted Trump and other populist candidates in to office to do irt DACA and Immigration. Let's start doing it and actually enforcing the laws on the books and strengthening them in the ways which have promised. If were actually enforcing laws already there we wouldn't be in this mess to begin with.
The main people voting for the shutdown on the Republican side were the Freedom Caucus though. I would hardly call them RINOs, if we're going by how right-wing they are. McConnell only voted for it as a strategic vote to bring it up for debate later so it can be fixed due to how rules for that work.

I'm also not sure how a guy who said that government shutdowns are all the fault of the President in charge is deflecting brilliantly, when he's the President in charge when this went down?
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Old 01-20-2018, 10:05 AM   #937
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I'm also not sure how a guy who said that government shutdowns are all the fault of the President in charge is deflecting brilliantly, when he's the President in charge when this went down?
Maybe you struggle with literacy?

More Americans blame Democrats than Trump.

#SchumerShutdown!

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Old 01-20-2018, 10:44 AM   #938
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The fact that the shutdown is happening despite Trump's wishes (Reagan got a shutdown to happen via veto, but that was his own decision) is kind of amazing given that Republicans control the House, the Senate and have a sitting President. It takes some massive incompetence or neglect for this to happen, especially given Trump's own words on the subject that shutdowns happen due to the guy at the top.
I think the problem is that the Republicans actually care about their constituents rather than blindly following the party line every time. Oh wait, that isn't a problem. That's actually how Government is supposed to work. I wouldn't say that was incompetent at all, no.

Trump was actually willing to bend on DACA, much to the disappointment from his base. Major Trump supporters were crying for his head if he did it. And yet the Democrats still would not budge on making concessions themselves to get the bill passed. I would say THAT is major incompetence. It is certainly not bi-partisan.

The Democrats are putting the welfare of non-Americans first over Americans. That is not only incompetent, it is downright treasonous.
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Old 01-20-2018, 10:52 AM   #939
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I'm also not sure how a guy who said that government shutdowns are all the fault of the President in charge is deflecting brilliantly, when he's the President in charge when this went down?
Two things.

1) When he said the President was responsible for the shutdown he was totally correct when speaking about most previous Presidents but especially Obama.

President Obama WAS the democrats and they moved in lockstep with him. Not only was he fully informed and consulted with every piece of legislation strategy he was also a very activist legislator President in the form of Executive Orders. Maybe some Presidents wrote more EOs than Obama but few wrote more far-reaching EOs than he did.

President Trump doesn't have the luxury of enforced party unity. In fact just about everyone hates him inside and outside his party. Though it seems there have been some strides to get there I doubt it'll every be as unanimous as the democratic single front we saw with Clinton and especially Obama.

2) Trump has gone far out of his way to try and pass things that should be done by the legislative body back down to the legislative body. This is why he hasn't simply written his own EOs re: immigration or how to handle sanctuary cities or anything like that.

Not only would they result in a rash of lawsuits regardless of legality but things like these are up to CONGRESS to legislate.

The American people, a vast majority according to CNN - aka Pradva for Progressive U.S. Politics, just want the spending bill passed and don't care if it has DACA provisions or not. They want to avoid the government shutdown.

President Trump has rightly sent these decisions back to Congress. Unlike President Obama he knows it isn't the President's job to legislate. And especially not to legislate via a likely unconstitutional pseudo-citizenship granting EO with stipulations most of those impacted didn't even give lip service to complying with.

The people DEMANDING DACA and immigration rights be part of the bill are the democrats. If people stop trying to complicate the spending bill with pork and pet funding it would be a lot easier to pass and people would be able to go to the museum this weekend.
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Old 01-20-2018, 11:01 AM   #940
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The main people voting for the shutdown on the Republican side were the Freedom Caucus though. I would hardly call them RINOs, if we're going by how right-wing they are. McConnell only voted for it as a strategic vote to bring it up for debate later so it can be fixed due to how rules for that work.

I'm also not sure how a guy who said that government shutdowns are all the fault of the President in charge is deflecting brilliantly, when he's the President in charge when this went down?
How does it feel to subscribe to a political party who puts illegals over natural born citizens? Oh what's that you don't care because you're a communist piece of shit? Mccarthy was right and we should have listened.
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